Lazarus SLEEPS I go that I may Wake HIM John 11:11

[BobRyan]

"Our Friend Lazarus SLEEPS I go that I may wake HIM" John 11:11

Should Christ have said "the BODY of Lazarus sleeps I go that I may wake IT"??

Or is Christ realling arguing that the PERSON sleeps in death even though the body (this decaying tent of 2Cor 5:1-5) is being destroyed - returning to DUST and ashes?

Thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

B Humble - posting on the "Commandments Changed" thread

Originally Posted By: B Humble

Bob, you've done a great job of showing that each man is EITHER punished or rewarded in EXACT measurement "according to his deeds". I would also not the soul sleep is not one of the things Paul promises to the unrighteous. He only promises: WRATH, INDIGNATION, TRIBULATION AND DISTRESS. They will wish they were "asleep".

I will grant you there is not much about the wicked "sleeping" in the writings of Paul. But Christ does argue the case in John 5 that all who sleep will be awakened to either a resurrection of life or one of death.

And in Matt 10:28 we have this statement contrasting the first death where they "kill the body but have no power to kill the soul" vs the fiery hell event where God "destroys BOTH body and soul"

in Christ,

Bob

"sleep" or "sleeping" is a metaphor for death, because while the body is at rest, the soul is still alive and active.

You only quoted 1/2 the verse in Mt.10:28. Christ first said, IN THE MOST PROMISING WAY TO CONSOLE THE FUTURE MARTYRS that when the persecutors "KILLED" THE BODY, THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL. And because these persecutors were NOT able to KILL the Soul, THEY HAD MUCH MORE FEAR HIM (CHRIST) WHO WAS ABLE TO "DESTROY" (NOT KILL) both BODY IN SOUL IN GHENNA.

Now notice the SDA error. According to SDA theology, the persecutors ARE ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING THAT CHRIST IS ABLE TO DO. THEREIN IS AN ENORMOUS ERROR. ACCORDING TO SDA THEOLOGY THE PERSECUTORS HAVE THE SAME POWER AS CHRIST!

The truth is the this: The persecutors can only kill the body and not the soul. The soul lives on as Christ says in Mt. 10:28. BUT WHY SHOULD THEY FEAR HIM THAT IS ABLE TO DESTORY BOTH BODY AND SOUL? Because, Christ will throw both body and soul in to ghenna where they will experience, NOT SOUL SLEEP, BUT EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT AND TORMENT form which there will be NO ESCAPE.

The SDA theology is that Christ and the wicked will only be able to send you into sleep. But, Rev.11:13-15 promises THERE IS NO REST, THEY ARE TORMENTED FOREVER AND EVER. And therefore, Christ said, Fear HIM over the persecutors!

Destroy does not mean to annihilate or put to sleep, it means to means to bring to ruin. As one can "destroy" his car, by wrecking it. It doesn't mean it vanished into thin air, it means it doesn't serve the purpose for which it was made. Therefore, you better fear God than the persecutors. The persecutors can only torment you for a few minutes, months or years. The punishment from God will be unending.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

And in Matt 10:28 we have this statement contrasting the first death where they "kill the body but have no power to kill the soul" vs the fiery hell event where God "destroys BOTH body and soul"

"sleep" or "sleeping" is a metaphor for death, because while the body is at rest, the soul is still alive and active.

[BobRyan]

What happens when humans die - was moved/merged etc -- this is the same topic but has fewer posts for ease of reading. I don't care which topic thread continues the discussion - but I would like to know which one is selected and hopefully one that has something less than 70 pages.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

What happens when humans die - was moved/merged etc -- this is the same topic but has fewer posts for ease of reading. I don't care which topic thread continues the discussion - but I would like to know which one is selected and hopefully one that has something less than 70 pages.

in Christ,

Bob

Great idea, Bob. I hope those who want to talk about this subject will find this thread because we've had several questions about it. I think it's a great topic.

One of the last things we were talking about on the other thread had to do with the Rich Man and Lazarus. B. Humble mentioned that these verses were a strong evidence for the belief that the righteous dead go immediately to be in the "presence of God's grace" whereas the wicked dead go to be tormented in hell.

Is this true?

[BobRyan]

He also stated that it did not matter if it were a parable or not -- he apparently intends to have parables "walk on all fours" - not simply arguing for the lesson of the Parable as Christ taught it "If they do not believe Moses then neither will they believe though someone were to rise from the dead".

However we see the same uses of parable in places like Judes 9:8 "The trees went forth to elect a king" -- parables are intended to illustrate a point in fiction.

Thus the "praying to the dead" seen in Luke 16 is fiction - and not an argument for praying to the dead.

Thus Abraham "in charge" of all dead saints in heaven is fiction.

Thus the "no appeal to God -- just appeal to Abraham" idea of Luke 16 is fiction.

Thus the "all dead saints really in Abraham's lap" idea of Luke 16 is fiction.

in Christ,

Bob