Latest Gallup Poll Shows Tie Between Obama and McCain

[John317]

USAElection 2008Gallup DailyAmericasNorthern America

PRINCETON, NJ -- The latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update on the presidential election finds John McCain and Barack Obama exactly tied at 45% among registered voters nationwide.

Voter preferences had been fairly evenly divided for the past week, with Obama generally holding a slight advantage of two or three percentage points. This is the first time since Gallup's May 31-June 4 rolling average that Obama does not have at least a slim advantage over McCain. Obama's largest lead to date has been seven points. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)

Since the changes from Tuesday's results are well within the margin of sampling error, it is unclear at this point if today's results represent a further tightening of the race. The last two individual nights of polling have, however, been more favorable to McCain than what Gallup has shown for most of June. -- Jeff Jones

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108376/Gallup-Daily-Obama-McCain-Tied-45.aspx

Also see: http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/ral...2-points-ahead/

[Woody]

This is good news. There is a movement away from Obama's leftist agenda.

[John317]

Yes, I agree. But of course we can expect a lot of movement up and down over the next few months. Past elections show that the candidate who's out in front in June often loses the general election in November. Right now it looks like Obama is in front by about 5 to 7 points.

[Dr. Shane]

Well, I like both candidates. I see advantages and disadvantages in both of them. I haven't decided who I am going to vote for yet.

[Jeannieb43]

There is a movement away from Obama's leftist agenda.

"Leftist" used to be a bad word. [When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child, but now that I have become a [wo]man, I've put away childish things...]. When I was a child, there really was a "Left Wing" [e.g., "Fifth Column"] to worry about in America. Not so today.

"Leftist" in today's world merely means "centrist." The Radical Rightwing has tipped the political spectrum so precariously to the right, based on pseudoreligious controls, that anything to the left of Radical Republicanism is what we need today, actually; it's centrist.

I might say that personally either McCain or Obama would appeal to me. However, we don't have the luxury of voting only for the candidate's personality; we must look to the political machine behind them. McCain has stated on the record, on TV, in a clip which I have watched, that his choices for the Supreme Court will be in the pattern of Justice Roberts and Justice Scalia. Both of them are radical rightwing, who have promised to tear down the wall of separation between church and state, and have promised to revoke a woman's right to control over her own body. It's there in black and white. There's no "pussy-footing" about it. McCain is beholden to the radical rightwing. He's in their pockets.

And a Supreme Court Justice is appointed for life. There are three Justices presently ready for retirement or possibly death; so the upcoming president will possibly stack the Supreme Court for the next 40 years. Not since FDR's stacking of the Supreme Court have we seen any president with this much power to tilt legal decisions according to his wishes.

We need to choose carefully in voting for the next president of the United States.

[carolaa]

I was just reading somewhere this week that Dukakis was 17 points ahead of HW in July - the point being how things can change dramatically by November. At any rate, it will be interesting.

[John317]

This from Wikipedia:

In politics, "left-wing", "the political left", or "the Left" are terms that refer to politics that seek to reform or abolish existing social hierarchies and promote a more equal distribution of wealth and privilege. In general, the left advocates for a society where all people have an equal opportunity, which they often describe as a "level playing field". Toward this end, most people who consider themselves left-wing support labor unions. The term "the Left" can encompass a number of ideologies, including Progressivism, Social liberalism, Social democracy, Left-libertarianism, Socialism, Syndicalism, Marxism, Communism, and mainstream Anarchism.

See also: http://jonjayray.110mb.com/whatare.html

The way I am using "Leftist," and the way it is typically used in political and economic discussions-- which tends to see it as synonymous with socialist or "progressive," to use Fidel Castro's term for Obama-- the US has really never had a President who fell within that category, although FDR's vice-president, Wallace, did qualify as a Leftist. Not even the liberal Jimmy Carter was a Leftist.

About Wallace, the record is: "Wallace had said that if he became President, he would appoint Laurence Duggan as Secretary of State and Harry Dexter White as Secretary of Treasury. Both Duggan and White were Communist sympathizers who are now known to have been Soviet spies. Their appointment could have been a major victory for Soviet intelligence."

[John317]

Yes, you're right. I think this will prove the most interesting and important election since the contest between Carter and Reagan. Americans won't be able to say that both candidates are virtually the same.

I'll be in Denver to watch and photograph what goes on there during the Democratic Convention.

[carolaa]

My boss's wife will be there too.

[John317]

Ten of thousands are being encouraged to come and "recreate '68," which I remember so well.

Question: Why is it that the Leftists are always the ones who are involved in these kinds of actions?

(By Leftists, I means socialists of different types, anarchists, etc. Google: The Militant, Socialist International Review, Socialist Workers Party.)

