My wife predicts that...

[olger]

..racism will increase if Obama is elected.

Now it might seem like racism would decrease if Obama wins the election, but perhaps the opposite is true..

What is your prediction?

oG

[Woody]

I've personally never witnessed racism against blacks. So, I don't expect to now see it if Obama is elected. But, I think there might be an increase of what is called reverse discrimination ... or discrimination against whites.

[David Koot]

Well, Redwood, Lazarus says you are black. He said SDA is a small world, and he knows you are a bro. So you are saying that you have never experienced racism against blacks? Wonder what Laz would have to say about that.

[Woody]

OH ... Yeah , Laz and I are bros ... that's for sure. No doubt about it. But, Laz will forgive me. He knows I speak my mind. We is cool.

[carolaa]

Actually, I've wondered the same thing. And not just about increased racism. I see him as the next possible JFK. He's already had threats on his life.

[Bravus]

You guys in America (like everyone everywhere) can give in to this or you can fight it. Your choice (every day).

[David Koot]

Tell me, mate, how's the situation in Oz when it comes to race relations?

[Bravus]

There are two dimensions to the issue here: the indigenous people (I know America has an indigenous population too, but it seems as though racism against Native Americans comes a long way down the spectrum there) and recent immigrants.

Race relations with both groups had gone backward over the past 11 years or so under the Howard government. Howard was a master of what we call 'dog whistle politics'. A dog whistle is too high to be heard by humans but gets the message to the dogs. Howard was good at sending out messages that appealed to racists, but in a subliminal way so he could claim not to be. He stripped the Aboriginal people of their organising body, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, and refused to apologise for past abuses of Aboriginal people by the government. In this he was out of step with the values of the majority of Australians. The new Rudd government made the apology one of its first orders of business and is working very hard on reconciliation and Aboriginal welfare, but there is still a huge amount of work to be done.

There has been racism toward each new wave of immigrants - the Irish, Chinese, Italians, Greeks, Lebanese and now Iraqis and Iranians. Ironically, sometimes it's the wave before that is most racist toward the next wave. Howard and right-wing shock jocks in Sydney managed to create race riots in Cronulla in Sydney a couple of years ago.

So I'd say on balance Australia has about the same level of racism as the US: that is to say, the majority of people in the country are people of goodwill who abhor racism and foster harmony, but there is a vocal minority who promote division and hatred.

My point above, by the way, was kind of an 'If olger's wife is right, then what?' If it were true that electing Obama would lead to a racist reaction, is that a reason to elect him, not elect him, what? I don't know, but I do know that I'm committed to fighting the racist forces in this country, and would encourage my American friends to make the same commitment.

[olger]

But, I think there might be an increase of what is called reverse discrimination ... or discrimination against whites.

That's her prediction too.

As always,

oG

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

But, I think there might be an increase of what is called reverse discrimination ... or discrimination against whites.

That's her prediction too.

As always,

oG

Whites sometimes fear that when in positions of authority Black people will treat them how they (whites) treated blacks. It's only natural to fear what what you have perpetrated.

There's the same fear in our churches.

[lazarus]

I've personally never witnessed racism against blacks.

I'm sure you have personally witnessed racism against whites though.

[DrWhoCompanion]

I have certainly seen racism. It's subtle, usually, but it's there. I'm really not sure how Obama's administration would be a catalyst for an upswing, or "reverse racism," which to me is a meaningless term. Racism is racism, rather it's aimed at Blacks, Whites, or people with a Purple or Green genotype.

Let's not cower and give in to the ignorant. If the People elect Obama, he should be our man.

Also, I've not been a big fan of Australia's Howard. His politics sharply contrast my own.

[lazarus]

I'm committed to fighting the racist forces in this country, and would encourage my American friends to make the same commitment.

Its not often that I hear someone make such a positive statement concerning their opposition to racism. I really appreciate it Bravus. That's encouraging. Thank you much.

[Woody]

Affirmative Action Against Whites (AAAW) is alive and well NOW. It will only be further supported if Obama is elected. That is fact. It is not fear. It IS reality.

[olger]

"God hath made of one blood all nations of men."

[lazarus]

So lets have 350 years of white folks being the victims or AAAW and we'll call it even.

[Woody]

Can't we all just get along and treat each others as equals instead of trying to get 'even'.??

[olger]

Yeah!

[Bravus]

I think that was kind of Laz's point.

But the 'discrimination against whites' thing is a little more complicated than it might appear on the surface. If it can be shown that, for example, the reason black students get lower grades than white students is chronic underfunding of their urban schools rather than any intrinsic deficit in the students themselves, then there may be good arguments made for the fairness of (a) growing the funding of those school districts at a faster rate than that of nearby largely white suburban school districts, as a way of beginning to erase old unfairnesses and ( letting some of those black students into university with lower entrance scores, for the same reason. It's just a little but disingenuous to say 'OK, we've been benefitting from discrimination for hundreds of years, and have massive wealth and privileges in part derived from that - but now lets everyone just start from this point right here and be treated exactly the same' and consider that to be fairness. Yes?

So affirmative action is not about 'getting even', but about perhaps getting to a point where everyone starts the race at the same line.

[Bravus]

(and yes, in many of these cases race is actually a proxy for scioeconomic status (SES), and it might be fairer if we had affirmative action for (economically) poor students of all races. but the very fact that there is such a strong correlation between race and SES itself kind of makes the point that there's work still to be done)

[Woody]

All I know is that I wish I was 100% Black when I go to get hired. It doesn't matter what your ability or education is ... as long as you are black ... YOU get Hired.

[lazarus]

Can't we all just get along and treat each others as equals instead of trying to get 'even'.??

LOL We've been sayin' that for hundreds of years but y'all wouldn't listen!!!

Now that things are little more equal y'all claiming victim status.

LOL

[Woody]

LOL

[Bravus]

Hmmm - is there a breakdown of black vs white unemployment stats anywhere? I suspect there are a fair few black people looking for work right now who'd be amazed to hear that all they need to do is show up.

[lazarus]