Did Christ die the second death?

[Reddogs]

Did Christ die the second death ?

I had never heard of this from any Adventist pulpit or preacher, but some people say Christ died the second death because the second death (the one after the 1000 years) is the penalty for sin...

Has anyone heard of this, and can anyone expand on why/where this belief comes from...

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[John317]

I completely agree. The wages of sin is eternal death, and therefore that is the death that Jesus died for us. Had Jesus not volunteered to give His life in exchange for sinners, the human race would have nothing to look forward to but an eternal sleep from which there would never be an awakening.

This is made plain in Romans 5, among others.

But yet, what is the second death, and in what sense did Jesus die that death rather than the first death that all men die?

[Reddogs]

I completely agree. The wages of sin is eternal death, and therefore that is the death that Jesus died for us. Had Jesus not volunteered to give His life in exchange for sinners, the human race would have nothing to look forward to but an eternal sleep from which there would never be an awakening.

This is made plain in Romans 5, among others.

But yet, what is the second death, and in what sense did Jesus die that death rather than the first death that all men die?

Exactly, is the second death the lake of fire, or is it the finality of the seperation from God...

[Fausto]

Reddogs

I hope this extract will help you figure this out:

Quote:

Objections Answered

11. On what verses is the doctrine based of the eternally burning hell where the wicked suffer forever?

“Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” Matthew 3:12; Mark 9:43, 47.

Answer: This verses teaches that the fires of hell cannot be put out or quenched by anyone. There is no escape from the power of the flame, but when all is consumed “. . . there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.” (Isaiah 47:14) When the fire has done its work it will go out on its own. II Chronicles 36:19 - 21 records when Jerusalem burned with unquenchable fire and was totally destroyed.

Because of the apostasy recorded in Jeremiah 32:35 and the consequence of the judgments upon Israel because of it, the flames and worms of Gehenna became a symbol of punishment and judgment. In Jeremiah 7:31 - 34 God warns the Israelites that the valley of Hinnom will become “. . .the valley of slaughter” where the “. . . carcasses of this people shall be meat for the fouls of the heaven.” Jesus used the fires that were burning in the valley as He spoke, to describe the final, total destruction of sin and sinners.

It must be noticed that it is not disembodied souls upon whom the worms feed, but carcasses, or dead bodies of men. (See Isaiah 66:24) Those who are cast into the lake of fire will go in bodily form. (Mark 9:42 - 45) Jesus said in Matthew 5:30 that “the whole body” would be cast into hell. Isaiah 51:8 states that “the worm shall eat them like wool” showing that they will be put out of existence.

12. Is the ‘unquenchable’ fire that devoured the palaces of Jerusalem still burning today?

“But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” Jeremiah 17:27.

Answer: This text declares that if the Jews would not observe the Sabbath, the Lord would kindle a fire that could not be quenched. This does not mean that it would never go out, but that no one will be able to stop it. It would burn until what it was burning was completely destroyed. This fire is also described in II Chronicles 36:19, 21: “And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof. To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfill the threescore and ten years.”

The fire here mentioned is not still burning. Man could not quench it, therefore it burned until there was nothing left to burn. In the end the wicked will burn in the unquenchable lake of fire. (Mark 9:43, 45) The undying worm and unquenchable fire are symbols of utter destruction. The wicked will not be able to escape in any way from it: “. . . they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.” (Isaiah 47:14) This shows that the fire will go out when it has consumed all the bodies of the wicked.

13. What did Jesus mean by "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment"?

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” Matthew 25:41, 46.

Answer: The word “everlasting” comes from the Greek word meaning literally “age lasting.” Further definitions include, “A period of time of significant character; life; indeterminate as to duration; eternity; a period of existence; a space of time clearly defined and marked out; everlasting; eternal.”

