Is Organized Sports Satanic?

[Gus Foster]

EGW wrote in RH, June 13, 1907, "No Other Gods Before Me;"

"Satan has devised a multitude of ways in which to keep men from serving God. He has invented sports and games, into which men enter with with such intensity that one would suppose a crown of life was the to reward the winner."

There is much more in this article, where false gods reap our attention. We must have turned another page1?!

[Gail]

Gus are you talking within the church or without?

[Woody]

Here's more ...

Quote:

Manual Labor Versus Games

"The public feeling is that manual labor is degrading, yet men may exert themselves as much as they choose at cricket, baseball, or in pugilistic contests, without being regarded as degraded. Satan is delighted when he sees human beings using their physical and mental powers in that which does not educate, which is not useful, which does not help them to be a blessing to those who need their help. While the youth are becoming expert in games that are of no real value to themselves or to others,Satan is playing the game of life for their souls, taking from them the talents that God has given them, and placing in their stead his own evil attributes. It is his effort to lead men to ignore God. He seeks to engross and absorb the mind so completely that God will find no place in the thoughts. He does not wish people to have a knowledge of their Maker, and he is well pleased if he can set in operation games and theatrical performances that will so confuse the senses of the youth that God and heaven will be forgotten." CT 274

Quote:

"I was told by my Guide: "Look ye, and behold the idolatry of My people, to whom I have been speaking, rising up early, and presenting to them their dangers. I looked that they should bring forth fruit." There were some who were striving for the mastery, each trying to excel the other in the swift running of their bicycles. There was a spirit of strife and contention among them as to which should be the greatest. The spirit was similar to that manifested in the baseball games on the college ground. Said my Guide: "These things are an offense to God. Both near and afar off souls are perishing for the bread of life and the water of salvation." When Satan is defeated in one line, he will be all ready with other schemes and plans which will appear attractive and needful, and which will absorb money and thought, and encourage selfishness, so that he can overcome those who are so easily led into a false and selfish indulgence." 8T 52

[Woody]

Quote:

Gus are you talking within the church or without?

_________________________

Gail

While I am not Gus ... I will add this:

Spectators and yes ... those within ... members and Christians ...

Quote:

RH 03-06-94

“The panic of desire is so contagious that even church-members, professed Christians, are carried away with the excitement and give countenance to the races by presenting themselves as spectators. If they do not bet on the races, they are still one with the transactors in spirit, and their doings are registered and condemned in the courts of heaven. They are reckoned among the godless company, and must give an account to God for their wasted time and money."

Quote:

[Kevin H]

Looking at the context of the quotes and reading widely about what she says about sports you find her being upset at how many allow the sports to become central in their life. She also makes comments on how the ball games themselves are not objectionable but people allow them to take such a larg part of their life. Also there are statements about the feasco that occured with football at Battle Creek, which we love to take out of context and use against sports in general. Football at this time was very dangerous, deaths were common, and eventually the President of the United States had to step in to make it safer and more sane.

When Mrs. White owned Elmshaven, she gave a field to PUC UNDER THE CONDITION THAT IT BE USED FOR A BALLFIELD and she enjoyed attending the baseball games there.

We need to take all Mrs. White said and did. We need to see if she modified her views as she got older, and we also need to ask if Mrs. White was discussing something that was just her own, or if she was part of a movement (like with the feasco of football in the 1800s) and how she fit in the movement.

[Woody]

Quote:

We need to see if she modified her views as she got older, and we also need to ask if Mrs. White was discussing something that was just her own, or if she was part of a movement (like with the feasco of football in the 1800s) and how she fit in the movement.

Ouch. Not sure if this will go over well with many here. Sounds like what some would call herasy. You certainly are a brave one. Be prepared for the onslaught ....

[John317]

Yes, I was thinking about the baseball field at PUC, also. I have talked personally with people who saw Ellen White play baseball and catch with the young people there. She was not against a fun game of ball. That is not what she is saying at all if we read her in context.

