Who wrote the Book of Mormon?

[John317]

Mormons believe that we all lived in heaven as spirit beings before coming to this earth to learn by taking on bodies. There are lots of spirit beings that are looking for bodies. Hard to believe? Yeah, for me too, but it's what they believe.

An official teaching-- though politically incorrect to discuss it-- is that the darker races didn't do battle in heaven for God as hard as they should have, so they are born with darker skins. Some verses about this in the more recent editions of the Book of Mormon have been changed from the original "white" to "pure."

[John317]

They had a set of Journal of Discourses. Quite a volumes in that set.

...

These volumes are not that easy to get any more because they are not being published like they used to be. You used to be able to get them in Mormon Book Centers, but you can usually only find used copies now. They contain a lot of very controversial things, especially ideas by Brigham Young. There are actually a variety of beliefs among Mormon scholars and theologians about the final condition of the wicked, particularly Satan. For instance, some Mormon theologians-- those unafraid of "pushing the envelop"-- believe in a kind of annihilation of the truly wicked. Anyway, if you find any copies of those volumes, hold on to them.

Brigham Young believed Adam had been resurrected* prior to coming to this earth and implied that Satan had also been resurrected. Some of the beliefs are so terrible I wouldn't even want to post them. Most Mormons have no idea it's part of the Mormon beliefs because, as they will tell you, the church doesn't ever talk about them. Yet you can find discussions and essays about these some of them in obscure theological journals and books.

*See Historian's Office Journal, August 1859, church archives; see also JD 4:363-64, 372; 8: 179, 204, 279.

[John317]

An RLDS pastor in Iowa was showing me his inspired version. The Mormons call it the Joseph Smith Translation. The idea is that the Bible has been miscopied and altered, and Smith put it back the way it was supposed to be.

Yes, that's the so-called "Inspired Version of the Bible." It is referred to by Mormon as a translation but of course it was not translated from Greek or Hebrew manuscripts. It is merely what Joseph Smith claimed God showed him was in the original Bible said.

For instance, at Gen. 2: 7, it has God breathing an immortal spirit into Adam.

There is absolutely no manuscript evidence for that at all. It is the same for all Smith's changes. It is not even a Bible in the true sense of that word.

Mormon's view of a modern prophet is totally different from the Adventist view. Ellen White taught that her writings are to be tested by Scripture and that the Bible is the standard. For Mormons, the standard is Joseph Smith and they test the Bible by his writings.

On the version, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Translation_of_the_Bible

[rush4hire]

Interesting discussion.

Has anyone been able to watch "The God Makers"?

Part 1

Part 2

Or the other one?The Bible VS. The Book of Mormon

That last one can be found on google video. But I can't find "The God Makers".

download link

the page

[Pickle]

Originally Posted By: Pickle

They had a set of Journal of Discourses. Quite a [few] volumes in that set.

...

These volumes are not that easy to get any more because they are not being published like they used to be. ... Anyway, if you find any copies of those volumes, hold on to them.

Lo and behold, all the volumes are online at http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/ , and you can buy PDF's of them for $10, or a CD for $15.

Amazing.

[Pickle]

"We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed 'the man in the moon,' and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized."

(http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_13/JD13-268.html)

[Pickle]

"Men used to talk on this wise -'But would you believe in the Prophet if he should demand all your property?' Lucifer would suggest this idea to them. 'No,' says another, 'I would not.' 'Suppose he should come to you, and tell you, you must sell your farm in the east, and go to Kirtland, and consecrate your property to the Lord, would you do it?' 'No,' answers his neighbor, 'the Lord has no use for my property, I would not do it.' 'Well,' says one, 'do you think Joseph is right to dictate in temporal matters? 'No.' There were quite a majority, I believe, in the days of Joseph, who believed he had no right to dictate in temporal matters, in farms, houses, merchandize, [merchandise] gold, silver, &c.; and they were tried on various points.

"When the family organization was revealed from heaven-the patriarchal order of God, and Joseph began, on the right and on the left, to add to his family, what a quaking there was in Israel. Says one brother to another, 'Joseph says all covenants are done away, and none are binding but the new covenants; now suppose Joseph should come and say he wanted your wife, what would you say to that?' 'I would tell him to go to hell.' This was the spirit of many in the early days of this Church. ...

"What would a man of God say, who felt aright, when Joseph asked him for his money? He would say, 'Yes, and I wish I had more to help to build up the kingdom of God.' Or if he came and said, 'I want your wife?' 'O yes,' he would say, "here she is, there are plenty more.'

