Wrong to Vote Obama because...

[Kountzer]

Who really cares what people on this website think about Obama and Wright. This site has the footprint the size of a flea.

[Woody]

Who really cares what people on this website think about Obama and Wright. This site has the footprint the size of a flea.

Some of us care. And I think Stan would differ with your characterization.

Also, on the news tonight they said that the Super Delegates are VERY focused on this issue of Obama and Wright.

[John317]

...I could walk down the street and do a survey about who knows anything about the new black panthers, and what they believe, and I'd probably draw mostly blank stares.DB

A lot of people today never even heard of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and early 70s, but back when it was happening, most everyone knew of them.

Then there's the fact that so many in our society don't pay much attention to anything unless it actually affects them in some very personal way. It helps if you have a parent who is interested and considers these things important. My dad was always interested in American history and politics and would talk about them and read books to us, so I just grew up paying attention to them. I'm glad he did because it makes life so much more interesting and fun.

[Kountzer]

Quote:

Also, on the news tonight they said that the Super Delegates are VERY focused on this issue of Obama and Wright.

I skim the political news as it relates to Obama. I still haven't grasped the whole Obama for President thing. If he wins I will be highly surprised. If he loses, oh well, back to life as usual.

DB

[John317]

... If he wins I will be highly surprised. If he loses, oh well, back to life as usual.

If Obama wins, I'll be very surprised too. He still could. Anything can happen. But if he does, he'll be my president and I'll wish him the very best.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: D_Bishop

...I could walk down the street and do a survey about who knows anything about the new black panthers, and what they believe, and I'd probably draw mostly blank stares.DB

Quote:

A lot of people today never even heard of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and early 70s, but back when it was happening, most everyone knew of them.

I remember them. I was a young, naive teenager then. I still knew a lot of the stuff they advocated would never work.

[wuoyr]

Then there's the fact that so many in our society don't pay much attention to anything unless it actually affects them in some very personal way.

[John317]

... Khalid Mohammed, whose picture is on that website you provided a link to, was from the 5th ward section of Houston. He went to Wheatley High School, a famous predominantely black high school in that area. How he evolved into the radical islam stuff he was noted for is a good question. He died a few years ago. I've talked to some people who remember him in high school.DB

I read something about him on a site yesterday, which I'll post here. You might find it interesting, although you may have already read parts of it. It is surprising to me how he went so quickly from being a Christian studying theology and working at a Methodist church to becoming a follower of Louis Farrakhan and the Black Muslims. You are right about his being from Houston:

inister Khallid Abdul Muhammad, born Harold Moore, Jr. by his parents, blessed this earth on January 12th, 1948 in Houston, Texas. He was the second? of six children to the late Harold Moore, Sr. and Lottie B. Moore. His Aunt Momma Carrie Moore Vann in Houston, Texas reared him. Minister Khallid Muhammad, affectionately known as "butch" by the family attended Bruce Elementary School, E.O.Smith Junior High School and all Black Phyllis Wheatley High School in Texas. At Phyllis Wheatley, Brother Khallid was an esteemed member of Stagecrafters, a group of exceptional students where he developed debate and drama skills under direction of Ms. Vernell Lillie. Minister Khallid as a young man would preach to cars from his porch as they passed by on the highway and was president of Houston Methodist Youth Fellowship. Khallid was a star quarterback, team captain of his high school football team, an eagle scout, a class officer and a star debater.

THE CONVERSION

Upon graduating high school, our bold and shining Black prince won a scholarship Dillard University in Louisiana to pursue his degree in theological studies. At this time he ministered at Sloan Memorial Methodist Church. While at Dillard University young Khallid first heard Minister Louis Farrahkan, the National Representative of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. He had a big Afro and a huge medallion of Malcolm X around his neck. After hearing Minister Farrakhan speak Khallid Abdul Muhammad joined the Nation of Islam under the leadership of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Immediately Brother Harold X, as he was known at that time became renown as a top recruiter in the south for the Black Muslims. Dr. Khallid continued his studies and graduated from Pepperdine University in Los Angeles California. He then was the recipient of an academic fellowship, and matriculated to do "Intensive Studies" at Harvard, Yale, and Columbia Universities. The skills of higher education as well as his fighting spirit made Minister Khallid a valuable weapon to the Nation of Islam and the Black Nation in general.

THE EVOLUTION

When the Messenger of Allah, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad departed from amongst us in 1975, Minister Khallid Abdul Muhammad kept on fighting. At this time he was known as Dr. Malik Rushaddin. He traveled throughout Africa and trained in revolutionary movements with a focus on freeing apartheid ridden South Africa (Azania) from white oppression. When Minister Farrakhan decided to rebuild the Nation of Islam in 1978. Minister Khallid was right there with him when there were just a few. Minister Khallid Muhammad served as western regional minister of the Nation of Islam and leader of Mosque #27, which made lightning progress under his leadership. In 1983 Minister Louis Farrakhan named him Khallid, which has the historical interpretation of "great warrior" after the great follower of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Khallid ibn Walid. Like this great Islamic general Khallid Muhammad was called the "sword of Allah"..

[Kountzer]

In matters of spirituality and religion there are some charismatic and beguiling speakers out there. If one is not grounded in the word it is possible to get swept away.

