Am I frustrated? YOU BET!

[Ginge]

Fellow readers,

The following was posted on another website:

A General Conference official reports a growing problem of spouse abuse in the church. GC women’s ministries director Heather-Dawn Small says there’s an urgent need for abuse prevention. Read an interview with Small in this week’s Adentist Review. http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=2077

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The follow up to the above article took up 4 pages of discussion by reader's on that site, feeling that the denomination is not doing much to help the abuse in our church. We have posted on this website (and others) about how helpful our book can be for those that are being abused, to very little avail. Are we apathetic, or is it just easy to see the problem but not want to be part of fixing the problem. So here are our frustrations about all this discussion.

"Everyone has something to say about the "church, or denomination" not doing anything about abuse. I started a discussion, on 4 different websites, on abuse in the Adventist church in May, before our book came out, which was in July, in order to wake people up to the abuse issue. There have been long and sometimes emotional discussions. Who of you out there have been willing to go the next step, after posting, and actually buy the book and give it to your pastor or church library? Who has been willing to help us out by asking your ABC to order the books? Who has contacted their church'es Women's Ministry and ask them to promote the book at the next women's session? Who?

There is a lot of talk going on but I know of only 4 books that have been bought by anyone on these websites. There is a big pink banner advertising Polly's Place on one website and Stan has outdone himself to help advertise the book on this site, but Dr. Mable Dunbar is floundering for donations and even for emotional support.

Yes, the book is succeeding with a lot of hours on our part to contact the heads of Women's Org. everywhere. Mable and I are spending our own money to bring help and healing to the abused women in our church'es and there are many wome. We have orders for cases of books from So. Africa and So. Korea. They are suffering there also. I sent a case to a radio station in Tenn. that is using them for promotion to all-denominational pastor's in their area. I have an order for a case to go to the Adventist Women's Convention in Florida in Oct. "We Suffered In Silence" presents a source of help and hopefully healing to our hurting Adventist women.

You're right, part of the denomination may overlook the needs of our people (note again that the Womsn't Ministries, worldwide is open for information). People post that nobody is doing anything. Well, those of you reading this are NOT no-bodies you are all some-bodies. We have the opportunity to place a very good resource in leaderships hands. The more that all of you are willing to come forward and put your heart and money into presenting a frontal attack on Adventist abuse the bigger chance we have of actually showing the denomination that the people have something to say (and not just on a website).

Am I frustrated? Yes, I am looking for people that are more than talkers but are willing to be pro-active in this war on abuse. We writer of this book are only three, you are hundreds. If everyone of you that reads this post would go to our books website and order a book and then give it to your church leaders, pastor's, conference presidents, Women's ministry leaders and especially ask the ABC to order the book we will make a BIG impression. So are you with me? Mable and I are not personally making any money. Royalties will go to Polly's Place. But we DO want to make an impact on the denomination.

This article that started this whole discussion in the Sept. Review is the second on Adventist abuse in one year. Are you ready for a frontal attack?

Then go to http://www.preyerplanning.com/book/velva-holt.htm

If you can't buy the book then print off the book information and give it to all these people above.

We really need your help.

Virginia and Bob Coombs

PS: On Oct. 10 Stan will be posting an Interview between Dr. Dunbar, Bob Coombs and Virginia Coombs. See you there!

Dr. Mable Dunbar

[Gerr]

I am sure there is spousal abuse in the church. But how prevalent is it? Is there really a problem? I have yet to see it in the churches I have been a member of. Perhaps it is one of those hot potatoes we would rather keep in the closet. If we don't see it, how then can we deal with it?

Gerry

[rush4hire]

What kind of abuse are we talking about? Does it involved beatings and black eyes? Are they just getting into arguments?

Also those women who marry non-SDA men, and they get abused, they can't say the abuse is in the church, because the half of the marriage that's doing the abusing is not in the church.

I'm not saying that I think the problem is being exaggerated here. I'm just asking because I know nothing about this. I don't see people in church with bruises and stuff.

[cricket]

Regardless of whether or not the abuse is happening among persons with non-SDA spouses, the church has a responsibility to help those who are suffering from spousal abuse. Just because we don't "see" it, we still need to address it. Same principle goes with child abuse: the members of the church need to look for signs and need to address the issue as it comes up. Often, abused spouses (and children) will cover the bruises--both physical and emotional bruises, will lie about the abuse, and will do everything in their power to keep the abuse from being "known" in the church. That does not mean, however, that they do not want help, or that they would not welcome it, if it were available to them.

