Satan's great lie

[skyblue888]

SATAN'S GREAT LIE

In chapter one, verse one, of the book of Job, the God of Heaven describes Job as being a perfect and an upright man. In other words, Job did keep the law of God to the satisfaction of the Lord Himself, for, if He should describe Job as being perfect and an upright man, then he must have been just that.

It follows then, that the life of Job was a clear-cut proof that the argument of the devil that the law could not be kept by human beings, was a false argument indeed. If Job was keeping that law, then any other man who would walk with God as Job did, could also keep that law. The very life of Job proved that the claims of the devil were false. The law of God was not too difficult for man to obey. Deut.30:11-14.

Knowing full well the stand of the devil, and the arguments that he used to maintain his position, the Lord laid out a very definite challenge before him on the occasion when the Sons of God met together for council. This is recorded in verse eight of the first chapter.

"Then the Lord said unto Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil."

Let us not make the mistake of thinking that the Lord was taunting Satan, because it is not in the heart of the Lord to do such a thing. Instead, He was making a great and loving appeal to him. He was saying in effect, 'Satan, why go on longer adding sin to sin, and building for yourself a greater retribution when the case is closed?' Job has demonstrated that the law can be kept and so your whole position is proved wrong.'

But would the devil admit that his whole position was so evidently wrong? Never! When the Lord said that Job was living a perfect life, then that was exactly what Job was doing, and it was more than the devil could do to find anything that Job was doing that was actually wrong. In his reply to God, he did not attempt to find any fault with Job. Rather he admitted that the Lords claim was quite true and right. Knowing better than to attack from this angle, he turned instead to impugn the motives of the servant of the Lord and even of the Lord Himself! He charged Job with self-seeking and self-serving, and the Lord with underhandedness!

"Does Job fear God for nothing," he asked? "Have you not made an hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the works of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But now, stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face!" Job 1:9-11.

This is a very heavy charge to lay to the Lord. It was the charge that God and Job were working hand in hand to prove the devil wrong by putting up an artificial case. The Lord was paying Job very handsomely to serve him faultlessly, and Job, as an hired servant, was responding very well by giving the Lord what He wanted of him. All that was needed to reveal the true nature of the case was for God to cease the payments, and in no time the servant would curse God and obey the devil. Then it would be seen that, after all, the law of God could not be obeyed in all circumstances, and that the case of Job proved nothing at all. Such in effect was the argument that the devil put to the Lord on that occasion.

It was entirely a false argument, and the Lord knew this, and He was well prepared to let the battle between the good and the evil be carried one step further, so that righteousness could be vindicated and the enemy of His people exposed. So He told the devil that he could go ahead and test his argument by taking the possessions of Job.

So the case could now be settled only by delivering Job into the hands of Satan to rest and to prove him. And how the devil went to work to break Job at all costs. He swept away all his possessions, and killed all his children with devastating suddenness. As shock after shock fell upon him, Job endured the storm and did not fall in the least. Calmly and patiently he said, "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." Job 1:21.

And even yet the devil would not admit defeat, and so the Lord allowed him to take away his very health, until in utter misery he sat on a heap of ashes to absorb the superations, and wished that he had never been born, but still his loyalty to God remained steadfast.

Now that the devil had reduced him to this desperate situation, he brought to him three of the notable theologians of the time, and these sat down with him to counsel with him in this dark hour. And we can say without fear of contradiction, that although these men were theologians and professedly the ministers of the gospel, it was the devil who brought them to Job, and it was the devil who used them in an attempt to deceive Job with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible to live righteously. With weighty and solemn words they pressed upon Job the discouraging idea that if anyone was wicked he certainly was, for the Lord never punished anyone who was undeserving of it anyway.

But how is it that we know positively that those men were speaking the devil's arguments? The evidence is right in the book itself. Please turn to Job 42:7, and there we read these words: "The Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends: for you have not spoken of Me the thing that is right, as My servant Job has."

