There is a growing trend ....

[Woody]

toward legalism these days. I think Mrs. White forsaw this. Take a look at what she said about this year ago ...

Quote:

" So there are many who hope by their own works to merit God's favor. They do not realize their helplessness. They do not accept the grace of God as a free gift, but are trying to build themselves up in self-righteousness. Their own hearts are not broken and humbled on account of sin, and they are exacting and unforgiving toward others. Their own sins against God, compared with their brother's sins against them, are as ten thousand talents to one hundred pence--nearly one million to one; yet they dare to be unforgiving." COL 245

What do we see today? People in the church "who hope by their own works to merit God's favor".

What a shame. But this does not surprise God. He knew this would happen. This however is the main hurdle that humans have to face. And it is an empty hellish theory that I am so glad I've been saved from.

[Taylor]

I know the SDA church leaned heavily towads legalism a few years ago but although there is a segment of Adventism that leans towards that heavily, I don't see it as the trend at all. I see the opposite being true, but maybe it is just my experience.

[John317]

But the counsel of the true Witness does not represent those who are lukewarm as in a hopeless case. There is yet a chance to remedy their state, and the Laodicean message is full of encouragement; for the backslidden church may yet buy the gold of faith and love, may yet have the white robe of the righteousness of Christ, that the shame of their nakedness need not appear. Purity of heart, purity of motive, may yet characterize those who are halfhearted and who are striving to serve God and mammon. They may yet wash their robes of character and make them white in the blood of the Lamb (RH Aug. 28, 1894). 7 SDA BC 966

There will be no second probation in which to prepare for eternity. It is in this life that we are to put on the robe of Christ's righteousness. This is our only opportunity to form characters for the home which Christ has made ready for those who obey His commandments. Signs of the Times 11/22/05

The only hope of any man lies through Jesus Christ, who brought the robe of His righteousness to put upon the sinner who would lay off his filthy garments. . . . The pure and holy garments are not prepared to be put on by any one after he has entered the gate of the city. All who enter will have on the robe of Christ's righteousness. . . . There will be no covering up of sins and faults to hide the deformity of character; no robes will be half washed; but all will be pure and spotless. Sons and Daughters of God (1955), p. 66.

There is a heaven before us, a crown of life to win. But to the overcomer only is the reward given. He who gains heaven must be clothed with the robe of righteousness. "Every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." In the character of Christ there was no discord of any kind. And this must be our experience. Our lives must be controlled by the principles that controlled His life. Sons of Daughters of God (1955) p. 8.

[Taylor]

I think we can experience the joy of God's transforming grace in our lives...of victory over sin without thinking that we can ever "merit heaven" and be "good enough" to save. We are saved by grace, but God's power in our lives to change us for better lives even here on this earth, is the amazing thing. I have seen failed marriages put back together again, I have seen th habitual dishonest person become trust-worthy, I have seen the irresponsible become responsible, I have seen the addict set free. This can only be attributed to God's power in their lives and it is a beautiful thing to behold.

I am just glad that that God is God and that He knows who to save. He knows who has "changed to look good" and who has "given their lives to Jesus.". He knows who is relying on self for salvation and who is relying on God for their salvation.

[Neil D]

You guys do know that pockets of various conditions exisit within SDA-dom, don'tcha?

For eexample, there may be afew congregations that seem to center more upon a legalistic theology in, say, Northern California as opposed to Southern California which may lean heavily toward a liberal theology as opposed to central California that leans on traditional Adventist teachings, as opposed to southern Oregon which leans towards an ultra conservative teaching....You see where this is going, don'tcha?

Just remember, when Elijah was depressed and he said that he alone was the lone worshiper of Yahwaeh, God's repsonse was that there were 7,000 others who had not bent the knee to Baal.....

remember than when you feel alone .....

[John317]

So much for stereotypes.

Loma Linda, of course, is in Southern California. I've lived either in or near here most of my life. It's true there are what you call "liberals" there but also many of what you would call "conservatives," and many, too, who probably wouldn't fit in either one of those boxes. I love the place and the people. I never even thought of "liberal/conservative" issues or in those categories until I came to CA, or the Forum. I still do not like those terms in the church because I think it just tends to divide and it often stops people from really communicating and from considering each other's ideas or beliefs openly and respectfully.

For instance, I have learned that there are a lot of people who, when they hear someone is liberal, turn them off immediately; whereas others turn people off immediately if they think of them as conservative. I think that's very harmful to us as a church, and I don't believe it's the way God wants us to think about each other.

[Taylor]

Sometimes people think that Southern California has only liberals and that isn't true by any means and some of those "liberals" are amazingly "conservative" by comparison to others. lol Yes, John, I hate both terms for the same reasons you mentioned above.

[Neil D]

Southern Oregon is the only area that regularly practices a "going to the restuarant" after Sabbath behavior...I have been to other places, Monroe Washington, or Redding California, or Corvallis Oregon [and points inbetween] and churches dont seem to practice this as much...Oh, there may be a family or two who do this occassionally, but with regularity, doesn't seem to happen as much as it does in Southern Oregon...And yet, thier theology is such that they are very literal toward biblical teachings....Don't ask me why, as I don't know...

I am aware that Loma Linda tends to do the same as well...but have not experienced that...

And what I am talking about is more of a reaction to Redwoods comemmt that there is a trend toward conservatism in the Adventist church...my point being that there are all sorts of individuals within the church and regions where one practice holds sway over another.....with little thought for biblical accuracy...

Is that stereotyping? well, maybe....maybe not....

[Woody]

I'm with you John and Taylor. Personally, I am very conservative. But since coming here ... I've been surprised to hear people call me 'liberal'. I think the name calling just confuses the issues.

However .... there are teachings out there that are conservative and liberal. And the reason I started this thread was because I have witnessed so much legalism on this forum and in my area that it surprised me. Perhaps the people are not legalist ... they may not even be aware of their legalistic teachings.