It can be clearly seen that the meaning of the word is determined by that which it is applied to. When it is applied to God, it means there is no end if applied to man, it ends with his life; if to the Christian era, it terminates when Christ comes. When applied to the punishment of the wicked, it evidently means the same as when applied to the reward of the righteous, as both rewards are eternal and everlasting. One is eternal life and one is eternal death. The reward of the wicked is not “everlasting (eternal) punishment” or “everlasting (eternal) punishing” but “everlasting destruction.” (II Thessalonians 1:9) The punishment is of eternal duration which is complete destruction. It is a destruction that never ends because there is no resurrection from that eternal death. (See Romans 6:23; Revelation 21:8)

14. Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?

Answer: No, indeed! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:

A. Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16).

B. People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65:17).

C. The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says.

D. Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12).

E. The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-

15.) So what does this parable mean? The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. The rich man was a symbol of the Jewish nation, feasting on the Scriptures while the beggar at the gate--the Gentiles--were starving for the Word. Jesus concluded the parable with the observation that "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31. Indeed, Jesus did later raise a man named Lazarus from the dead, and most of the Jewish leaders still did not believe (John 12:9-11).

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

I completely agree. The wages of sin is eternal death, and therefore that is the death that Jesus died for us. Had Jesus not volunteered to give His life in exchange for sinners, the human race would have nothing to look forward to but an eternal sleep from which there would never be an awakening.

This is made plain in Romans 5, among others.

But yet, what is the second death, and in what sense did Jesus die that death rather than the first death that all men die?

Exactly, is the second death the lake of fire, or is it the finality of the seperation from God...

Great question. I'd like to ask you to study the verses in Fausto's post and let us know if they and the points made in them answer your questions.

[Reddogs]

Reddogs

I hope this extract will help you figure this out:

Quote:

Objections Answered

11. On what verses is the doctrine based of the eternally burning hell where the wicked suffer forever?

“Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” Matthew 3:12; Mark 9:43, 47.

Answer: This verses teaches that the fires of hell cannot be put out or quenched by anyone. There is no escape from the power of the flame, but when all is consumed “. . . there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.” (Isaiah 47:14) When the fire has done its work it will go out on its own. II Chronicles 36:19 - 21 records when Jerusalem burned with unquenchable fire and was totally destroyed.

Because of the apostasy recorded in Jeremiah 32:35 and the consequence of the judgments upon Israel because of it, the flames and worms of Gehenna became a symbol of punishment and judgment. In Jeremiah 7:31 - 34 God warns the Israelites that the valley of Hinnom will become “. . .the valley of slaughter” where the “. . . carcasses of this people shall be meat for the fouls of the heaven.” Jesus used the fires that were burning in the valley as He spoke, to describe the final, total destruction of sin and sinners.

It must be noticed that it is not disembodied souls upon whom the worms feed, but carcasses, or dead bodies of men. (See Isaiah 66:24) Those who are cast into the lake of fire will go in bodily form. (Mark 9:42 - 45) Jesus said in Matthew 5:30 that “the whole body” would be cast into hell. Isaiah 51:8 states that “the worm shall eat them like wool” showing that they will be put out of existence.

12. Is the ‘unquenchable’ fire that devoured the palaces of Jerusalem still burning today?

“But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” Jeremiah 17:27.

Answer: This text declares that if the Jews would not observe the Sabbath, the Lord would kindle a fire that could not be quenched. This does not mean that it would never go out, but that no one will be able to stop it. It would burn until what it was burning was completely destroyed. This fire is also described in II Chronicles 36:19, 21: “And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof. To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfill the threescore and ten years.”

The fire here mentioned is not still burning. Man could not quench it, therefore it burned until there was nothing left to burn. In the end the wicked will burn in the unquenchable lake of fire. (Mark 9:43, 45) The undying worm and unquenchable fire are symbols of utter destruction. The wicked will not be able to escape in any way from it: “. . . they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.” (Isaiah 47:14) This shows that the fire will go out when it has consumed all the bodies of the wicked.

13. What did Jesus mean by "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment"?

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” Matthew 25:41, 46.

Answer: The word “everlasting” comes from the Greek word meaning literally “age lasting.” Further definitions include, “A period of time of significant character; life; indeterminate as to duration; eternity; a period of existence; a space of time clearly defined and marked out; everlasting; eternal.”

