Hillary won Pennsylvania, according to CNN

[Bravus]

Shane, the Republicans (like olger) are cheering for revotes in Michigan or for those votes to count somewhere. Their motivation is that they think Hillary is the weaker candidate and will lose to McCain. But as I noted, they are all about responsibility and following the rules, normally. But in this case breaking the rules seems to offer political advantage.

[jasd]

>>Obama was playing by the rules.<<

Umm, not really... he had his [active] surrogates; moreover, he urged his supporters to vote “uncommitted” – that he might benefit.

>>Since the Democrat National Committee (DNC)...<<

That translates, primarily, to Dean, yes? Blep. Anyways,

kudos to Clinton who disregarded ‘screaming-eeeaahhhh!-Dean’ and left her name on the ballots. It may be that she was more farsighted than Dean, et al - in thinking that the Dem’crats of Florida and Michigan will vigorously lobby the convention rather than being disenfranchised. If the convention were to be brokered – it may be that Florida and Michigan will weigh upon the super-delegates’ decision (not to mention her monopoly of Major States won...; those same States which bear heavily upon the voting in the Electoral College).

Note - of Florida: ("More than 1.7 million people voted in a Jan. 29 primary, which Clinton won handily, but the DNC said that vote didn't count since party rules didn't allow a primary before Feb. 5. Neither candidate campaigned in the state in the months leading up to the election.")

That is with ‘bama’s name appearing ‘longside Clinton’s on the Florida ballot.

I suppose, given that Clinton handily won both states (notwithstanding Dean et al), the ‘bama campaign would vigorously lobby against those disenfranchised voters of Florida and Michigan – with their combined delegate count of 366 – being represented in Denver this fall.

>>...he would have been wasting his time and money to campaign there.<<

Is that why ‘bama’s campaign opposed a do-over of the Michigan vote? I thought the franchise was a verah big deal with Dem’crats (y'know, hangin chads, and all....) - Dean, notwithstanding.

>>The DNC needs to stand by their decision...<<

That sounds so principled – would that the Dem'crats were normally – so inclined!

>>...or such threats in the future will not be taken seriously by state parties.<<

The ‘National Party’ prefers to disenfranchise voters, rather than accede to State prerogatives? Sheesh! we should all be anarchists.

>>In the issue of the Pennsylvania comment, normally the nominee is chosen long before the Pennsylvania primary. Logic only tells us that the chosen candidate is going to win the state's primary.<<

Umm,

"No general election is won without Pennsylvania." --Senator Bob Casey, Jr.

One supposes that ‘bama supporters hope Casey’s remark will fail to register with the super-delegates.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Clinton now leads the popular vote.

I had heard that. More people have voted for her than Obama. Interesting. It should make the super delegates think twice.

This is not true....Clinton now leads in the unregulated popular vote. But in regulated popular votes, Obama leads....

It is in those states that didn't follow DNC rules and deliberately violated those rules that Clinton wants to pull into the fray. She again shows just how badly she wants this election that she is willing to bend rules and play dirty tricks. If it was up to the people, and it is, the majority have said "that's enough. Stop with the dirty slimy politicing. Stick to the issues or be forced to retire."

[Woody]

Quote:

This is not true....Clinton now leads in the unregulated popular vote. But in regulated popular votes, Obama leads....

I think you have that backwards my friend.

If you take into account ... those states that it was regulated that the votes didn't count .... Clinton leads. But in the Unregulated states where the DNC didn't interfer with regulations of disallowing the votes .... Obama leads.

This regulation by the DNC means that millions of voters are no longer allowed their constitutional right to vote. Hardly seems like a Democratic thing to do .... But then that is the Democratic Party for ya.

[Dr. Shane]

Many people in Michigan and Florida didn't even vote because they knew their votes wouldn't count. It is completely unreasonable to count the votes in those states without letting both states vote over. That brings up the issue of who would pay for such a revote.

[Woody]

OTOH ... IF they allow a revote there might be a revolt.

[jasd]

>>Many people in Michigan and Florida didn't even vote because they knew their votes wouldn't count.<<

Even the most astute campaign managers rely upon polls. Polls, by definition, arrive at reasonable conclusions by doing no more than tracking the pulse of certain of John and Jane Q Public.

>>It is completely unreasonable to count the votes in those states without letting both states vote over.<<

One would think so – especially, should there be an expectation that a concerned party will lose the do-over – as indicated by the initial vote.

Remembering: that a super-delegate’s vote, theoretically, is independent from the cumulative Dem’cratic results of the several individual State primaries – the above observations may, justifiably, reflect upon his or her decision, come August. That said,

the dynamics seem currently to be breaking for Clinton.

[Dr. Shane]

Exit polls in Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania have shown hundreds of Republicans are crossing over to vote for Hillary because they believe she will be easier to beat in November. Even with those Republicans voting for her she barely got the win she needed in Pennsylvania.

[jasd]

Ahh, chaos theory a la Limbaugh.

Anyway, come the general..., write in jasd

I’m so far right I meet all the lefty-loos – in the tall grass...; otherwise,

your choices, so far, are Dem’crat, Dem’crat, and Repub’crat.

tic

[Woody]

The more I see Obama ... the more I like Hillary. And believe me ... I never thought I would say that I liked Hillary. But it just goes to show what poor choices we have in this race.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Ahh, chaos theory a la Limbaugh.

Limbaugh is actually encouraging his listeners to vote in the Democratic primary and vote for Hillary in order to drag the primary process out. Apart from that, exit polls are showing that many Republicans are doing exactly that.

One may note that I voted in the Democratic primary and caucus but I voted for Obama both times. Obviously I was not following Limbaugh's instructions.

[Woody]

Shame on you Shane. Shame. Hillary is clearly the better person. Get with the Republican agenda.

[olger]

Shane, the Republicans (like olger) are cheering for revotes in Michigan or for those votes to count somewhere. Their motivation is that they think Hillary is the weaker candidate and will lose to McCain. But as I noted, they are all about responsibility and following the rules, normally. But in this case breaking the rules seems to offer political advantage.

Hi Bravus. Olger reminds you that he is an independent who has only voted once in his life.

regards

[Bravus]

Ah, fair enough. Perhaps I should rephrase to 'right-leaning independents and Republicans'.

[olger]

YEAH.

I'm kinda conservative, I guess.

[Stan]

YEAH.

I'm kinda conservative, I guess.

WOW that caught me by surprise

Did not see that coming.............. :)

[CyberGuy]

-- Sen. Hillary Clinton will win the Pennsylvania Democratic primary, CNN projects.

Fox news called it first.

55 percent for Hillary Clinton

45 percent for Hussain Obama

Hilliary got her double digit win.

Hilliary leads in the popular vote now as well.

If you count Florida and Michigan that is.

[Bravus]

Yep: if you count what doesn't count, she's definitely winning.

(And 'Hussain Obama' is irrelevant and unworthy tactics, IMO)

[Dr. Shane]

Obama's name wasn't on the ballot in Michigan. Obama didn't campaign in Florida - Hillary did. Hillary needed to win Florida just to give her some kind of momentum, even knowing the votes wouldn't count. That is the only reason she campaigned there. She was also ahead of Obama by 20 points in Pennsylvania before Obama stated campaigning there. So that gives us an idea of how much campaigning in a state can change the figures.