It is important to have policies and procedures in place for the times when abuse IS recognized. Without a plan of action, no one suffering from abuse will receive the help they need.

[Neil D]

I am reluctant to say something....Mainly because there is spousal abuse...and the church will NOT see it publically in the physical form....bruises will be covered up, people will call in sick, and other more inventive excuses will be made and placating a public.

The public MAY see VERBAL abuse, in the form of belittlement, slights, and put-downs...We have all seen where we can pridict marriages that are not going to last because of the way one spouse treats the other....

Now, having give the affirmation that this subject needs, I have a problem with this origional post.

Does it seem odd to you that the author of a book, is pushing for the book to be bought? The cry is that it is an urgent need. And while I agree that there may be pandemic problems, it seems a bit odd and a bit wrong for an author to go to specific religious circles, and convey in the most panick-stricken and urgent sense that we need to do something like buy this book for our churches and possibly another for our pastor...

There are alot of minstrys for battered wives and spousal abuse....and amazingly some are focused on christian women . And there are books....for example, "Violence Among Us" has a book called. "Ministry to Families in Crisis "

By Brenda Branson and Paula J. Silva

And

"The Emotionally Destructive Relationship: Seeing It, Stopping It, Surviving It"

Author: Leslie Vernick

And typically,in my experience, Adventist matterial on a subject [other than religion] has never been that good. Usually, outside sources are better suited to help heal...

Now, remember, I am not saying that the problem is not there...It is...I just question an author promoting a book on a site like this...

[rush4hire]

Does it seem odd to you that the author of a book, is pushing for the book to be bought? The cry is that it is an urgent need. And while I agree that there may be pandemic problems, it seems a bit odd and a bit wrong for an author to go to specific religious circles, and convey in the most panick-stricken and urgent sense that we need to do something like buy this book for our churches and possibly another for our pastor...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I sort of agree about the ballyhooing of one's own book. But the royalties DO go to Polly's Place...

[fun2believe]

So if the money goes to a good cause, then it's ok to dismiss the fact that it was ill gotten money?

I have to fully agree with the comments above about the intent of the author. I don't think anybody would say that spousal abuse, child abuse, or elder abuse is not a problem. But, problems can be dealt with in many ways, with many resources. And I'm not against promoting a book that can help people, as long as you are up front about what you are doing.

It didn't seem to me that the author was being up front about the promotion of the book.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

"Ill gotten money"?? I don't see anyone pointing a gun to anyone's head to buy the book.

[Gail]

I have a hard time with trying to guess the author's intent as well.

No matter what the intent (does this even matter?), a good resource book that would help people is appreciated. It can join other good resources.

[fun2believe]

I didn't say that anyone was using a gun. You don't have to "force" people to manipulate them in an unhealthy manner.

Anytime you attempt to manipulate people (one example being spamming websites about an issue you just wrote a book about and are trying to sell), and deceive them (one example might be stirring up the pot to get people excited about a book you just wrote and are trying to sell), you are gaining not from wholesome methods, but by deceit. And when has deceit been a positive attribute?

[fun2believe]

Being victim myself of abuse as a child, I'm ALL for anything that can help.

But you MUST be upfront about your motives, or you look just as bad as the abuser. Truth is king. And if people start to question your motive, they will question your content as well.

[Ginge]

OK, here goes one of the 'books' authors. I was very reluctant to blow my (our) horn about buying the book. I know I really came across strong and I appologize for that. In fact it has taken me 3 days to get the nerve to come back and see what was being said. I am so appreciative with all the discussion, questions and even concerns.

If you would like some of your questions answered then check in to the Interview this coming Fri. evening (check time). All three authors will be available, including Dr. Dunbar. Post your questions and maybe get some answers.

If you read again what I said on the first post you will see that there is no monetary reward for the authors in selling the book. I never intended to be an author of such a difficult subject. As with most abuse you think you are the only one that has that in your life. Until I got involved with the book I lived a life of denial where the church is concerned, I just knew what my mother and myself went through.

It seems to be the right time within the church to present these issues because the Review/Herald is bringing the issues out. The only reason to promote such a book is because our denomination does not seem to have resources on its shelves from Adventist writers. Dr. Dunbar states that when abused Adventist women come to her they want to stay in Adventist safe houses and read Adventist books. That is our purpose for writing.