It can be clearly seen that the meaning of the word is determined by that which it is applied to. When it is applied to God, it means there is no end if applied to man, it ends with his life; if to the Christian era, it terminates when Christ comes. When applied to the punishment of the wicked, it evidently means the same as when applied to the reward of the righteous, as both rewards are eternal and everlasting. One is eternal life and one is eternal death. The reward of the wicked is not “everlasting (eternal) punishment” or “everlasting (eternal) punishing” but “everlasting destruction.” (II Thessalonians 1:9) The punishment is of eternal duration which is complete destruction. It is a destruction that never ends because there is no resurrection from that eternal death. (See Romans 6:23; Revelation 21:8)

14. Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?

Answer: No, indeed! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:

A. Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16).

B. People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65:17).

C. The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says.

D. Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12).

E. The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-

15.) So what does this parable mean? The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. The rich man was a symbol of the Jewish nation, feasting on the Scriptures while the beggar at the gate--the Gentiles--were starving for the Word. Jesus concluded the parable with the observation that "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31. Indeed, Jesus did later raise a man named Lazarus from the dead, and most of the Jewish leaders still did not believe (John 12:9-11).

But we are not talking about a eternal burning hell per se, we are talking about the results of the second death which is eternal death or total seperation from God. The wicked have choosen it while the saints have chosen eternal life. So the question is, did Jesus die the 2nd death which on the face of it doesnt seem that the death of grave in the tomb, meets that criteria.

But, did Christ suffer the total seperation from God the Father which is the sinners ultimate fate. I came across where EGW says that Christs connection to the Father was (for the only time ever, and never again) 'sundered' so there was a complete seperation as Christ died at the cross...

Main Entry: sun·der

Pronunciation: \ˈsən-dər\

Function: verb

Inflected Form(s): sun·dered; sun·der·ing \-d(ə-)riŋ\

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gesundrian, syndrian; akin to Old High German suntarōn to sunder, Old English sundor apart, Latin sine without, Sanskrit sanutar away

Date: before 12th century

transitive verb

: to break apart or in two : separate by or as if by violence or by intervening time or space

intransitive verb

: to become parted, disunited, or severed

synonyms see separate

In the final judgment the wicked will be in God's presence but totally separated from Him.

The Captain of our salvation was perfected through suffering. His soul was made an offering for sin. It was necessary for the awful darkness to gather about His soul because of the withdrawal of the Father's love and favor; for He was standing in the sinner's place, and this darkness every sinner must experience. The righteous One must suffer the condemnation and wrath of God, not in vindictiveness; for the heart of God yearned with greatest sorrow when His Son, the guiltless, was suffering the penalty of sin. This sundering of the divine powers will never again occur throughout the eternal ages (MS 93, 1899).

God the Father was present at the Cross but a seperation is evident at the point that Christ cries out, 'why have you forsaken me'....

Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Here is a good understanding of how Christ was confronted by the 2nd death...

"...In Christ's death is no hint of the Saviour's effort to win the favor of the Father. With that favor already in hand, His confidence carried Him to Calvary, despite a shuddering of His human frame. Only on the cross, confronted by withdrawal of His Father's presence in revulsion against sin, did the stark break become clear. As the veil of our guilt fell over Him, there was expressed from His lips an agonizing cry, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46).

With this He slipped into the pit of the second death carrying the burden of rejection for rebellion against God. At that point He is in our place. His is the despair of lost sinners staring into a black hole of oblivion, devoid of hope. Standing in our place, "The Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. (The Desire of Ages, p. 753). Death overtook Him as the abandoned sinner, alone, in the place where each of us really belongs....."

From:Why Did Jesus Die?

How God Saves Us

by George W. Reid, Former Director

Biblical Research Institute

[BibleShockers]

I think you all seem to be making a false assumption and trying to conform your text to reach the proper conclusions. The false assumption is that Jesus' suffering was a payment (commercial transaction) and/or a strict substitution for the punishment of others. Neither assumption is true.