This is the word of the Lord. Therefore it is the truth. So we must conclude that if Eliphaz has spoken that which was not right, then he had been speaking a lie. And if he had spoken that which was a lie, then he certainly had not spoken it of God but of the devil, who is the father of all lies. Therefore, it was the devil and not the Lord who had sent Eliphaz and his companions to "advise" Job. They were his mouthpiece and as such expressed his thoughts and his ideas mixed, of course, with some truth, as always! Now let us turn to the fourth chapter where we find there the devil stating in plain terms the charge that it is impossible for human beings, in this life, to keep the law of God perfectly.

Verse one of the chapter identifies Eliphaz as the speaker. Now, what gives the argument greater weight is that he states that he received this "by inspiration." In verse 12-14 he describes his going into a night vision, and in verse 15, he says, "Then a spirit passed before my face, the hair on my body stood up: It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance. A form was before mine eyes. There was silence: Then I heard a voice saying..."

Thus Eliphaz describes his inspiration which he claimed to be from God, but which the Lord denied as coming from Him when He charged Eliphaz with speaking that which was a lie. And now here in verse 17 and onwards, we have, in plain language, the very charge of Satan that the law cannot be kept perfectly. Here is one place where he has really come out in the open with it. We shall quote it from the Revised Standard Version.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" This is a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question is really a statement framed in question form to give the statement more impact. What Eliphaz is really saying, as he himself makes plain in the next verse is this: 'Surely you are not going to even make so much as a suggestion that you could believe that it is possible for a mortal man to keep the law of God perfectly?'

That this is the meaning and understanding, is evident from his following words. He goes on to say, "Even in His servants He puts no trust and His angels He charges with error. How much more those who dwell in houses of clay?" Verse 18.

And all this is uttered in such a scornful, incredelous tone as to dismiss all further argument on the matter. Why, he says, if even the angels are charged by God as being sinners, what hope does a mortal man have of ever measuring up to the requirements of God?"

And, in view of the depth and extent to which this lie has been for so long accepted by the human family, it is not an easy question for any human being to answer in the affirmative. Eliphaz fully expected Job to quail before that question, and to respond by saying it was not possible for a man to live righteously before God. But here he was disappointed, for Job was a man who had experienced the power of God to keep him from falling, and knew by that experience that it was possible to obey every one of God's holy precepts. "Humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts." C.O.L.314.

Job had a knowledge of God and His saving power of which Eliphaz knew nothing, and in the light of the conviction and the assurance of that knowledge, he could answer as he did by denying completely the argument of the devil through Eliphaz.

"God forbid that I should justify you," he said. "Till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me. My righteousness--which he had by faith--I hold fast, and will not let it go; my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live." Job 27:5,6.

This sums up the persistent stand that Job took to his persecutors throughout the whole of the long battle with them. Only a man with living faith such as Job had, could answer as he did.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" He most certaily can! He most positively, definitely, assuredly and decidedly can! If it is not possible for a man to live righteously, this side of Heaven, then where is the power of Christ in the gospel?

Are you prepared to believe that the power of sin is greater than the power of the gospel? Would you teach that Satan is stronger than Christ? The gospel is the living power of God to save from sin, and this it really does whenever a believing heart comes to God trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior!

"We cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior to bring Christ's righteousness into the life... which accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27.

"Through the virtue of the merits of the blood of Christ we may stand unscathed amid the fire of temptation and trial." Ibid,87.

Thus plainly and clearly the devil's lie is exposed for what it is. We are to know that this is his lie so that no matter from what source this lie may be presented to us, we will know that we must instantly, positively and decidedly reject is for what it is. IT IS A FATAL SOPHISTRY.

"Through defects in the character, Satan works to gain control of the whole mind, and he knows that if these defects are cherished he will succeed. Therefore he is constantly seeking to deceive the followers of Christ with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible for them to overcome." G.C.489.

We will hear it argued with authority and vehemence from the pulpits; we will read it in religious publications and forums; the almost total majority of this world's inhabitants will endorse it in any kind of issue over the matter; we will stand largely alone if we reject this lie of Satan; our dearest and nearest friends and relatives will urge it upon us, and closest of all, our own hearts will even suggest it many times.

But every such voice is from the devil, the father of lies. We are to learn to be quick to recognize his voice in those assertions no matter by whom they may be spoken upon this earth. Our very own safety for this life and the life to come depends upon it.