[John317]

That is exactly right. In that sense, I can understand how this could have happened. But I also think it happened because there was something in what he heard Farrakhan say that struck a cord, something that he was yearning to hear. I would love to know what that was.

Why did he give up Christ for Farrakhan? I'm sure he was told that he didn't need to give up Christ-- but only make a small adjustment, because, after all, Muslims do believe in Christ; they just don't believe He is who the New Testament says He is, the unique Son of God.

[Woody]

The question is ... What would Ellen White say about all of this?

Quote:

"The Lord would have His people bury political questions. On these themes silence is eloquence. Christ calls upon His followers to come into unity on the pure gospel principles which are plainly revealed in the word of God. We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political schemes... The people of God are not to vote to place such men in office; for when they do this, THEY ARE PARTAKERS WITH THEM OF THE SINS WHICH THEY COMMIT WHILE IN OFFICE." (Fundamentals of Christian Education, emphasis supplied, p. 475)

Pretty Strong instructions for each of us. Aren't they?

[Kountzer]

That is exactly right. In that sense, I can understand how this could have happened. But I also think it happened because there was something in what he heard Farrakhan say that struck a cord, something that he was yearning to hear. I would love to know what that was.

Why did he give up Christ for Farrakhan? I'm sure he was told that he didn't need to give up Christ-- but only make a small adjustment, because, after all, Muslims do believe in Christ; they just don't believe He is who the New Testament says He is, the unique Son of God.

Here's my .02 on this. Even back in the mid to late 60s, when Khalid Mohammed was in school and college, people could sense things were changing, most notably for the worst. They wanted and still want a cutting edge, advant guasrd msg from the church, counteract the forboding and fear. Most main stream churches do not offer such a message. the most radical and relevant msg around is the 3 angels msgs found in the sda church. Most people don't know about this message. Anyway, along comes the nation of islam with a msg and doctrine that appears to be cutting edge. Really it is a lot of islamic yadda, and another form of salvation by works. People hear what the NOI is saying and buy into it.

[John317]

The question is ... What would Ellen White say about all of this?

Quote:

"The Lord would have His people bury political questions. On these themes silence is eloquence. Christ calls upon His followers to come into unity on the pure gospel principles which are plainly revealed in the word of God. We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political schemes... The people of God are not to vote to place such men in office; for when they do this, THEY ARE PARTAKERS WITH THEM OF THE SINS WHICH THEY COMMIT WHILE IN OFFICE." (Fundamentals of Christian Education, emphasis supplied, p. 475)

Pretty Strong instructions for each of us. Aren't they?

Yes, I agree. I have read those things before. In fact, I read that only a few months ago.

[John317]

What'daya think of this? Jane Fonda is supporting Obama for president. Not a good thing for Obama if you remember the time she went to North Vietnam and supported the enemy firing on our pilots. I was in the anti-war movement myself at the time and even I didn't even like what she did. I hated the war but I wasn't about to go to Hanoi and sit on one of their aircraft guns and pretend to shoot down American pilots like John McCain.

Rush reported it this way:

RUSH: I mentioned just before the conclusion of the previous hour, that Jane Fonda has endorsed Barack Obama. Here is how it happened. It was on the street in New York City, TMZ, the celebrity -- Well, what would you call TMZ? It's the celebrity network that follows their criminal pursuits, in part. They ran into Jane Fonda on the streets of New York, and an unidentified reporter. This is Web quality here, but this is a little exchange between the reporter for TMZ and Jane Fonda.

REPORTER 1: Jane, who are you voting for?

REPORTER 2: Who gets your vote?

FONDA: Obama.

REPORTER 2: Oh, my God. Heaven help us all.

RUSH: The reporter for TMZ said, "Oh, God. Heaven help us all." Obviously the reporter is an Obama supporter.

RUSH: Ladies and gentlemen, this cannot be helpful for Barack Obama. Here's Jane Fonda. We all know, over in North Vietnam, in Hanoi, was sitting in an anti-aircraft gun, pretending to be shooting down American pilots -- brave, handsome, American pilots. Traitorous Hanoi Jane! Now she comes out and endorses Obama. If Obama's planning on any crossover vote, this may complicate things. She may have been sitting, ladies and gentlemen, at the same anti-aircraft gun that North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners used to shoot down Senator McCain's plane, who just happens to be the Republican presidential nominee!

[olger]

Just another spoiled, confused hollywood child who should have been disciplined more often. The many marriages of her father certainly didn't help matters, and I feel for anyone who's parent commits suicide. But others have had it as bad, and worse and went on to become productive citizens.

[Neil D]

Just another spoiled, confused hollywood child who should have been disciplined more often.

[John317]

I am wondering if anyone can guess which candidates and which party Al-Qaeda wants to win the US election.

During the Civil War, the Confederacy wanted the Democratic party to win in 1864 because their candidate promised to make peace with the Southern states. The democrats would have stopped the war and kept the North from winning. It would have been tragic. It almost happened.

This time we face similar situation. If the Americans are pulled out of Iraq too soon, it would certainly mean choas, genocide, and an opportunity for Al-Qaeda and Iran to increase their power and influence in the region. If Obama means what he says about going back in if Al-Qaeda establishes itself in Iraq, that would probably result in American returning to Iraq during an Obama administration. And if they had to return under those conditions, the situation faced by Americans forces would far worse than they are now.