Women's Dress

[Dr. Shane]

The issue of "Women's Dress" tends to be such a hot topic that it is avoided in many church circles. When it is talked about, it is from a moral and judgmental position. I would like to look at it from a more practical way.

It doesn't bother me at all when my wife dresses in a low-cut blouse or a short skirt. It doesn't even bother me when we go out together and she turns men's heads. In fact, it makes me feel like I have the prize.

Entertainment and media push women to dress sexy, show flesh and show curves. I tend to think it is anti-productive for women to do this in most cases. You have heard the old saying that there is the type of girl that guys want to date and another type of girl they want to marry. Well, I tend to believe there is a lot of truth to that.

When a woman shows a lot of flesh, men tend to think of them as sex objects. When women dress more conservatively, men tend to respect them more. That means a woman in authority over men will be much more successful because the men under her will respect her more. It means a woman working in sales will be more successful because customers will respect her intellect more. A woman that is dressed conservatively is much more likely to be judged by her speech, conduct and intelligence than her body.

[phkrause]

good points shane

pkrause

[Woody]

Quote:

"A fantastic dress, a display of gold chains and gaudy laces, is a certain indication of a weak head and a proud heart."

-- Ellen G. White 3SM 244

[D. Allan]

I wish my wife would wear something like this. Maybe she has a proud head and weak heart? More likely: I have a weak bank account.

[Woody]

I wouldn't let MY wife hide behind a grass skirt like that. It would make us look poor.

[Neil D]

Quote:

When a woman shows a lot of flesh, men tend to think of them as sex objects. When women dress more conservatively, men tend to respect them more. That means a woman in authority over men will be much more successful because the men under her will respect her more. It means a woman working in sales will be more successful because customers will respect her intellect more. A woman that is dressed conservatively is much more likely to be judged by her speech, conduct and intelligence than her body.

And what does this say about men?

That they are hard wired to think this way? A woman dresses in a way that shows "more skin" and men automatically think that the woman wants sex? {I know, guys can think that way, but not all do...Some will just look and admire and probably make comments..]

[Woody]

Quote:

look and admire

I agree with this part.

[Dr. Shane]

As a businessman I can say the glass ceiling is lower for women that show a lot of flesh than for those that dress conservatively. I have even heard women in an office setting pass judgment on other women that dress too sexy. Comments like "she should be on the corner turning tricks" may not always be mentioned but are not unfamiliar.

I know many other businessmen that will not hire a woman that dresses too sexy. While movies have portraited sexy women as having some kind of advantage in the business world, I have serious doubts that is grounded in any kind of reality. How many female bank presidents come to work showing excessive cleavage? How many female school principles wear tight skirts to work? I will not even consider hiring a female that dresses sexy when she comes to an interview. My experience with them in an office setting is that they are much less ambitious and less responsible than ladies that dress in conservative attire.

As far as men... it is not an issue of admiring or lusting. A woman doesn't show up to the work place to have her body admired. Not unless she is a model, of course. In some cases, such as waitresses and sales directed to male clients, employers may give preference to attractive, sexy women but in most businesses the boss isn't hiring a woman so she can be "admired" by men. So whether men are lusting or admiring is really a secondary issue.

[Amelia]

Quote:

I wish my wife would wear something like this. Maybe she has a proud head and weak heart? More likely: I have a weak bank account.

Hummm if you wish she would wear that, do you suppose she would wish you to wear the outfit in the back?

[Gerr]

I wish my wife would wear something like this. Maybe she has a proud head and weak heart? More likely: I have a weak bank account.

If my wife wore that, I'd be 50 paces ahead or behind!!!

Gerry

[carolaa]

Sometimes I really wonder how those models can hold their heads up and keep from laughing. They must train their minds to be far away, like at the bank cashing their fat paycheck.

[cricket]

Yawn. Another thread about how and why women shouldn't dress too sexily because it makes them look stupid and as if they WANT sex! !!!!

I look forward to the day when people everywhere will be naked all the time and clothing considered a necessity only to keep the extremeties from catching cold.

Time to put everyone on a level playing field, I say! Bring on the nudes!

[fccool]

hehe carolla! I do watch Project Runway with my fiance, and its hilarious. But I do appreciate creative people and it definitely a show that celebrates this aspect of us... unfortunately woman's wear is today is to the point of cultural obsession. I think you can tell the view being expressed by fashion industry that all men are the same , therefore it is fitting for them to wear the same stuff... hmm let's dress them in suits and put a leash around their necks! heheheheh. I'm just poking fun, don't get offended.

But on the extreme opposite I think that in places like Miami, where I lived quite a bit, many men are desensitized to the point that even looking at naked female body does not provoke them to sin. On the other side, no matter how much clothing women wear, the men will eventually undress them with their minds. So, I think it is a cultural issue, as well as an issue of the human nature.