Never forget nor lose sight of the fact that there in the word of God, that lie is exposed for what it is, and thus there is no excuse for any failure on our part to escape the deception and the consequences of it. See GC516;

sky

"From the very beginning, it has been the special doctrine of the adversary of God and man to declare that it is impossible for man to keep the precepts of Jehovah. This has been, and still is the work of Satan. This is the seductive doctrine that devils are seeking to spread throughout the world." Review and Herald, July 31, 1888; DA24.

[John317]

SATAN'S GREAT LIE

So the case could now be settled only by delivering Job into the hands of Satan to rest and to prove him. And how the devil went to work to break Job at all costs. He swept away all his possessions, and killed all his children with devastating suddenness. As shock after shock fell upon him, Job endured the storm and did not fall in the least. Calmly and patiently he said, "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." Job 1:21.

....

I like your post, very much.

I have few thoughts I'd like to add:

1) The last generation is like Job. Are we ready and willing to go through these events that will demonstrate our faithfulness to God under the most trying circumstances?

If it is hard for us to remain faithful when we have it so good, what will we do when things are much more difficult?

2) They (we?) will be a test case of whether God's people can obey God's law; whether they obey Him even when it doesn't "pay" to do so.

[John317]

SATAN'S GREAT LIE

Now let us turn to the fourth chapter where we find there the devil stating in plain terms the charge that it is impossible for human beings, in this life, to keep the law of God perfectly.

Verse one of the chapter identifies Eliphaz as the speaker. Now, what gives the argument greater weight is that he states that he received this "by inspiration." In verse 12-14 he describes his going into a night vision, and in verse 15, he says, "Then a spirit passed before my face, the hair on my body stood up: It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance. A form was before mine eyes. There was silence: Then I heard a voice saying..."

Thus Eliphaz describes his inspiration which he claimed to be from God, but which the Lord denied as coming from Him when He charged Eliphaz with speaking that which was a lie. And now here in verse 17 and onwards, we have, in plain language, the very charge of Satan that the law cannot be kept perfectly. Here is one place where he has really come out in the open with it. We shall quote it from the Revised Standard Version.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" This is a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question is really a statement framed in question form to give the statement more impact. What Eliphaz is really saying, as he himself makes plain in the next verse is this: 'Surely you are not going to even make so much as a suggestion that you could believe that it is possible for a mortal man to keep the law of God perfectly?'

That this is the meaning and understanding, is evident from his following words. He goes on to say, "Even in His servants He puts no trust and His angels He charges with error. How much more those who dwell in houses of clay?" Verse 18.

And all this is uttered in such a scornful, incredelous tone as to dismiss all further argument on the matter. Why, he says, if even the angels are charged by God as being sinners, what hope does a mortal man have of ever measuring up to the requirements of God?"

And, in view of the depth and extent to which this lie has been for so long accepted by the human family, it is not an easy question for any human being to answer in the affirmative. Eliphaz fully expected Job to quail before that question, and to respond by saying it was not possible for a man to live righteously before God. But here he was disappointed, for Job was a man who had experienced the power of God to keep him from falling, and knew by that experience that it was possible to obey every one of God's holy precepts. "Humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts." C.O.L.314.

Job had a knowledge of God and His saving power of which Eliphaz knew nothing, and in the light of the conviction and the assurance of that knowledge, he could answer as he did by denying completely the argument of the devil through Eliphaz.

"God forbid that I should justify you," he said. "Till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me. My righteousness--which he had by faith--I hold fast, and will not let it go; my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live." Job 27:5,6.

This sums up the persistent stand that Job took to his persecutors throughout the whole of the long battle with them. Only a man with living faith such as Job had, could answer as he did.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" He most certaily can! He most positively, definitely, assuredly and decidedly can! If it is not possible for a man to live righteously, this side of Heaven, then where is the power of Christ in the gospel?

Are you prepared to believe that the power of sin is greater than the power of the gospel? Would you teach that Satan is stronger than Christ? The gospel is the living power of God to save from sin, and this it really does whenever a believing heart comes to God trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior!

"We cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior to bring Christ's righteousness into the life... which accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27.

"Through the virtue of the merits of the blood of Christ we may stand unscathed amid the fire of temptation and trial." Ibid,87.