The fact is that Jesus not only lived a relatively cushy life, but his death was, compared to many, a relatively easy death. Unlike most victims of Rome, Jesus was on the wood for only three hours. We are told that he "tasted" death. He got a sample of what people go through.

His death is never said to "pay" anything to anyone. To whom would he pay? To "the Devil?"

Nor was his death vicarious for others in the sense that he would be subjected to their punishment and somehow thus relieve them of the punishment (and allow God to vent his angry emotions and "spend" justice). All of that stuff is made up.

Nor is death "separation from God." Death is a dissolution of one's person. One ceases to exist. Well, at least in the OT. In the NT, the concept of an afterlife comes into play. But still, the second death is just a final annihilation. Obviously, Jesus didn't stay dead, right?

The cry "why hast thou forsaken me" should read "why have you left me in the lurch?" Jesus had prayed 3 times that his death would be swift - yet he was still alive. After his cry, he said "It (my suffering) is finished" and expelled his breath. There was no cosmic suffering, only physical and emontional - like all of us.

Bill Ross

[Parade Orange]

a cushy life?

O honey u live a cushy life!

[BibleShockers]

A cushy life:

* he was healthy

* financially independent

* had family, friends

* had a job

* could produce fish and chips as needed

* he had favor with God and man

What more could you ask for?

Bill

[Parade Orange]

Jesus was homeless and percieved as a bastard( a bigg no no in self rightouse religouse society).

He like Scarlett O hara had to depend on the kindness of strangers.

He was constantly demonized and gossipped about.

He had Authorities spy and question his every move.

His family riduculed him at every step.

His closest friends eyes glazed over everytime he talked about what his real mission was about.

Do u have any idea what its like to be misunderstood?

All your life?

Charged with crimes he didnt commit.

backstabbed and dropped like a hot potato by your buds just when u needed them most.

sleep deprived.

Being whipped so bad all your back muscles are in shreds.

Mocked,derided and cursed to your face

sexually molested

and stripped naked in front of your enemies.

spikes pounding into your wrists and ankles.

and hung on a splintery cross.

and the worst of all which we will never comprehend-

Having the most indescrible,

blissful,

penetrating,

comforting,

all consuming,

passionate,

safe,

love of all your eternal that goes back forever

relationship with the Father

severed and forsaken

by the penalty of sin.

[Parade Orange]

as a gay man I have suffered a few of these things at points and I am telling ya it wasnt cushy.

[BibleShockers]

I didn't mean to imply that he had no problems, only that when you consider how much of the world goes to bed hungry each night, lives in pain from various diseases, is in abject poverty, has horrible parents, etc, Jesus lived a good life. People try to make it into a life of great misery, but it was not exceptional in that regard. He was not "homeless." He was an itinerant. Huge difference.

If you want to say that Jesus was crushed under the horrific burden of being misunderstood during his ministry, well, pardon me if I don't feel sorry for him.

All told, whatever mental anguish he (or you) endured, it is nothing worth comparing to a day in the life of a refugee of Darfur.

Nor was his death an unusually horrific one. It would have been a walk in the park compared to a burn victim or many cancers.

Bill Ross

[Parade Orange]

Bill,

Well U and I live a cushy life in america. We are so rich in comparison.

The wages of sin was a cancer stricken life and other things we as human beings go thru. Jesus wasnt called to that.

The penalty for

sin was made plain at the Garden of Eden.

The day u eat from the tree u shall DIE!

The annihilation of a created being.

No hope of eternity at your death.

Not a sleep.

Forever gone!!!

and by the way

U R RIGHT-

JESUS did live a cushy life if you take it apart on a deeper spiritual sense- He trusted GOD completely.

Thats JOY

and from here where I am sitting- Joy looks pretty cushy!

[Reddogs]

I think you all seem to be making a false assumption and trying to conform your text to reach the proper conclusions. The false assumption is that Jesus' suffering was a payment (commercial transaction) and/or a strict substitution for the punishment of others. Neither assumption is true.

