Cherumbims, Angels, and Beasts

[Emmery]

Dear Christian,

Is there any corrilation between the 4 beasts (living creatures) of Ezekiel 1 & 3; the Cherubims of Ezekiel 10; and the 4 beasts of Revelation 4, 5, 6, 7, 14, 15, & 19?

I have also noticed that the words "angel" and "Cherubim" are never interchanged in the Bible. Is there something to that?

On a related note; I don't see where "angels" are described as having wings or halos. Also, Satan is described as having had the position of a "covering cherubim" (like on the arc of the covenent), but never referred to as an "angel".

I have also descovered that the statues on the arc are called "Cherubims" and never referred to as "Angels"

Please enlighten me.

[Woody]

To find out about a title of Satan as an Angel .... dial 911. In Rev. 9:11 he is called an angel.

Cherubims are just a class of angels to my understanding.

In Ezekiel 10:5 "And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard [even] to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh."

Ellen White describes them as Angels wings ...

Quote:

"In the ark, beneath where the angels' wings were spread, was a golden pot of Manna, of a yellowish cast; and I saw a rod, which Jesus said was Aaron's; I saw it bud, blossom and bear fruit. [Numbers 17:8.] And I saw two long golden rods, on which hung silver wires, and on the wires most glorious grapes; one cluster was more than a man here could carry. And I saw Jesus step up and take of the manna, almonds, grapes and pomegranates, and bear them down to the city, and place them on the supper table."{WLF 16.1}

Quote:

"Angels of God had charge over His people, and as the poisonous atmosphere of evil angels was pressed around these anxious ones, the heavenly angels were continually wafting their wings over them to scatter the thick darkness." {CET 175.2}

Angels and Cherubims had different jobs. Angels were messagers and Cherubims are guards to my understanding. Of course .... I had to go to the authority .... MY WIFE. She tells me what is what.

I am sure you will get more learned people to respond soon.

Blessings ....

[Emmery]

Thank you for your responce.

I think Rev. 9:11 is speaking symbolically, and I'm not sure that's even referring to Satan. Jesus is also referred to as an angel or the Arc Angel, although we know he is not one.

I know EGW describes angels with wings, but I was referring to the Bible alone. Where do non SDA's get the idea of angels having wings?

Yes, Angels and Cherubims have different jobs for sure. The question is; are the same species?

[Bravus]

I think probably there are more things in heaven... than are dreamt of in our philosophy. There's no particular reason for angels to be the winged humanoids we often see them painted as, and many reasons for them not to be. When Ezekial talks about beasts with four faces pointing in different directions and eight wings, I think that's giving us some sense of their strangeness... but even that is only his attempt to render them in comprehensible human images he and his audience was familiar with.

And, a separate point, the Scholastics had described a whole complex hierarchy of different classes and types of angels - might be worth checking that out.

[Bravus]

And on *another* point, I think 'cherubims' is incorrect. 'Cherub' is the singular and 'cherubim' is the plural, so there's no need for the 's' to make it plural.

[Woody]

And on *another* point, I think 'cherubims' is incorrect. 'Cherub' is the singular and 'cherubim' is the plural, so there's no need for the 's' to make it plural.

Thanks Bravus. I didn't know that. I will correct my double plural.

[carolaa]

Where do non SDA's get the idea of angels having wings?

Probably because the Bible describes angels as flying. Also, the handcrafted angels on the ark of the covenant had wings.

[Amelia]

I found this on another site

Quote:

Long before the birth of Christ, sun worshipers wore

rings of feathers on their heads, presumably to represent

rays of sunlight and identity the wearer with the sun god.

It is believed that this led to the idea of depicting divine

beings with circles of light about their heads. It is also

probable that this led kings and queens to wear crowns.

See also...

Halo (religious iconography)

[Emmery]

Part of my question deals with the fact that the figures on the arc are always called "Cherubims" and never as "Angels".

Also, the only "Angels" that I have found descibed as flying are the symbolic angels such as the "3 angels"... "flying in the mist of heaven".

[carolaa]

You're right. Doesn't Revelation describe angels in heaven as having six wings, and also covering their faces with their wings? I can't remember offhand. I guess I've never thought much about that. Angel simply means messenger, so it's hard to say.

[John317]

You're right. Doesn't Revelation describe angels in heaven as having six wings, and also covering their faces with their wings? I can't remember offhand. I guess I've never thought much about that.

No, there is nothing in the book of Revelation that says this about angels.

Quote:

Angel simply means messenger, so it's hard to say.

That angel simply means messenger is important in such verses as Rev. 2: 1 where the letters to the church are addressed "To the angel of the church of....." It could be that the letters were written to specific church leaders, such as the churches' elder or pastor.

[ChildofChrist]

Daniel 9:21 NIVWhile I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.

Daniel states that the humanoid creature had FLOWN and had a name.

What is the current theological stand... Is this an angel or was it Christ? 

[John317]

Gabriel is not Christ. Gabriel is a mere creature.

"flown"=travel through space. It is only reasonable that Bible writers would describe travel through space as "flying." They saw birds fly all the time and they used wings. So in their mind, of course travel through space had to be by wings. It was language they knew.

[Woody]

Quote:

Isaiah 6:2 " Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. "

Quote:

"The revelation given to Isaiah was of the King, the Lord of hosts, a being greater than any earthly potentate. He was seated on a throne, high and lifted up, with bright-winged seraphim on either side as a royal guard. "Each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet [in token of reverence and humility], and with twain he did fly," representing an instant execution of the Lord's bidding. Heavenly beings stood around the throne of Omnipotence, waiting His commands, and swift in the performance of their service to the inhabitants of earth." {BEcho, September 9, 1895 par. 8}

[Emmery]

Thank you for all of your posts.

Redwood, I am especially thankful for your reference to Isaiah 6. That is another reference that I couldn't find when initially posting this.

Back to the basic question(s)....

Are the figures in Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Revelations the same creatures?

Are they different than the humanoid figures seen elsewhere such as Gabriel and other Angels seen by people throughout the Bible.