When Does Probation Close?

[Gus Foster]

In light of all the current events, when should we say that probation is ready to close? Does it close on church leaders first? Does it close on the 'church' before it finally closes on the whole world?

Ellen White stated that the 7 thunders of Rev 10 was God telling His people about current and soon happenings?

What is He telling you?

[Woody]

Is there any reason that I should honestly care about when probation closes? Would this knowledge allow for me to have more time to go about sinning. Hey ... I accept Jesus as my substitute. My sins are covered. Bring it on Jesus. Come Lord Come. I really don't care when probation is. Come Lord Come NOW.

[Robert]

If you have ignored the call, "Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your heart..." day after day, year after year, then you could possibly harden your heart to where you have no desire to accept Christ's call to repentance. When that happens probation has closed for you. You are once lost, always lost.

Of course when you die, probation has closed for you also.

Rob

[Woody]

[Joe_in_RP]

"Ellen White stated that the 7 thunders of Rev 10 "

Could you give us a reference for that?

There are several probation's.

1) people in general. Their probation closes the second they die. There is nothing anybody can do once you are dead. People say ya well I don't care about that. Tell me about the others. But I have had friends die at 15,18, 23, 28, 35 years of age. Many never thought their probation would close. Many thought they had a lifetime to work this out. Probation could close today for you or me.

2) Probation for the living Adventists closes before the general public.

3) When probation closes for the general public, it's over. Jesus takes off His priestly robes and puts on His kingly robes and proceeds to earth.

Ezek 9:6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.

[Woody]

I am a citizen of Heaven NOW. Based on the merits of my Saviour.

[rush4hire]

Probation closes when you die in your sins or you die in faith. Probation also closes when God knows you are hardened in your sins to the point where you will never repent, even if God gives you billions of years. Probation also closes when you are sealed with the seal of God, so that God knows you will never sin.

Here's an example of 2 boys that hardened their hearts against reproof, and they where as good as dead:

[color:#BF0000]1 Sam. 2:24 Nay, my sons; for [it is] no good report that I hear: ye make the LORD's people to transgress.

2:25 If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall entreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.

Notice an exhortation is given and a very clear warning is rejected.

And that is the whole reason why men are condemned. For rejecting light.

[color:#BF0000]John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Now, on a global scale, it's the same. Just like the flood of Noah. Everyone gets a very clear warning, (much light), and a good chance to repent.

[color:#BF0000]Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev. 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

The whole world gets the message. Knowledge will increase to the point where no one on earth can claim ignorance concerning the issues at stake.

Quote:

In our day greater light and greater evidence is given. We have also their example, the warnings and reproofs that were presented to them, and our sin and its retribution will be the greater, if we refuse to walk in the light.

...

and the condemnation that fell upon them will fall upon us, only it will be as much greater as our light is greater in this age than was their light in their age. {1888 1057.6}

The greater the light rejected, the greater the condemnation. We have yet to see the greatest light of all. The greatest condemnation is taking the 7 last plagues.

The 144,000 will have an undeniable testimony to bear to the world. No one will have an excuse. No one will be able to say "We didn't understand clearly!" Everyone will make their choice to join with God's people, or actually try to exterminate them.

[color:#BF0000]Matt. 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What [is that] to us? see thou [to that].

27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev. 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

This is when probation closes permanently on all mankind. This is when Christ steps out of His office as High Priest and Intercessor for mankind.

[color:#BF0000]Rev. 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Rev. 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

The smoke in the temple indicates that Christ has left the temple, and there is no more Intercessor for mankind. There's silence for half an hour:

[color:#BF0000]Rev. 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

That's about 2 weeks between the time probation closes and the 7 last plagues are poured out.

[Gus Foster]

There are several references by EGW about this topic. From the web-site, http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/

here are a few:

Christ Triumphant pg 344

SDA Comm Vol 7 pg 971

MR No. 28 Vol 1 pg 99

MR Vol 119 pg 320

MR= Manuscript Releases

In every case she states this takes place after the 1st and 2nd angel's messages have done their work, and the rest of Dan & Rev will be totally revealed to God's sealed people. Especially in regard to time and events.

