Is This For Real-- A Car That Runs 200 Miles On Compressed Air?

[Bravus]

I think that's correct, but why reduce the tank pressure to 200 psi? Their claim is 4350 psi in the tanks, presumably reduced to 200 at the engine. If my calculations are correct the roughly 99,000 litres would give about 50 minutes run time at 2000 litres/minute.

[Bravus]

(erm, that's short of 200 miles, unless it is doing 240 mph - at 2000 rpm!)

[melvin mccarty]

I meant to show that 200 psi at the engine only gives you around 7000 litres from the 340 litre tank at 4400 psi. (4400 divided by 200 times 340)

Whether 200 psi at the engine is enough I have no idea. I presume the engine would actually be a low speed large bore long stroke configuration similar to steam power but the usage would be the same.

I spent an hour googling air car actually. mel

[Bravus]

Ah, OK, I get you know. I was calculating it back to room pressure, but of course you're right that the input pressure to the engine needs to be higher since that does the work.

This discussion, and particularly the video that started it, has made me realise one thing: I don't think there's anywhere in Australian junior high science that we discuss thermodynamics and state that perpetual motion machines are impossible - but we definitely need to start doing so. That will help innoculate people to snake oil as we move to alternative forms of energy.

[Amelia]

Con men always give you a little something for a bigger something in return. Anyone remember the rainmaker?

[Dr. Shane]

Since Popular Mechanics and NBC's Today Show have bought into the air car as legitimate, are you guys trying to say they are in on the scam?

[Dr. Shane]

OK, I printed off the spec sheet on it. The "minivan" model has an urban range of 37 miles. That means it is running on pure air. The compact has an urban range of 62 miles. Because the car is a sort of hybrid, having a fuel-driven air compressor, the non-urban range is significantly more. The minivan can go 800 miles and the compact 500 miles.

If anyone has question they can call (917) 847-3851 or email sv@zeropollutionmotors.us

[Bravus]

Given a fuel-driven compressor, the 'zeropollutionmotors' address is a bit of a stretch.

I don't think it's an out-and-out scam. I'm sure it can work in some fashion. But I do think the claims being made for it are far out of proportion to anything that's actually being demonstrated. With more modest claims I could see it as one useful small piece of a much larger strategy. But the whole ignorant 'runs on fresh air, zero pollution, totally free' hype is basically false.

[Dr. Shane]

Well that is marketing and business. Just like Spenda tastes like sugar because it is made from sugar.

[melvin mccarty]

A 100cc motor at 100 psi could do it then! I didn't find any specifics. Did you? I would like to know the size of the motor and the regulated pressure and the weight of the vehicle. Do you have that data Shane?

mel

[Dr. Shane]

The minivan:

Weight: 1,874 lbs

Engine: 41P06

Power: 75 CV

Compact:

Weight: 838 lbs

Engine: 41P08

Power: 22 CV

[Bravus]

Yeah, I still have a few questions - the compact is under 400 kilos and my calculation above showed that the compressed air in a full tank adds another 125 kg (bout 270 lb) to that.

Again, not saying it can't work, just saying it's a long way from prime time... and selling it with lies won't help it get there.

[Dr. Shane]

Why not email the company with some questions?

[Neil D]

Yeah, I still have a few questions - the compact is under 400 kilos and my calculation above showed that the compressed air in a full tank adds another 125 kg (bout 270 lb) to that.

Again, not saying it can't work, just saying it's a long way from prime time... and selling it with lies won't help it get there.

Not to dis your subtle reasearch, Bravus, but rather to concur with it...it did seem a bit far fetched to me as well. My understanding was that it also had a piston or two in the system and the air pressure powered that pistion. While I sadly feel that this is a bit far fetched, I am still open to other possible motors/propulsion mechanisms that might power a vehicle using a smaller volume. For example, while the piston is the prime mover of the engine, that energy must be transfered thru the engine, thru the transmission and to the wheel. My understanding is that for each transferance, there is loss of energy to move the vehicle....

Perhaps the piston is directly attached to each wheel, with no transmission...? This would allow more energy of the pressurized piston to reach where it needs to go without kinectic energy loss...Hence, less power for the same amount of movement.

But then again, I am no scientist...nor a mechanical engineer...

[Dr. Shane]

According to one article I read the air car has no transmission. I am sure an email with the right questions could get a lot of answers.

[melvin mccarty]

342. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: ABOLISH THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS

If all of you folks are wondering why these cars are taking so long to come to market, I will tell you; I have good sources that say the "inventors" are waiting for the laws of thermodynamics to be abolished. If they are able to operate outside of the laws of thermodynamics, they will be able to do magnificent things with this idea. Pay attention in science class kids!!

[Dr. Shane]

MDI is not claiming the air car is a perpetual motion machine. No abolition of the law of thermodynamics is needed. Let's put that strawman away.

[melvin mccarty]

I did get carried away there a bit huh? Here is another angle. My son is a fireman and he tells me that they have equipment down at the firehall to compress air to 4000 psi. The claim is that the air cars have a built in compressor that can recharge the tanks in 4 hours. Fine! However my son tells me that their compression eqipment cost around 26,000 dollars. Let's add that into our equation.

mel

[Dr. Shane]

I don't know if there is liability involved with that or not. I have built some hospitals and paid of $3,000 for a medical gas valve when the welding supply store sells the same valve made by the same manufacturer in the same plant for under $100.

[melvin mccarty]

Time will tell. It will soon be August. Meantime I'm not holding my breath and wont be in the market for an air-car anyhow. I do like to have some steel around me on the highway but some ride motorcycles! It's interesting.

mel