One link about "recreate '68:" http://www.notmytribe.com/2008/recreate-...ngle-83162.html

Look for confrontations. That will be the fundamental purpose there.

[John317]

...We need to choose carefully in voting for the next president of the United States.

Indeed.

Obama wants to raise income taxes on those who are making $250,000 per year, so that the government will get 50% of their income. That means the government will take 50 cents out of every dollar that such people work for.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080617/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_economy

He also wants to raise capital gains tax-- not the best thing to do when the economy is sluggish or not doing so hot.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/politics&id=6087726

Socialists typically favor a forced redistribution of wealth.

America has to decide if the country wants to go that way.

[carolaa]

Question: Why is it that the Leftists are always the ones who are involved in these kinds of actions?

Um...because the Right already have it just like they like it, so why would they want to be part of a change movement. Leftists are anti-establishment; it's just who they are.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Question: Why is it that the Leftists are always the ones who are involved in these kinds of actions?

Um...because the Right already have it just like they like it, so why would they want to be part of a change movement. Leftists are anti-establishment; it's just who they are.

I am just going by history. When was the last time the US experienced large, massive political actions or demonstrations at either Republican or Democratic conventions, by those on "the Right" of the political spectrum? It simply has not happened in modern times.

Remember Chicago at 1968, for instance? Who was involved there? And who in 1972, in Washington, D.C. and elsewhere? I was personally involved in the political demonstrations of 1972 as a member of the Young Socialist Alliance, the youth wing of the Socialist Workers Party. I know the Leftist agenda. I got out of those activities when I became SDA.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: John317

Question: Why is it that the Leftists are always the ones who are involved in these kinds of actions?

Um...because the Right already have it just like they like it, so why would they want to be part of a change movement. Leftists are anti-establishment; it's just who they are.

actually, the history of the Left is for the common people, while the Right is traditionalist, establishment. From Wikipedia...

The terms Right and Left refer to political affiliations which originated early in the French Revolutionary era, and referred originally to the seating arrangements in the various legislative bodies of France. The aristocracy sat on the right of the Speaker (traditionally the seat of honor) and the commoners sat on the Left, hence the terms Right-wing politics and Left-wing politics.

Originally, the defining point on the ideological spectrum was the ancien régime ("old order"). "The Right" thus implied support for aristocratic or royal interests, and the church, while "The Left" implied opposition to the same. Because the political franchise at the start of the revolution was relatively narrow, the original "Left" represented mainly the interests of the bourgeoisie, the rising capitalist class. At that time, support for laissez-faire capitalism and Free markets were counted as being on the left; today in most Western countries these views would be characterized as being on the Right. Similarly, the opposition to capitalism was counted as being as "Right-wing", whereas now it is likely to be characterised as "Left-wing".

As the franchise expanded over the next several years, it became clear that there was something to the left of that original "Left": the precursors of socialism and communism, advocating the interests of wage earners and peasants.

It's interesting that what used to be considered "left" wing politics, are now solidly in the right section...Clearly, once society moved tothe left, it grew in understanding and adopted the new Left...and became the more central and finally right side of the political spectrum. So, Left is progressive and Right is more..."stuck in the mud"

[John317]

Sure, communists and socialists appear to favor the common ordinary worker. But that is only appearances. Maybe we've forgotten a lot of history. Personally I think the one who favors individual liberty is the one who really favors the common ordinary worker.

Fidel Castro said he favors Obama, and he calls him "a progressive." That says a lot. Castro knows what's going on. I hope Americans know as much as Castro before November.

Based on your knowledge of socialists and Far Left politics, would you say a person could be an SDA and at the same time a member of the Socialist Workers Party or any other American socialist faction?

[Neil D]

Sure, communists and socialists appear to favor the common ordinary worker. But that is only appearances. Maybe we've forgotten a lot of history.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Does it matter? If so, what are your parameters for NOT caring? IOWs, what would happen, in your opinion if they were? Or more to MY point, what would it matter if they could be? Deranged thinking? dysfunctionalism? becoming used to the goverment paying them $$$$ and watching the goverment go bankrupt? What would it matter to you if these people were SDS and part of the Socialist Workers Party?

[/quote']

I brought it up because I used to be a Socialist but my experience in those political groups-- knowing their underlying philosophy and agenda--I knew I could not conscientiously work to support them any longer and at the same time be a Seventh-day Adventist.

[Neil D]

And what about the SDAs in Russia who are Socialist Workers Party?

...different country and thus different values???

Tell me, John....when you get to heaven, what will you think of your association with ultra conservatives assuming that Heaven has totally different NON-ultra conservative values?

Will it matter? and if so, what will it cause you to do?

I suggest that we remember an old traditional hymm....It starts out with....

....This world is not my home.

I'm just a passin' thru...

My treasures are laid up

somewhere beyond the blue.