And no, it is not a question of her changing her thinking about those things.

[Woody]

Thge title of this thread is 'organized' sports. I think EGW was talking about competition.

[Woody]

And no. Since EGW was talking about a vision of hers in one of the quotes ... I doubt that many will say she would modify what she said in later years.

[phkrause]

It seems that people take EGW out of contexts all the time. Or beat you over the head with this or that.

pk

[Woody]

It seems that people take EGW out of contexts all the time. Or beat you over the head with this or that.

pk

What I have found is that if you simply quote her without any commentary ... it is considered 'out of context' if the hearer doesn't like what she says. And if it REALLY hit home ... that is considered hitting them over the head.

Some would rather pick and choose what parts of Ellen they like. It is much more palatable that way.

[John317]

....

Some would rather pick and choose what parts of Ellen they like. It is much more palatable that way.

That's why it is best, as with the Bible, not to pick and choose but to take into consideration everything she wrote on a subject.

[Woody]

That doesn't always help unfortunately.

[John317]

Whether a person think it "helps" or not, it is still the only way to understand what anyone believes or teaches on a subject. I think we should do no less for anyone. It seems unfair to quote a few line here and there and ignore other, relevant statements that may shed light on what someone means.

One of the reasons for differences of view and theology among various denominations is that they often do not take into consideration everything the Bible says. This is particularly the case when it comes to what the Bible teaches about the nature of man and death. It also happens with regard to the Sabbath and the Second Coming.

[Woody]

What is one mans heresy is another man's truth. No matter how complete of a study on an issue with EGW or the Bible ... you still have the issue of difference in interpretations. So, while a quote may not be popular ... it may be truth to some and heresy to another.

[John317]

That is the same with the Bible.

The disagreements among readers don't necessarily mean the subject or the writing is unclear. The writing or the subject matter is not all that's important. (This becomes clear in any writing class where you hand out a student's poem or essay or short story for a class discussion.)

God is quoted in Jeremiah as telling us, "If you search for Me with ALL of your heart, you will find me." And Jesus said that the spiritual condition of a person's heart and the willingness to learn determines whether he recognizes the truth.

[Woody]

Quote:

"If you search for Me with ALL of your heart, you will find me."

You will find Jesus ... but that does not necessarily mean that you will find doctrines.

Can I ask you a question? Would you say that all Sunday keepers then do not love Jesus and are not searching for Him? What is wrong with these Sunday keepers?

The text clearly does not go where you are trying to make it go. Finding Jesus is a blessing that is needed. Finding doctrine is not ... and it is not required for salvation.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

"If you search for Me with ALL of your heart, you will find me."

...Can I ask you a question? Would you say that all Sunday keepers then do not love Jesus and are not searching for Him? What is wrong with these Sunday keepers?...

I wouldn't say that all Sunday keepers do not love Jesus. My experience is that many of them probably love Jesus as much if not more than some Adventists.

There are many reasons why people keep Sunday.

Here are some of the reasons many people keep Sunday:

1) They don't know anything different.

2) They have never had anyone study the Bible with them on the subject.

3) They don't believe it matters.

4) They don't believe our behavior is important.

5) They believe they are already saved and therefore they think they need not change.

6) They don't want their family and friends to ridicule them, which they think they would if they were to change.

7) They're not open to the changes the Sabbath would require them to make.

8) Some hear Sabbath keepers say that Sunday keepers could be right and that the Bible is not completely clear about which day is the correct one to keep.

9) Too much reliance on their pastors and priests and not enough reliance on personal Bible study and listening to the Holy Spirit speak to them as they read the Word of God.

10) Unawareness of the evidence for the Sabbath, having only been made aware of texts that appear to support the Sunday.

[Amelia]

You forgot one.

Tradition! Everyone in the family always went to church on Sunday so why change that.

[Neil D]

The answer to your question is-

Yes!

Now go away and let me sleep......

[rush4hire]

It is his effort to lead men to ignore God. He seeks to engross and absorb the mind so completely that God will find no place in the thoughts.