The fact is that Jesus not only lived a relatively cushy life, but his death was, compared to many, a relatively easy death. Unlike most victims of Rome, Jesus was on the wood for only three hours. We are told that he "tasted" death. He got a sample of what people go through.

His death is never said to "pay" anything to anyone. To whom would he pay? To "the Devil?"

Nor was his death vicarious for others in the sense that he would be subjected to their punishment and somehow thus relieve them of the punishment (and allow God to vent his angry emotions and "spend" justice). All of that stuff is made up.

Nor is death "separation from God." Death is a dissolution of one's person. One ceases to exist. Well, at least in the OT. In the NT, the concept of an afterlife comes into play. But still, the second death is just a final annihilation. Obviously, Jesus didn't stay dead, right?

The cry "why hast thou forsaken me" should read "why have you left me in the lurch?" Jesus had prayed 3 times that his death would be swift - yet he was still alive. After his cry, he said "It (my suffering) is finished" and expelled his breath. There was no cosmic suffering, only physical and emontional - like all of us.

Bill Ross

I have to disagree, when Lazuras died, he did not cease to exist as Christ so vividly showed, and when Jarius daughter died, Christ made clear that she was just 'asleep'. But when the wicked recieve the eternal death of the seperation from God, there will be no coming back or awaking from the sleep of the grave or Hades, it will be the point of no return..

A Dead Girl and a Sick Woman

Luke 8

40Now when Jesus returned, a crowd welcomed him, for they were all expecting him. 41Then a man named Jairus, a ruler of the synagogue, came and fell at Jesus' feet, pleading with him to come to his house 42because his only daughter, a girl of about twelve, was dying.

As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him. 43And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years,[d] but no one could heal her. 44She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped.

45"Who touched me?" Jesus asked.

When they all denied it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing against you."

46But Jesus said, "Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me."

47Then the woman, seeing that she could not go unnoticed, came trembling and fell at his feet. In the presence of all the people, she told why she had touched him and how she had been instantly healed. 48Then he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace."

49While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. "Your daughter is dead," he said. "Don't bother the teacher any more."

50Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, "Don't be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed."

51When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child's father and mother. 52Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing," Jesus said. "She is not dead but asleep." 53They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54But he took her by the hand and said, "My child, get up!" 55Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.

[BibleShockers]

Reddogs, you did a very good job of arguing your point. I would have to say that you are right from the NT perspective.

>>>>I have to disagree, when Lazuras died, he did not cease to exist as Christ so vividly showed, and when Jarius daughter died, Christ made clear that she was just 'asleep'.

But I don't see where you disagree with me. This is what I said:

"...Nor is death "separation from God." Death is a dissolution of one's person. One ceases to exist. Well, at least in the OT. In the NT, the concept of an afterlife comes into play. But still, the second death is just a final annihilation. Obviously, Jesus didn't stay dead, right?.."

When a large population of Jews lived in Alexandria (a Hellenist city in Egypt of North Africa) they were strongly influenced by Egypts strong notions of an afterlife. When they translated SHEOL into Greek, they called it hADES - which was a huge leap. SHEOL was just the "pit" or "grave" but hADES was the abode of the dead - a gray world underground where people lived on after death.

So, I agree with you. I don't see where you disagree with me.

Bill Ross

[BibleShockers]

The point is that a post-Alexandrian Jew (like say the Pharisees) would have no trouble with the idea of people going from life into limbo, but Moses would find it ridiculous. He would say that when you die you return to your inanimate state. But the Egyptian concept of hADES said that when you died you went into an underworld.

Bill Ross

[silly]

Jesus died so we may live

Its that simple

Accept it in faith

[Reddogs]

The point is that a post-Alexandrian Jew (like say the Pharisees) would have no trouble with the idea of people going from life into limbo, but Moses would find it ridiculous. He would say that when you die you return to your inanimate state. But the Egyptian concept of hADES said that when you died you went into an underworld.

Bill Ross

Yes, many of these are pagan philosophies, that crept in with the consolidation of papal Rome, and some heathen ideas/views that the Jews had picked up.