The angels beckon me,

from Heavens open door.

And I

just can't feel at home

in this world anymore.

[John317]

[Jeannieb43]

Just heard this on the radio today:

When Ike Eisenhower was president, the upper 1% of the population paid 90% of their income in taxes.

[iMHO, that's a good way to support the government!]

[John317]

And what about the SDAs in Russia who are Socialist Workers Party?

...different country and thus different values???

Do you know what the Socialist Workers Party is? They are atheistic. They believe strongly, militantly in dialectic materialism and promote world revolution. They are a part of the Fourth International, founded by Leon Trotsky, a Marxist-Leninist. That is not the sort of organization and philosophy that can be supported by Seventh-day Adventists who are looking for, and preparing for, the coming of Jesus Christ.

I do not know of any Christians or SDAs who are members of the Socialist Workers Party in Russia or anywhere else. Do you?

[Neil D]

personally?

No.....

But then again, do they exist in Russia? Probably...or did back before Gorbachav......

I believe that I have heard rumor of them when I was over seas....but that was long ago and far away....and I am trusting to a rumor of many years ago...that has long since turned cold as rumors/clues go....

[John317]

...Tell me, John....when you get to heaven, what will you think of your association with ultra conservatives assuming that Heaven has totally different NON-ultra conservative values?

Will it matter? and if so, what will it cause you to do?

I am sorry. It's obvious that you misunderstand me and where I am coming from.

In all due respect, may I suggest you study the beliefs and goals of groups such as the Socialist Workers Party and the Communist Revolutionary Part, etc., and then compare these with what the Bible as well as Ellen White teach. Then it should become clear to you why I cannot support those goals and philosophies. Read the pamphlets their candidates put out. You will notice that if they won the Presidency, they would eventually discourage and try to get rid of religious freedom and expression. (Of course, I realize it is not likely that one of their candidates will ever win, thank God.)

Quote:

I suggest that we remember an old traditional hymm....It starts out with....

....This world is not my home.

I'm just a passin' thru...

My treasures are laid up

somewhere beyond the blue.

The angels beckon me,

from Heavens open door.

And I

just can't feel at home

in this world anymore.

Good song. I believe it. And it's because I do believe it that I decided I couldn't go on supporting the agenda of the socialist party. Two of the agendas were to promote abortion and "gay liberation." (You'll notice that all socialists support them.) I was in the Gay Liberation Front contingent of the party in San Diego. Then I started reading the Bible-- to the consternation of my friends in the movement-- and eventually this reading, and thinking about issues, led to my decision to become an SDA. It was the best choice I ever made.

[John317]

personally?

No.....

But then again, do they exist in Russia? Probably...or did back before Gorbachav......

I believe that I have heard rumor of them when I was over seas....but that was long ago and far away....and I am trusting to a rumor of many years ago...that has long since turned cold as rumors/clues go....

Perhaps you are talking about the Communist Party. If so, SDAs were not members of the party. In truth, very few Soviet citizens were accepted as members of the party. In fact, if you went to church or believed in God, you could not possibly be a member.

[Neil D]

Quote:

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part;

10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

Are you saying that there will NOT be things done here that were done in ignorance?

Are you saying that we have perfect knowledge now???

John, me thinks you definately mis-understand me. For example, when you say -

In all due respect, may I suggest you study the beliefs and goals of groups such as the Socialist Workers Party and the Communist Revolutionary Part, etc., and then compare these with what the Bible as well as Ellen White teaches. Then it should become clear to you why I cannot support those goals and philosophies. Read the pamphlets their candidates put out. You will notice that if they won the Presidency, they would eventually discourage and try to get rid of religious freedom and expression. (Of course, I realize it is not likely that one of their candidates will ever win, thank God.)

You suspect that I am unaware of of the goals and philosophies of the Socialist Workers Party. And while you may be correct in assuming that I am not INTIMATELY knowledgeable as you possibly are, you have missed my point.

I am quite aware that many think that this fair country that gives us the freedom to express ourselves so freely, and gives us many other freedoms allows us to mature in a way that fullfils our desires. And yet, as i am sure that you are aware, there are conflicts between heaven's philosophies and the US freedoms that we have not realized. Mainly, due to the country that we currently live, we don't realize just what is an unworkable tenet in Heaven.

And yet, there are those in Russia, et al communist countrys, in which, members of Christ are SWP and CRP who are working within such parties as they are able, to slowly correct and protect others less fortunate. Of this, I am sure, as I have read a couple of books from Brother Andrew...who delivered Bibles to the Communist countries thru thier boarders, all the while asking the Lord to make seeing eyes blind at the borders. In his books, he tells us that there is a growing Christian community, who do believe the bible and yet are in the SWP. How do you think that they are rectifying it? I am not sure, but this I am sure of....they are there...