There is much Scripture that gives the same conclusion, noting that thunder, and the voice of many waters, is the voice of God and/or Christ directed to His people. Remember the occurrences that show Jesus speaking and it was thunder to unsaved.

Some of my favorites on this would be Ps 29:1-11; Ezek 43:2; 1:24; Job 37:1-5; 40:9; and one must read Jer 51:12-16, which refers to judgment of Babylon!

Anyone that wants to have better understanding of Revelation should look up the words and phrases in a concordance to get John's full reference to every particular event and meaning.

Do a concordance study on the word thunder(s)(ing).

[Gus Foster]

I'm sorry, I did not intend to antagonize Diotrephes, who vultures every suggestion made to Adventist forums. I was appealing to those who have not yet obtained, to those who sigh and cry for every soul who has not accepted the grace, love and mercy of their Savior, Jesus Christ. They know that Christ is building a new sanctuary "that He may dwell among (in) them.' And they are earnestly seeking the purging and cleansing that must occur in their lives before translation.

The end-time humility and endurance of Jacob's trouble is gut wrenching and all self-reliance and self-righteousness is banished from heart and soul.

It might well be that the most cherished of all thoughts, that we know all that Scripture has to offer, is replaced by an imminent need to be filled with the Spirit which will care for our every need, not our whims. To those, the 'thunders' will direct our activities, our thoughts. Our Lord has been so kind in these matters in yesteryear, pulling us from Sodom and Gomorrah and from the Holy City. (70 ad) We await His call to flee the city, and our human natures.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Probation closes when you die in your sins or you die in faith. Probation also closes when God knows you are hardened in your sins to the point where you will never repent, even if God gives you billions of years. Probation also closes when you are sealed with the seal of God, so that God knows you will never sin.

How does one know if one dies in one's faith? If I had died while I was a pagan would I have not been saved, though now I am a Christian? BTW, I was not a *bad* pagan. I did some evil things in the sight of the Lord, but for all intents and purposes, I was a better *Christian* to other people than real Christians were. Would God have looked inward on my heart and seen something that wasn't pagan, but truly reflected the heart of Christ? Would I maybe have been saved? One of those who didn't know the Master but somehow served Him anyhow?

[Woody]

I would declare you to be saved Pam. Why? Because God knows the end from the beginning. He knows how you would respond IF and when you would be presented the correct view of God. I suspect that you were into the pagan stuff because you did not really understand the real Jesus. So many that we see now as 'evil' ... are that way because they have not been shown the real Jesus. What they have done is to look to others ... the imitations. But not the real thing. We are judged fairly. We are judged at how we would respond IF we were shown correctly. He knows our hearts. He knows the end from the beginning. So, he knew what you would do and what your response to Him would be.

Just my thoughts on the issue. You are free to disagree ........ but we do have this promise of God :

John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me."

He is faithful.

[rush4hire]

@Rudywoofs: good questions.

How does one know if one dies in one's faith? If I had died while I was a pagan would I have not been saved, though now I am a Christian? BTW, I was not a *bad* pagan. I did some evil things in the sight of the Lord, but for all intents and purposes, I was a better *Christian* to other people than real Christians were.

[Woody]

Quote:

I guess I'm a legalist then.

Yes. We had that figured out long ago.

[John317]

Quote:

I guess I'm a legalist then.

Yes. We had that figured out long ago.

I'm ashamed to say it but on the threads here, Ellen White has also been called a legalist, even in the writings that express her mature views only a short time before her death. It's a term loosely used today against anyone who believes God wants them to obey Him and His commandments.

[Woody]

I would go one step further ...

God is a legalist.

He values His Law. It is a transcript of his character.

We are saved by the Law ... or should I say ... by His keeping of the Law.

God made the rules. But He saves us from the curse of the legal aspects of the law. So, I would say that EGW is in good company if she is a legalist.

[John317]

Is there any reason that I should honestly care about when probation closes? Would this knowledge allow for me to have more time to go about sinning. Hey ... I accept Jesus as my substitute. My sins are covered. Bring it on Jesus. Come Lord Come. I really don't care when probation is. Come Lord Come NOW.

