Palin & Obama

[Dr. Shane]

Listening to Governor Palin is inspiring to me. She motivates me to be more civicly active. She inspires me to be more involved in my community, helping students and schools, helping small business owners get started and helping workers acquire skills. No one has inspired me as much civicly since Ross Perot - and I voted for him twice.

Obama inspires me much the same way but to a lesser degree. Obama's record of working as a community organizer, joining a Christian church with a help-the-poor message and giving up high-paying jobs to work where his passion is shows that he walks the walk and doesn't just talk the talk. Obama's commitment to his family which includes setting one day a week aside just for them does not fail to inspire me either.

Both Palin and Obama are fantastic politicians able to inspire Americans to greatness. However only Obama is on the top of the ticket. Normally that would tip the scales in his favor for the undecided voter. However Palin is young enough that if McCain is elected she would have a good shot at being his successor. Rumor has it that McCain has considered serving only one term if elected which would give Palin a real shot in just four years. Yet if Obama wins Palin could still have a shot at the Presidency in four or eight years.

They are both great candidates and choosing between the two tickets if a very hard decision for someone who is undecided like me.

[carolaa]

I agree both are inspiring as far as getting more involved in the community. I'm not sure how much that qualifies either candidate for the presidency, though. On the other hand, I wish more politicians were as inspiring in that way as they are.

[Neil D]

I admit to not seeing a lot of day to day commentary on the election....but after seeing the VP debates, I can see where Palin, as she continues to harp on her grand record, is nothing more than a hypocrite....Based upon several different sources, who say the same thing, that her record as mayor was not a reformer, but maverick though she was, left the town in several hundred thousands $$$$$$ in debt...And though she seems pretty popular in Alaska, I have to say that there are some attitudes up there that just don't make sense...they keep, figuratively speaking, hitting thier head against the wall, and expecting the outcome to change....

[Dr. Shane]

I have seen and heard a lot of personal attacks on Obama too. Some of them are very vicious. But I try not to let them play into my decision about how I am going to vote. Most of the personal attacks on both Obama and Palin are simply partisan done by people who have already chosen who they are going to vote for. I have heard some go so far as to call Obama a communist and others go so far as to call Palin a hypocrite. It is despicable how low some will sink to try and attack candidates they have already decided not to vote for.

[BobRyan]

Obama's voting record is the most extreme of all leftist groups in the senate.

Obama's work with Acorn is more of a minus than a plus given the fact that we are now seeing Acorn participating in voter fraud and we have seen in the Economic special report done last Saturday night that Acorn pushed to black mail financial institutions into makeing unsave subprime loans.

Obama has the least experience of any presidential candidate by either party in the past 150 years!

But really -- all that is just fluff for discussion.

The real moral issue for SDAs is far bigger than the politics.

1. The Value of human life

2. The moral issue of the gay agenda

Both of which are topics addressed in Lev 18 - as being something that brings the downfall of even a non-Bible non-Christian state.

It is interesting the historic "activist" position that Ellen White took on those issues and insisted that the SDA church take on moral issues being voted that were not dealing with forms of worship.

She argued that we should uphold the value of human life even if it led to civil war (which it did in her case)

she argued that we should vote on moral issues not related to forms of worship even if that vote were held on Sabbath.

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/191700/Re_Proposition_8_California#Post191700

in Christ,

Bob

[Neil D]

That is a matter of interpretation, Bob. and one that has been discussed many times here....

Many people have various values, and a quick overview shows that some can not get past concret thinking...IOWs, they can not think outside a box.

Not a judgement, but an actual fact. These people need a solid reference point, ie a bible verse, to logically process thier positions. Your Lev. text comes to mind with the "Abomination". [i guess that is something really really bad.]

However, there are some who work from principles, where the value is dynamic, ie the 10 commandments with Matth 5-7. "Thou shalt not murder" goes to "thou shalt not be angry with your neighbor to the point of calling him names." which also means that a person needs to figure out more creative ways to get along with that poticular neighbor....

[John317]

Obama's no communist, but he is a socialist. No other presidential candidate of the Democratic party, besides Obama, has ever campaigned for socialists.

His plans for bigger government will definitely require more taxes if he wins and gets his way with government programs.

He already said several times that he thinks of taxes as a good way to spread the wealth around and that people ought to be happy about it. Where does this language and thinking derive, historically?

I'm for spreading the wealth around, but it should be voluntary and not forced on people by the government through progressive taxation. For one thing it hurts the economy when you take money from people who have worked for it and who are investing it in the economy, and give it to people who either aren't using it for the benefit of the community or aren't even producing.

Remember that in the last debate, Obama could not even give a single example of any programs he would cut to save money. Yet he says he plans to increase government expenditure. That difference can only come through increased taxation.

[BobRyan]

I agree with the Matt 5 principle of expanding and widening the scope of the commandments - and so if you want to apply that also to the Lev 18 statements about not killing infants and and about the abomination of the gay agenda resulting in God's bringing down of non-Bible non-Chritian non-believing nations -- historically -- I agree.

in Christ,

Bob

[fccool]

Obama's no communist, but he is a socialist. No other presidential candidate of the Democratic party, besides Obama, has ever campaigned for socialists.

His plans for bigger government will definitely require more taxes if he wins and gets his way with government programs.