This has become a ministry I wasn't really wanting to have. I guess, by asking for your help I was hoping to spread the load onto more shoulders. I am sorry if I offended anyone with my enthusiasm to bring some kind of light back into the eyes of hurting women and men. My mother's purpose for writing her story was to warn pastor's and their wives of the dangers of not being faithful to each other. She lived the pain. She is now deceased but her wish was that no woman would have to spend 30 years of her life having to be 'silent' about her abuse. You don't have to show bruises on the outside to be bleeding on the inside.

Blessings Virginia

[BobRyan]

I am sure there is spousal abuse in the church. But how prevalent is it? Is there really a problem? I have yet to see it in the churches I have been a member of. Perhaps it is one of those hot potatoes we would rather keep in the closet. If we don't see it, how then can we deal with it?

Gerry

I heard someone in leadership say recently that abuse of women and children and divorce rates are roughly the same inside as outside the church.

Among a number of contributing factors - it means that pastors in general are not "stepping on toes" in these areas enough to make a dent. It could be that they simply are not aware of the problem or they feel it is more damaging to the congregation to mention the problem. However you can't really get much worse than "the general public -- no SDA sermons at all". (which apparently is what is being claimed)

To change the people - we would need pointed sermons that tactfully address the seriousness of the problem and identify solutions for the entire congregation.

in Christ,

Bob

[carolaa]

I am sure there is spousal abuse in the church. But how prevalent is it? Is there really a problem? I have yet to see it in the churches I have been a member of. Perhaps it is one of those hot potatoes we would rather keep in the closet. If we don't see it, how then can we deal with it?

Gerry

You raise an interesting point. What is the best way to help families when none of the members are willing to come forward. Sometimes we suspect something is wrong, but how can we know for sure and be of help if they don't come forward?

[cricket]

The best way to help families is to LOVE them.

Befriend them, get to know them, invite them into your homes, share Sabbath meals with them, do activities with them, become interested in their lives; carpool with them, pray with them, bake a cake for them; go shopping with them, share funny e-mails with them, call them, chat with them, go camping with them; laugh with them, ask them their opinions, listen to them when they speak, help them to open up, invite them to a fancy dinner, play charades, cook together, play video games together; go to a rodeo together, get a facial together, offer to take up their recycling, send them a get-well card when they're sick; scratch an itch for them, smile at them, shake hands with them, help them change their flat tire, carry their books for them, help them with raking the leaves, offer to change the batteries in their smoke alarms; let the kids play together, read the Bible with them, share a good book with them, take an interest in their hobbies; bake them some cookies, help them with house-cleaning, loan them your lawnmower, notice them, make an extra effort to be friendly.

I guarantee you, if you do these things, you will win a friend for life and will be able to see when problems arise in the home, and will be able to help better than just someone in the church they don't know.

Folks, this is what Christianity is all about. It's not about pointing fingers of blame, it's not about preaching "fire and brimstone", it's not about the condemnation of the sinner. It's about loving one another as Christ loves us.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The best way to help families is to LOVE them.

Befriend them, get to know them, invite them into your homes, share Sabbath meals with them, do activities with them, become interested in their lives; carpool with them, pray with them, bake a cake for them; go shopping with them, share funny e-mails with them, call them, chat with them, go camping with them; laugh with them, ask them their opinions, listen to them when they speak, help them to open up, invite them to a fancy dinner, play charades, cook together, play video games together; go to a rodeo together, get a facial together, offer to take up their recycling, send them a get-well card when they're sick; scratch an itch for them, smile at them, shake hands with them, help them change their flat tire, carry their books for them, help them with raking the leaves, offer to change the batteries in their smoke alarms; let the kids play together, read the Bible with them, share a good book with them, take an interest in their hobbies; bake them some cookies, help them with house-cleaning, loan them your lawnmower, notice them, make an extra effort to be friendly.

I guarantee you, if you do these things, you will win a friend for life and will be able to see when problems arise in the home, and will be able to help better than just someone in the church they don't know.

Folks, this is what Christianity is all about. It's not about pointing fingers of blame, it's not about preaching "fire and brimstone", it's not about the condemnation of the sinner. It's about loving one another as Christ loves us.

And *that* can be the beginning of what the 1st century church was all about....

[fun2believe]

Amen!