Are all people ready for probation to close if they have accepted Jesus as their substitute? What does it mean to be ready for the close of probation and the coming of Christ? Is having the imputed righteousness of Christ all that matters, no matter what one's life and character is like?

[John317]

I would go one step further ...

God is a legalist.

He values His Law. It is a transcript of his character.

We are saved by the Law ... or should I say ... by His keeping of the Law.

God made the rules. But He saves us from the curse of the legal aspects of the law. So, I would say that EGW is in good company if she is a legalist.

That is taking great liberties with the term "legalist." That is not the way it is normally used.

When she has been called a legalist, has it been with your meaning in mind?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I would go one step further ...

God is a legalist.

He values His Law. It is a transcript of his character.

We are saved by the Law ... or should I say ... by His keeping of the Law.

God made the rules. But He saves us from the curse of the legal aspects of the law. So, I would say that EGW is in good company if she is a legalist.

That is taking great liberties with the term "legalist." That is not the way it is normally used.

When she has been called a legalist, has it been with your meaning in mind?

I dunno.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Is there any reason that I should honestly care about when probation closes? Would this knowledge allow for me to have more time to go about sinning. Hey ... I accept Jesus as my substitute. My sins are covered. Bring it on Jesus. Come Lord Come. I really don't care when probation is. Come Lord Come NOW.

Are all people ready for probation to close if they have accepted Jesus as their substitute? What does it mean to be ready for the close of probation and the coming of Christ? Is having the imputed righteousness of Christ all that matters, no matter what one's life and character is like?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I would go one step further ...

God is a legalist.

He values His Law. It is a transcript of his character.

We are saved by the Law ... or should I say ... by His keeping of the Law.

God made the rules. But He saves us from the curse of the legal aspects of the law. So, I would say that EGW is in good company if she is a legalist.

That is taking great liberties with the term "legalist." That is not the way it is normally used.

When she has been called a legalist, has it been with your meaning in mind?

[Robert]

Quote:

I guess I'm a legalist then.

Yes. We had that figured out long ago.

His eyes have been opened!

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

I guess I'm a legalist then.

Yes. We had that figured out long ago.

It's a term loosely used today against anyone who believes God wants them to obey Him and His commandments.

It's a term for those who think that they are measuring up and who judge everyone else for failing. Sure, God wants us to experience agape, but at the same time we are not under the law! The legalists try to place us under law, but we resist them.....We'll let them stay under law:

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

[Woody]

Yes Rob. Some ARE under the Law ...

I choose to be under Christ rather than cursed by the Law.

But then that is MY choice.

[BobRyan]

In Romans 3 we read about the depravity of the sinful nature.

For man to be saved he must be born again as we see in John 3. There is no "other solution".

If there is a time in your life when as a thinking responsible adult you were not born-again - you were not saved.

But the question of when probation closes is a good one - and I think the text quoted above going from Rev 15 to Rev 16:1 says it best. (thanks to Rush4Hire).

There we see that the 7 last plagues can not be poured out until the ministry in the sanctuary ends.

Also the point brought out from Ezek 9 was excellent as it shows the progression of the judgment event starting with the elders in the church.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

For the lost - the close of probation and our living in the last days simply highlights the urgent need to become a Christian now -- not later.

For the saved the close of probation is different. As some have pointed out - everyone's probation closes when they die -- so nothing new there. It closes. What is NEW is the idea of having it close -- and then you still live on.

That is a huge problem if you stop and think about it because it cuts deeper than simply making a decision for Christ that you will not later re-think or the idea that you will not later leap off into atheist-land.

Could it be that you are at that point "pre-forgiven" for all future sin?? (in which case the CoP is truly a NON-event -- simply an FYI for the believer, a "nice to know"). No need to make a fuss about telling anyone about it. It has little more substance than the already confirmed "you do not know what tomorrow holds - you only have today in which to accept Christ so do it now!" - and then in that case nothing at all "new" is added in the CoP message.

Or are you supposed to have stopped sinning by then - and this is the "significance" of Christ's ending the sanctuary service in Rev 15 prior to the plagues??

In which case the CoP is an "oh my goodness did we ever understate that one!!"

Bob