"There is another main thread connected with this, that I have not brought out. You know in fishing with the hook and line, if you draw out suddenly on the line when you have got a large trout, you may break your line; you must therefore angle a little, and manage your prize carefully. I would ask you if Jehovah has not in all ages tried His people by the power of Lucifer and his associates; and on the other hand, has He not tried them and proved them by His Prophets? Did the Lord actually want Abraham to kill Isaac? Did the Prophet Joseph want every man's wife he asked for? He did not, but in that thing was the grand thread of the Priesthood developed.The grand object in view was to try the people of God, to see what was in them. If such a man of God should come to me and say, 'I want your gold and silver, or your wives,' I should say, 'Here they are, I wish I had more to give you, take all I have got.' A man who has got the Spirit of God, and the light of eternity in him, has no trouble about such matters."

(http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_02/refJDvol2-3.html)

[Peace]

Rush, the google video by Living Hope Ministries is very interesting. Thank you. I have a "burning in the bosom" that The Book of Mormon is a book of fiction.

If you can find "The God Makers", I would love to see it.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

These volumes are not that easy to get any more because they are not being published like they used to be. ... Anyway' date=' if you find any copies of those volumes, hold on to them.

[/quote']

Lo and behold, all the volumes are online at http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/ , and you can buy PDF's of them for $10, or a CD for $15.

Amazing.

Thanks for telling me. I knew that you could access them online somehow because I talk occasionally to Mormons who read it online. But I had no idea you can get them on CD. I'd like to do that. So thanks again. They are good if you want to do a lot of work with Mormons.

[rush4hire]

Rush, the google video by Living Hope Ministries is very interesting. Thank you. I have a "burning in the bosom" that The Book of Mormon is a book of fiction.

If you can find "The God Makers", I would love to see it.

If you haven't seen "The God Makers", you need to. I posted links to the files. Here they are again:

Part 1

Part 2

Or you can get them from this page:

http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Mormon_God_Makers_Movie/index.shtml

Just download those files and open them whatever program you use to play digital media. Windows Media Player works for me. You can just drag the files to the playlist there, like it says.

If it says you need the codecs, just download and install this file from divx.com

http://download.divx.com/divx/abt/b2/DivXInstaller.exe

-----

Or you can just use VLC, which comes with divx. It's a media player, like Windows Media Player. I use it all the time, because it plays anything.

download vlc here

If you install that, it will make an orange cone on your desktop, like this:

While installing, you can check the option to use VLC to open all .avi files. If you don't want to do that, then just open VLC by double-clicking the orange cone, and drag the .avi files to that little window, that looks like this:

But once you can play those .avi files, you can watch all the videos at http://loudcry.org/video.htm . They have alot.

[rush4hire]

OK. I just found out the latest version of VLC is seriously bugged. I'm using 0.8.6c which I know to be stable.

http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vlc/0.8.6c/win32/vlc-0.8.6c-win32.exe

[Peace]

I was finally able to watch "The God Makers, Part 1". Very revealing video of the Mormon beliefs. I did not realize how much of the free masonry paganism is involved in their rituals. Do they still practice the blood atonement today?

I was not able to watch Part 2 and am wondering whether it is a continuation of Part 1 or is it the video that was made a few years later with the title of "The God Makers II".

[rush4hire]

It's just a continuation.

I don't know about the blood atonement. If it was carried out, probably no one would know about it. The only reason they found out about it then, was because they just happened to be doing research into the Mormons at the time.

I hope that woman's death wasn't in vain, though. She knew she was going to die for exposing the secrets of her order. That blood cries from the earth. People need to listen and take it to heart.

I'm no expert on the Mormons, but I have been studying the Jesuits. In their oath:

Quote:

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!

If you put yourself under such an extreme oath of loyalty, you bind yourself to a cause permanently. And that gives an individual a real sense of power, and of being an important part of a great cause. But at the same time, you bind yourself under a curse. You said, in an oath, that if you betray your order you want your brethren to cut your throat, so if you did betray your order, they would be justified in doing so.

And the Mormons do that too. If they want to advance to a certain rank.

These secret societies do keep things secret. On the inside, they don't even tell each other any more than they have to. And the more you can be trusted, the higher up you will advance, and the more information you're privy to.

And if you're willing to kill, you can really be trusted.

You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labors with the blood of the heretic; for "without the shedding of blood no man can be saved." Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me---