Republicans of today are not far behind though... The only difference that I've seen thus far is that Republicans choose to tax the future generations .

I've lived during the late USSR era, and you can ask many people and they'll tell you that socio-economically... USA is not too far away from what we'd call Socialism. Americans are paying more than 50% for government financed programs, and if we'd include the debt... the number would be more like 70%. This is a hard fact irregardless of who is in charge.

[Woody]

Saw Palin and McCain talkin in WI today. The audience was loud and angry at McCain for not talkin about Obama and those he worked for and associated with. The list is long but particularly the ACORN issue and Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers.

Folks ... if you want to know about someone ... look at who they work and associate with.

[John317]

I agree with a lot that you say here, fccool. But I believe that based on McCain's record, he would try to decrease government spending, but Obama would certainly increase it. Obama has never voted to lower taxes but only to make government bigger and costlier.

[fccool]

Actually, they would be about the same IMO. They'd only be spending in different sectors. McCain will overspend on military and cut other things, while Obama will cut military and spend on other things.

I honestly don't see how McCain can ballance any budgets when military spendings are nearing a trillion/year.

[carolaa]

The Republicans and Democrats are just different sides of the same coin. There's not that much difference between them. If you want something different, you have to look at the 3rd parties.

[Bravus]

In any rational time and place, Palin's tenure as VP candidate would have ended with this one answer:

Quote:

That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, we’re ill about this position that we have been put in. Where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it’s got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade — we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation.

Tell me again how she's so much more experienced and qualified than Obama?

[Dr. Shane]

I don't see anything wrong with what is being quoted there. She is saying the bailout needs to be about creating jobs, reducing taxes, health care reform and reducing spending. Some of which, she proposes can be done through free trade.

Her grammer isn't the best but I have seen Obama make mess of some sentences too.

[Neil D]

You know, I suspect that everyone here would say that I am not qualified for the White House. Some of you would say that because of political differences. Some of you would say that because you know I just ain't smart enough....And I would tend to agree with you guys...

But I definitely want the President and the VP to be smarter than ME when they are in the White House. I don't want some Joe the plumber in there doing fixin' the pipes of the White House while the country is going to some mythial place in a handbasket, nor dealin' with Putin and trying to fix his pipes....

No, I would rather have someone who is NOT an aged man with a young hottie soccor mom for a VP, and acts like a babe during every interview that I have seen.

[Bravus]

Shane, that is very clearly the answer of someone who does not understand the question or know the answer. I'm a high school teacher, I've seen the phenomenon enough to recognise it! It's not a grammar problem, it's a comprehension problem.

[Taylor]

The Republicans and Democrats are just different sides of the same coin. There's not that much difference between them. If you want something different, you have to look at the 3rd parties.

There is some truth to that.

[John317]

But we can't really say that this election. There is a big difference between Obama and McCain. It is probably the clearest choice Americans have had since Reagan and Carter in '84. It is similar too.

[Taylor]

The 3rd party's opinion or views on issues is still much different than either Obama or McCain...my only point.

And no I don't think the "choice" has been so clear...becuase there have been strong negatives on both sides at various times...

[Dr. Shane]

I think both are good candidates. Obama is a bit of a wild card. With McCain and Palin we know what we are going to get. America is a good country and they will not do anything drastic to change that. With Obama and Biden it appears that they will be a throw-back to the Clinton years. They will stick their finger in the wind and govern with the polls. That is not so bad either. However there is the unknown with Obama. He may do something radical that could make the country a lot better or, be disastrous and make things a lot worse.

[Tom Wetmore]

...With McCain and Palin we know what we are going to get.

Yep, and what you see is what you get and that is what is so utterly scary. An angry erratic old man and a ruthless pitbull with lipstick, both of whom are out of touch.

Originally Posted By: Shane

With Obama and Biden it appears that they will be a throw-back to the Clinton years...

Hmmmm... Let's compare now with the Clinton years... Hmmm... things were pretty darn good then. OK, let's do that "throw-back" thing!! Sounds good to me!

[olger]

You can have your homo gays in the army..

Pillaging the White House upon exit..

Pardoning a large number of criminals upon exit..

Public moral failure that showcased Bills pathological lying talents...

Closing off America's richest oil reserve to preserve the ooga booga bug & mollify the GANGgreens...

Please take a double helping for the journey..

`oG

[carolaa]

But we can't really say that this election. There is a big difference between Obama and McCain. It is probably the clearest choice Americans have had since Reagan and Carter in '84. It is similar too.

But they are both beholden to the corporate sponsors and will do pretty much what they want them to.

[John317]

Once they are in the White House, most presidents have made an attempt to keep some of their main promises because they usually want to win a second term, and also because they are interested in how history will view them.

But after they're elected they don't have to do what those corporate sponsors tell them to do. Obama has already made some of his sponsors angry at him, such as MoveOn.org. Kennedy didn't always do what was wanted of him by those who got him into office. Same with Nixon and even Reagan. 9/11 was the cause of Bush's doing a lot of things differently than he otherwise would have done. And look at the difference between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. Clinton was also quite a bit different from the elder Bush. So the party in the White House and in the majority in the House can still make a lot of difference in the direction the country goes.

The biggest difference, though, would be if either Ron Paul or Nader were put in the White House with a conservative party in the majority for Paul, or if Nader was in, a very liberal congress. Then you would see this country change directions drastically.