US Politics and the Party Line

[Stan]

Maybe I am just viewing things wrong, it does seem at times, reasonable, rational folks, both here and in real life , are so blinded by the party line that they cease to think.

[carolaa]

Care to share any examples?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Maybe I am just viewing things wrong, it does seem at times, reasonable, rational folks, both heer and in real life , are so blinded by the party line that they cease to think.

I agree.

[Woody]

Maybe I am just viewing things wrong, it does seem at times, reasonable, rational folks, both here and in real life , are so blinded by the party line that they cease to think.

I have to confess that I may qualify. But I would view it as being a 'defender' of my party line. I know my party is faulty. But I don't want to have those faults known to others because I believe my party is the best to represent Christian values.

I suppose it would be better of me just to admit the faults ... but then there seems to be quite the competitive spirit here and that makes it difficult.

Okay ... go ahead and tear me apart now that I am done with my confession.

[fccool]

Maybe I am just viewing things wrong, it does seem at times, reasonable, rational folks, both here and in real life , are so blinded by the party line that they cease to think.

I agree, those kind people are just a bunch of ungodly liberal Democrats!

that's an example for you too carola

[Dr. Shane]

Maybe I am just viewing things wrong, it does seem at times, reasonable, rational folks, both here and in real life , are so blinded by the party line that they cease to think.

I agree and have been in those shoes in the past. I think what got be to looking at things differently is the Adventist church. As Adventists we tend to be more in the middle politically than to either of the extremes and we are very hesitant about taking political positions. I have really enjoyed Liberty Magazine, their television program and books written by Clifford Goldstien.

I am now of the opinion that we should avoid party affiliation. The political parties are most concerned about their own power. An example is the Iraq War. Had Gore won the 2000 election he would have invaded, all the Democrats would have supported it and the Republican would have opposed it. The two parties would have switch roles just to oppose each other. Those are not the kind of games we as Adventists should be playing.

We are citizens of democratic republics. We have a civil (not religious) obligation to participate in elections. We should be well-informed and vote in the way we think best for our respective countries. I see no reason we should align ourselves with political parties and numerous reason why we should avoid doing so.

[Neil D]

.... But I don't want to have those faults known to others because I believe my party is the best to represent Christian values.

[snip]

Okay ... go ahead and tear me apart now that I am done with my confession.

Redwood, I would like to know why a party MUST represent CHRISTIAN values when all that is required is fairness in delegating policy decisions?

It doesn't take CHRISTIAN values to say that between Redwood and Shane and Bravus and Neil that to share a sandwich, you must divide it in 4 pieces? All it takes is deciding what is fair...

Now, if we were on a deserted island, and all we had was a PB&J sandwich, we all might get a bit testy if one of us didn't do his fair share of the work needed to be saved....Then the reward would be maybe less than the 1/4 allowed, since the non-working person was not pulling his weight.

Both parties are quite capable of deciding fairness...but it occurs to me, that one party has been pretty adamant about maintaining a hierarchy [CEO, CFO, VP, supervisors, bosses, lead techs.] There is growing concern that the CEO is making 12 to 20 times the salary of his lowest paid worker...and for what? Once you have your comfortable retirement, cars, houses, toys, children s education funds, ....why do you need all that other money? When your lowest paid worker is struggling to pay his bills, and the CEO, CFO, and VP have no worries, where is that sense of social fairness? Why not be giving bonus' to the employess for thier hard work? Why not be giving larger dividends to the stock holders ?

This past week, we have seen a crime committed before our eyes and the American taxpayer is paying for the blunder and greed of CEOs and their management co-horts...Where is the honesty of these men who miss labeled risky debts as solid investments...?

Why is it, that government is only responsive to the people when it should be PROACTIVE and protect the people from easily seen catastrophes looming upon the future horizon?

Because the Republican party is NOT fair, and promotes social unfairness, all the while cloaking itself in the righteousness of church virtues...Jesus would stand there and condenm them for their greed.

[Bravus]

I do see a fair bit of this: if 'our guys' do it it's laudable, if 'your guys' do exactly the same thing it's execrable. I try to guard against it in myself but I'm sure I fall into it from time to time.

[jasd]

>>Because the Republican party is NOT fair, and promotes social unfairness,<<

The Republican Party took this Nation to War and emancipated the slaves. The South, thereafter, for generations paracticed segregation. [...] Should I continue?

Check the facts: Nixon did more for our minorities than did any Prez since Lincoln. [...] Should I continue?

tchah!

>>...all the while cloaking itself in the righteousness of church virtues...Jesus would stand there and condenm them for their greed.<<

Sheesh, there are more Democrat millionaires in Congress than Republican - and wish to goodness they even attained to virtues of any sort! [/kidding!] :-o

Besides, talking of religion... the NT provides the example - take from the nonproductive and give to the productive.