To illustrate that extreme, in one of the conservative churches in Miami, the pastor told a cellist not to play in church orchestra anymore because the position of cello provokes men to sin. Now, is that cellist's fault that men in the church are perverts to the point of... well I'll abstain from that comment.

I hope you can see where I am coming from here. Our view of sexuality is not natural IMO, it is learned. There are cultures outside of our own who hardly wear anything and have no problems with lust, and there are cultures such as our own who have a great deal of problem with lust, because it is on lust that our advertising agencies exploit today. The message for women is - if you want to be desirable, you have to be "sexy". The message for men is .... this is what's "sexy". All of it is just to sell something.

I remember some while ago, I was a DP for an ad for a reputable hot tub company. The director's reasoning for dropping the water level below girl's chest... well I will abstain from that comment too . So the same businesses that insist that women are to dress well so that they are not viewed as sex objects hire companies that insist that the women should undress to brand their products so that they sell (sex sells . So it's hard for me to separate one from another.

[cricket]

"Our view of sexuality is not natural, IMO, it is learned."

Thank you for saying this! Finally a man who admits that the typical western "sex drive" is NOT natural, but driven by media and culture.

Again, I say, bring on the nudes!

[fccool]

I admit that because I do work in advertising industry. And I have refused to work on numerous projects that I know will exploit sexuality. Luckily for me, my boss is a Christian man.

[Dr. Shane]

The intent of the thread was not to look judgmentally upon what women wear. It is to discuss 1) how entertainment and advertising convinces many women to dress sexy and 2) when they do dress sexy it impedes their success.

[carolaa]

the pastor told a cellist not to play in church orchestra anymore because the position of cello provokes men to sin. Now, is that cellist's fault that men in the church are perverts

One woman I know was told by a man that when she played the piano in church, it turned him on. Apparently, she wiggled around on the bench when she played with expression. Wierd.

[fccool]

Shane, I realize that, and I think I did present my views in scope of your intent. If you don't believe so, I'd like to see where I went off topic.

I simply pointed out the duplicity of businesses who advocate "Dress for success", yet employ sexual exploitation to advertise the products they push. Today, virtually all of the businesses advertise, and many use sex to sell to both men and women.

[Dr. Shane]

An argument can certainly be made that in retail sales and advertising women dressing sexy helps their careers. Although many businesses do not sell directly to the public. In the financial, industrial, manufacturing, construction, health-care, technology and education sectors I think the conservatively dressed women go a lot further than their sexy-dressed counterparts.

[fccool]

Shane,

I think you are missing what I'm trying to hit at here. I'm all FOR business women dressing up well, especially when they are in high position of business authority. The conflict in my mind comes from actions of such women to utilize advertising that over all reduces women to sexual objects that people use to sell things. It does not matter what industry you are in... you will be selling products and services and utilizing advertising. I do encounter women who write that stuff and who are dressed fairly well and would never would agree to appear in ads they write.

For example. ad shuch as this one would have women envolved in all aspects of production of it... from creative, to paying for it, to acting in it, to selling the final product. So I know what you are saying here, but you can't expect me to believe that the female executives believe in "Dressing for Success" when they pull something like this... Please don't click on the link if you are offended by partial nudity:

ridiculous ad

[Dr. Shane]

I am using women in the workplace simply to show how women are perceived because of how they dress. This perception is not limited to the work place. When a woman goes out into public dressed conservatively she is taken more serious regardless if she is trying to buy a car at a car lot, trying to exchange an item she purchased at Sears, requesting her local supermarket to carry a new product or complaining at a restaurant about the service she received.

Advertising and the entertainment industry push women to show more flesh and dress sexy yet when they do so they are actually drawing attention away from their characters and abilities and placing it on the physical appearance. As a result, people take them less seriously.

[fccool]

NOW we are on the same page!

[D. Allan]

Yawn. Another thread about how and why women shouldn't dress too sexily because it makes them look stupid and as if they WANT sex! !!!!

I look forward to the day when people everywhere will be naked all the time and clothing considered a necessity only to keep the extremeties from catching cold.

Time to put everyone on a level playing field, I say! Bring on the nudes!

right on, cricket! i'm with you on that. how can we help bring about that day?? shed our own exo-skeletons!

what is REALLY beautiful is a naked soul. a naked spirit. such as children have. most of the encrustation on our souls is for protection, i guess - yet it does obstruct the view of wonderful scenery!

[Woody]

Wouldn't that be quite the "playing field" dAb ...

I would even come out to "play" if it was THAT "level".

[olger]

Seems pretty simple to me. God will hold two people accountable in judgement.

1) Those who lusted

2) Those who enticed