Vessels of Dishonour

[rush4hire]

[color:#BF0000] 2 Tim. 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

What are these vessels?

Some have said vessels of dishonour are just not so important people, where the others are more important, like you might have a set of common dishes for every day use and then the special set of fine china that you bring out only when you have special guests.

This really seems to go out of context with the chapter. I believe vessels of honour are the bowls and cups that everyone eats out of every day, but vessels of dishonour are those things no one would eat out of, but they serve a purpose. These are like trash cans, wash basins, etc. Let me explain:

[color:#BF0000]2 Tim. 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

So a vessel of honour is "prepared unto every good work". That means they feed everyone, not just important people and spend the rest of their time serving as decoration in the china closet.

So do you need to purge yourself of? Back to verse 16:

[color:#BF0000]2 Tim. 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

You need to purge yourself of vain and vain babblings. And do we have examples of vessels of dishonour?

[color:#BF0000]2 Tim. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Hymenaeus and Philetus where vessels of dishonour and what was their purpose? To eat like a canker and overthrow the faith of some. Does that sound like something you should be eating out of on an everyday basis? Not to me.

Look:

[color:#BF0000]Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

So when you want to clean house, you take your trash can and pick up the trash and sweep the floor and put that in the trash. You might have a mop bucket and a bucket with a wash rag. So that's how God cleans His great house, the Church.

Those who follow after the perverse men who continue spewing forth "profane and vain babblings" show themselves to be the trash that God is removing from His house. Perhaps they are the ones who don't have a zeal for God, but are the sons of Belial who "mind earthly things", (Phil. 3:19).

[color:#BF0000]1 John 2:18 ...even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Don't follow them out, to separate from the Children of God. Nevermind their babblings.

The next verse in acts admonishes us to stand sure and to remember how simple the Gospel is. The babblings only make it complicated:

[color:#BF0000]Acts 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

It's that simple. It's about departing from iniquity.

Now there are some today who say it's not possible for man in his current state to depart from iniquity. They might even change the definition of iniquity to add more confusion.

Are these not modern examples of vessels of dishonour? Does this babble not overthrow the faith of some? It can and probably will. At the same time those who have zeal for the pure Gospel strengthen themselves to resist the temptations to jump in that trash. They study more seriously and gain experience refuting false doctrine. It's like a booster shot where you get weak germs for your immune system to kill so it will be ready for the real battle.

And that's the glory of living in Christ. God's people can be benefited from anything:

[color:#BF0000]Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Quote:

When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882). {LDE 180.4}

Therefore the damage is not so bad. It's possible for them to purge themselves of such babble. May they do so and be saved. With God anything is possible. Amen.

[John317]

Personally I really like this post, Rush. I believe it contains much Bible truth.

The only thing I would like to add is that we let God do the sweeping and cleaning of His House. If it was left to individual members to accomplish that, we would certainly make mistakes and possibly sweep out a lot of good wheat in order get rid of a few tares.

[rush4hire]

The theory here is that God cleanses His house by using false prophets to attract people who are attracted to false doctrine. Then they go out to start their own offshoot movement which comes back from time to time to see how many people they can seduce, who don't have a strong hold on the truth.

In many places, it says people like false doctrine because of lusts, like this one.

[color:#BF0000] 2 Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

So God has His reasons to get rid of them if they refuse to purge themselves of these things. And of course God would rather people voluntarily purge themselves of such vain babble. If everyone did this, the church would be clean. Those who refuse to purge themselves will be led out with the vain, babbling false prophets.

Does that make sense or not?

I don't think this post would encourage anyone to play the part of a false prophet to serve this purpose. Is that what you where thinking? I hope you answer at least this question to show that you're reading.

I guess it's only a theory at this point. But I haven't seen a better explanation for the vessels of dishonour chapter. I have heard some theories, some of which are so evil, I would not want to share at this time.

Or I guess I could try.

One guy who has a great influence in this church says that vessels of dishonour are the police force and the military because they protect us from bad people, but to do so they have to use weapons and kill people. This makes me sad. That's way far from a reasonable interpretation.

In the same chapter, Paul says:

[color:#BF0000] 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

That's not saying the military profession is bad. It's just a trade, and an honourable one. Ellen White uses similar examples of soldiers. Jesus said to a military general that he had greater faith than He had seen in all of Israel, (Matt. 8:8-10). And there are alot more verses.

But I have discussed, on this forum, a traumatic episode in my life which occurred because I could not stomach such an interpretation, so I said something. They said I was wrong. That I should have kept it to myself, that I shouldn't go around trying to correct everyone. They also suggested that I should eat things that my conscience won't allow me to eat, for doing so would make the counsel of health reform of none effect.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...e_ac#Post177216

How vain! How shallow! How uninspired! What contempt for the revelations God gives us!

I'm glad for you John317. If it wasn't for guys like you, I would completely give up hope.

[Kevin H]

God will bring us to where we choose to go, to heaven or hell. Just because God sees that someone will choose hell will not cause God not to creat them. God will use us for his purposes just as he used Abraham, Peter, Pharaoh, and Caiaphas (read the chapter of Caiaphas in the Desire of Ages)

[rush4hire]

I do see your point and well put Kevin_H.

Concerning God knowing what we will choose before we are born, I'm not convinced that God always accesses the information He could have available to Him. Consider Adam and his pets:

[color:#BF0000]Gen. 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.

What joy would God have in this experience if He allowed Himself to know what Adam would call the animals?

Therefore what purpose would it serve to say that God knows whether we will be saved or lost before we where born? I don't see any of the prophets making such a point as that. I would even put such thinking out of my mind to save myself from the predestination doctrine which has proven to be something that does not edify. The thinking revealed in the Word is that the Lord really wants everyone to be saved, so there is a plan for that, just in case everyone actually decided to be saved.

You're right. No matter what people decide, there's a plan. God can see the end from the beginning, though there are infinite branchings off of decisions that a person can make in his life. God can see all possibilities I suppose. Such understanding is beyond my comprehension.

God knows if a person has hardened his heart past the point of no return and that no matter what He does, they never repent, given all eternity. God gives him honor and power and entreats him to give glory to his Creator for it, which he refuses to do for pride sake. Then he allows him to exalt himself against the people of God and in all his blasphemy, God brings him down very hard and his people are inspired by that. So all things work for the good for God's people.

[color:#BF0000]Exo. 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

Josh. 11:19 There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all [other] they took in battle.

11:20 For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, [and] that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses.

2 Kings 18:30 Neither let Hezekiah make you trust in the LORD, saying, The LORD will surely deliver us, and this city shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria.

18:33 Hath any of the gods of the nations delivered at all his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria?

2 Kings 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they [were] all dead corpses.

19:36 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.

19:37 And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword...

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

That's how God does it. He sends them strong delusion because He knows they would rather believe a lie than the truth. Their delusion is that they can overcome God's people by force.