Exactly. Thank you Gus Foster and Redwood for these quotes. This is good information.

I was in the chat room of an Adventist dating site, a couple years ago, and they where always talking about sports. How worldly! I kept trying to have a spiritual conversation. Some people complained and I got banned. The owner of the site justified their fanaticism about sports. Now, I never condemned their worship of sports. I never even said anything about the sports. I was really trying to witness to the non-Adventist visitors to the site.

Are we more effective in witnessing, if we're just as worldly as possible? I know some churches use that. It's like they are saying: "You can join us and you don't have to give up the world". And you can tell by their careless attitude they are in rhythm with the world.

[color:#BF0000]James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

I know some will say I'm still trying to make a martyr of myself. I don't even care. If something like this happens, the story should be told. Many will deride, but there's a chance some will listen and take it to heart.

[color:#BF0000]Ecc. 7:2 [it is] better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that [is] the end of all men; and the living will lay [it] to his heart.

7:3 Sorrow [is] better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.

7:4 The heart of the wise [is] in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools [is] in the house of mirth.

7:5 [it is] better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so [is] the laughter of the fool: this also [is] vanity.

Ezekiel 9:4 Go through the midst of the city .. and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

I don't condemn people for watching sports, but there's a spirit there that can get you carried away. It's very deceptive and very subtle, and it's not discerned as a demonic spirit.

[John317]

Hey yeah, thanks for that addition. I did kinda put it in there but I didn't mention it specifically like I should have. I can think of others, as I am sure you can too, but those are enough for now.

[John317]

Quote:

"If you search for Me with ALL of your heart, you will find me."

You will find Jesus ... but that does not necessarily mean that you will find doctrines.

Do you pray with faith, as you open your open Bible, that God's Spirit will guide you into all the truth? Do you believe it and expect it? You may believe it, because Christ has promised. He said, "If anyone wants to do His will, he will understand whether the teaching is from God or if I am speaking on My own."

The Holy Spirit does guide our thinking if we want Him to. That is why it's important to pray before studying God's Word. The Spirit of prophecy has a lot to say about this, and of course the Bible does, as well. Without the right attitude, Bible study can do more harm than good. Not only will we not find truth, but our thinking can be led in the wrong way.

Quote:

The text clearly does not go where you are trying to make it go. Finding Jesus is a blessing that is needed. Finding doctrine is not ... and it is not required for salvation.

Believing false doctrine has led people to lose their salvation. Do you believe this?

Study the Bible and Ellen White on these subjects. False doctrine can lead us to be unfaithful to God.

Are you being faithful?

What does it mean to be faithful?

How can we be faithful to God if our beliefs and practices are based on lies and untruths? Doesn't truth, if put into practice, help us to be more faithful to God?

[rush4hire]

Another reason people don't keep the Sabbath is sports. High Schools play during Sabbath hours. They have to choose between Sabbath and sports.

"The reasons people don't keep the Sabbath" is a good and important topic. In fact it really should get it's own thread. I can't 'cause I don't have time.

Yes, I was thinking about the baseball field at PUC, also. I have talked personally with people who saw Ellen White play baseball and catch with the young people there. She was not against a fun game of ball.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Yes, I was thinking about the baseball field at PUC, also. I have talked personally with people who saw Ellen White play baseball and catch with the young people there. She was not against a fun game of ball.

Maybe she was just playing catch with young children and it became a rumor that got out of hand, as rumors go.

Are you sure the field was for the purpose of conducting baseball games? Are you sure the purpose was not games for children? Now where are the quotes all of a sudden?

I got it straight from Grace Jacques, Ellen White granddaughter, who lived with Ellen White at Elmshaven, near PUC. Mrs. Jacques used to teach at Loma Linda elementary school, and during that time she lived on our street and was friends of my family. We visited her later when she was the official guide at the Elmshaven home during the 70s. She has told on video about Ellen White playing ball and catch with the boys and girls at PUC.