angel on tape?

[Guest truthseeker007]

angel

Do you think this video illustrates that angels are real or is this just a coincidence. If you look intensely you can even see wings. Where does the idea that angels have wings actually come from?

[Woody]

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Where does the idea that angels have wings actually come from?

Here's one. Not to mention several by EGW.

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In Ezekiel 10:5 "And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard [even] to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh."

[fccool]

I would think that there are no difference in appearance between the angels and the demons (who are also angels). There is also no mentioning of two winged angels in the Bible .

[Woody]

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There is also no mentioning of two winged angels in the Bible .

Consider the following ...

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1 Kings 8:7 "For the cherubims spread forth [their] two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above."

2 Chron. 3:11 "And the wings of the cherubims [were] twenty cubits long: one wing [of the one cherub was] five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing [was likewise] five cubits, reaching to the wing of the other cherub. "

And if two aren't enough. Try Six.

Isaiah 6:2 " Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. "

[Amelia]

Angels and cherubims I believe are two different beings. In the bible it says that cherubims have wings and more than one face etc. Nothing is said about what angels look like other than they are spoken of in the masculine.

[fccool]

Ezekiel 28:12-15 Satan is angel and he is a cherub at the same time. Angel simply means messenger. In that respect... anyone could be angel of God.

[rush4hire]

I can't get this video to finish on youtube. It stops at 1:59.

I've seen stuff like that in video at night. You can fix it by cleaning the lens.

[edit]

Ok, here's just that 16 second shot: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CnKnymgDyk4&feature=related

Notice when the camera moves the "angel" moves. That's how you know it's just a trick of the light. The same "phenomenon" is seen here: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxJzppfn3Y&feature=related

Notice the "angel" only moves when the camera moves. It's really just an upside down reflection of the bon-fire. The strait on fire is too bright to see the shape of it, but the reflection is filtered just enough to see the shape. The top of the fire where it flickers, becomes the bottom in the reflection, so the flicker of the fire kinda looks like little feet moving real fast.

They have hundreds of these kinds of videos on youtube. No doubt some of these are edited with the same kind of software used to make special effects.

[Woody]

Angels and cherubims I believe are two different beings. In the bible it says that cherubims have wings and more than one face etc. Nothing is said about what angels look like other than they are spoken of in the masculine.

"In the ark, beneath where the angels' wings were spread, was a golden pot of Manna, of a yellowish cast; and I saw a rod, which Jesus said was Aaron's; I saw it bud, blossom and bear fruit. [Numbers 17:8.] And I saw two long golden rods, on which hung silver wires, and on the wires most glorious grapes; one cluster was more than a man here could carry. And I saw Jesus step up and take of the manna, almonds, grapes and pomegranates, and bear them down to the city, and place them on the supper table."{WLF 16.1}

"Angels of God had charge over His people, and as the poisonous atmosphere of evil angels was pressed around these anxious ones, the heavenly angels were continually wafting their wings over them to scatter the thick darkness." {CET 175.2}

[Amelia]

But those are not angels on the ark.

Ex 25:22 -

There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the Testimony, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

Cherubim have wings

Ex 25:20 -

The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.

God flies with the cherubim

2Sa 22:11 -

He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind

1Ki 8:6,7 -

The priests then brought the ark of the Lord's covenant to its place in the inner sanctuary of the temple, the Most Holy Place, and put it beneath the wings of the cherubim. 7 The cherubim spread their wings over the place of the ark and overshadowed the ark and its carrying poles.

Eze 10:5 -

The sound of the wings of the cherubim could be heard as far away as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when he speaks.

Then there are Seraphs. They have 6 wings whereas the cherubim have 4.

Isaiah 6:2

Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.

Angels are never mentioned having wings.

[Woody]

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But those are not angels on the ark.

Angels are never mentioned having wings.

Obviously ... Mrs. White disagrees with you.

[Amelia]

Ellen White was not the be all, end all of knowledge. She said look to the bible first. That is what I did. If she saw beings with wings on or about the ark then they had to be the cherubim. That she called them angels doesn't make it so. IMHO

[John317]

Angels are portrayed as having wings because they are symbols of speed. But we today know that such speed as they travel at is not dependent on the kinds of wings we are familiar with. According to Daniel 9: 23, Gabriel flew from heaven to Daniel in the short time it took him to pray the prayer recorded in Daniel 9: 4-21. If Gabriel did indeed fly that distance from heaven to Babylon, we are talking about flying much faster than the speed of light. It seems obvious to me that at that speed, wings like those we typically envision are of no practical use.

In GC 677, Ellen White says the saved will "wing their tireless flight to worlds afar." It seems to me that she is simply saying that we will travel there. How we will travel is probably not something we are capable of understanding except as we envision wings like birds, the only mode of flying at the time Ellen White and the Bible writers wrote. She also speaks of children in heaven using wings to fly. Will they have literal wings? We simply do not know.

Does the Bible refer to angels as having wings? All we can go by is how the Bible portrays them, and in Ezekiel 10:8, 19, 21 the cherubim (beings of the angelic order performing duties related to God's throne and His holiness) are portrayed as having wings. It could be argued that it is a symbolic representation, yet the fact is that they are represented as having wings. They appeared to be wings to the prophet. We can conjecture what they might actually have been, but we cannot be more certain than the prophet was.

Again, Isaiah 6:2 portrays seraphim (an order of celestial beings serving God near His throne) as having six wings, with two of which they flew.

[Amelia]

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Does the Bible refer to angels as having wings? All we can go by is how the Bible portrays them, and in Ezekiel 10:8, 19, 21 the cherubim (beings of the angelic order performing duties related to God's throne and His holiness) are portrayed as having wings. It could be argued that it is a symbolic representation, yet the fact is that they are represented as having wings. They appeared to be wings to the prophet. We can conjecture what they might actually have been, but we cannot be more certain than the prophet was.

How can it be conjecture when God Himself directed the construction of the Ark of the Testmony, with the cherubim having wings? Would God add something to this being that wasn't there?

[John317]

Quote:

Does the Bible refer to angels as having wings? All we can go by is how the Bible portrays them, and in Ezekiel 10:8, 19, 21 the cherubim (beings of the angelic order performing duties related to God's throne and His holiness) are portrayed as having wings. It could be argued that it is a symbolic representation, yet the fact is that they are represented as having wings. They appeared to be wings to the prophet. We can conjecture what they might actually have been, but we cannot be more certain than the prophet was.

How can it be conjecture when God Himself directed the construction of the Ark of the Testmony, with the cherubim having wings? Would God add something to this being that wasn't there?

My point was that if we say they weren't actually wings, we would be conjecturing.