Say what!? --Pogo

Per the issue of partisan politics: just having fun

...really don't care for in-house polls, games, and such.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

Maybe I am just viewing things wrong, it does seem at times, reasonable, rational folks, both here and in real life , are so blinded by the party line that they cease to think.

I am now of the opinion that we should avoid party affiliation. The political parties are most concerned about their own power. ...

We are citizens of democratic republics. We have a civil (not religious) obligation to participate in elections. We should be well-informed and vote in the way we think best for our respective countries. I see no reason we should align ourselves with political parties and numerous reason why we should avoid doing so.

I agree with this, Shane.

[carolaa]

It would be nice if everyone got rewarded according to pulling their share of the weight. Then the value of stay-at-home moms and janitors and food workers would increase while others might decrease. I don't see what you are talking about as being necessarily a Republican or Democrat issue. It has to do with our economic system, which is capitalist and based on supply and demand - and greed - not according to what is fair. If you want fairness, then you need more of a socialist type of system. On the other hand, maybe fair doesn't necessarily mean equal.

[Neil D]

In some respects, you might be right...but in other respects, I don't think so...

In a capitalistic society, personal ethics need to be valued. What the CEO doesn't realize is that the people who work under him, are his responsiblity. He needs to pay them for giving part of thier lives to him and he needs to take care of them...because they are the ones who made him his money. From the janitor who is making the least amount of money to his VP, all are giving thier time to make sure that the company is doing well. THe bosses chose these men because of thier ability and thier willingness to work for the company.

But business have pared down so much, and removed all non-essentials to business, that ethics went by the wayside. So did caring for older workers... But we have gone to a disposable society. Even workers are disposable....Therefore, it pays the CEO not to know his janitor....so he doesn't have to care about him.

[Stan]

If I were to ask, is there any major political player that sounds like a Trailer Park Redneck.

Who would guess who I am thinking about?

[Dr. Shane]

I guess I don't know what a trailer park redneck sounds like. I grew up living between apartments and trailer parks so maybe I would be one. Not sure about that.

[Woody]

If I were to ask, is there any major political player that sounds like a Trailer Park Redneck.

Who would guess who I am thinking about?

I'll give it a stab. Have you ever heard Bill Clinton play the sax?

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

If I were to ask, is there any major political player that sounds like a Trailer Park Redneck.

Who would guess who I am thinking about?

I'll give it a stab. Have you ever heard Bill Clinton play the sax?

Oh plueeze...Dont you know jazz when you see it? Jazz is class man...not a redneck....

No, what you are looking for is a White guy, who plays country [with his guitar, or maybe not THAT sufisticated], but definately listens to it, hates Dixie Chicks, likes his 4x4 pick up, and has a bumper sticker on the pick up that says "I r a rednek" or one that says " Jeff Foxworthy is my hero"

[Dr. Shane]

Well, I play guitar... starting to feel a little uncomfortable. I already know that I am a gringo. Not sure if I am ready for the redneck label yet.

[Woody]

I will not take the bait ...

[Neil D]

Well, I play guitar... starting to feel a little uncomfortable. I already know that I am a gringo. Not sure if I am ready for the redneck label yet.

No worrys, Shane...I got the the pick up and the "Foxworthy is my hero" sticker....

[Woody]

Neil likes Fox? That is surely 'worthy' of more discussion.

[carolaa]

My guess is Sarah Palin.

[jasd]

>>I see no reason we should align ourselves with political parties and numerous reason why we should avoid doing so.<<

What of a Party having 28 planks in its platform? That depends...? upon the nature of those planks?

[jasd]

>>major political player<<

lotsa "major political players" who are not directly 'running' as are McCain and Obama/Palin and Biden. That said,

it's gotta be a white person, yes? what with red neck...

As long as Palin is mentioned, I segue:

Has Sarah Palin Been Picked as the Titular Head of the Coming Police State? – Naomi Wolf, huffingtonpost, Sept 24. ‘08

“Am I trying to scare you? I am. I am trying to scare you to death and ask you to scare your Republican and independent friends most of all.

[...]

Make no mistake: Sarah "Evita" Palin is Rove and Cheney's cosmetic rebranding of their fascist push: she will help to establish a true and irreversible "fear society" in this once free once proud nation. For God's sake, do not let her; do not let them.”

Sheesh! Putsch?

Naomi Wolf? yeah, Baja Mallik, CBC

[Dr. Shane]

My guess is Sarah Palin.

Sarah plays the flute not the guitar.

[carolaa]

I thought Stan was referring to the way they talk.