Thus plainly and clearly the devil's lie is exposed for what it is. We are to know that this is his lie so that no matter from what source this lie may be presented to us, we will know that we must instantly, positively and decidedly reject is for what it is. IT IS A FATAL SOPHISTRY.

"Through defects in the character, Satan works to gain control of the whole mind, and he knows that if these defects are cherished he will succeed. Therefore he is constantly seeking to deceive the followers of Christ with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible for them to overcome." G.C.489.

We will hear it argued with authority and vehemence from the pulpits; we will read it in religious publications and forums; the almost total majority of this world's inhabitants will endorse it in any kind of issue over the matter; we will stand largely alone if we reject this lie of Satan; our dearest and nearest friends and relatives will urge it upon us, and closest of all, our own hearts will even suggest it many times.

But every such voice is from the devil, the father of lies. We are to learn to be quick to recognize his voice in those assertions no matter by whom they may be spoken upon this earth. Our very own safety for this life and the life to come depends upon it.

Never forget nor lose sight of the fact that there in the word of God, that lie is exposed for what it is, and thus there is no excuse for any failure on our part to escape the deception and the consequences of it. See GC516;

sky

"From the very beginning, it has been the special doctrine of the adversary of God and man to declare that it is impossible for man to keep the precepts of Jehovah. This has been, and still is the work of Satan. This is the seductive doctrine that devils are seeking to spread throughout the world." Review and Herald, July 31, 1888; DA24.

Wonderful, wonderful message, sky. One of the best things I've read on Job in a long time.

It's actually very similar in its substance with something by E.J. Waggoner that I was reading last night in his book, the enlarged edition of Christ and His Righteousness.

The gospel truly is the power of salvation unto all who believe and trust God's word. Thanks for posting.

Quote:

It ought to be apparent from what we have already learned in the book of Romans, that forgiveness of sin is not a mere book transaction,-- the simple entry of the word "pardoned" on the books of record,-- but that it is an actual fact; something that personally affects the individual. It is righteousness put into and upon the man; it is blessedness that come to him. It is a change. It does not consist simply in the Lord's saying to the sinner, 'I will not hold the past against you,' but it consists in taking his sin away from him;-- removing it as far as the east is from the west,-- so that he now stands in the sight of God as though he had never sinned. This is blessedness indeed. Surely, this is more than a change in theory. It is taking a man who is morally bankrupt, and setting him on his feet, so that he can now do good works; for it is only the good man who can do good works. Luke 6:45. And that the righteousness which is imputed for the remission of sin does effect a change in the man is evident from Romans 3: 22. It is righteousness put into and upon the sinner. That is, he is made righteous both inside and outside.

Christ and His Righteousness, Ellet J. Waggoner, Glad Tidings Publishers, Berrien Springs, MI 1999, p. 114.

[John317]

You may already realize that what you say about the meaning of the book of Job is diametrically opposed to the significance that Jack Sequeira has drawn from it. Jack Sequeira teaches that God did not mean Job kept the law but that Job merely thought of himself in those terms. According to this view, the whole reason for the suffering of Job was to teach Job that he had a problem with self-righteousness. Therefore, one of the main lessons of the book is that Job was not righteous by faith or keeping God's law by faith but that Job was keeping it legalistically. Job needed to repent and learn he had been wrong the whole time he was claiming to be innocent. He should have confessed his sin.

I see this interpretation as a grave mistake. It makes both God and the narrator of the book dishonest, and also supports Satan accusation that God made a law that humans cannot obey.

[Robert]

You may already realize that what you say about the meaning of the book of Job is diametrically opposed to the significance that Jack Sequeira has drawn from it. Jack Sequeira teaches that God did not mean Job kept the law but that Job merely thought of himself in those terms. According to this view, the whole reason for the suffering of Job was to teach Job that he had a problem with self-righteousness. Therefore, one of the main lessons of the book is that Job was not righteous by faith or keeping God's law by faith but that Job was keeping it legalistically. Job needed to repent and learn he had been wrong the whole time he was claiming to be innocent. He should have confessed his sin.

I see this interpretation as a grave mistake. It makes both God and the narrator of the book dishonest, and also supports Satan accusation that God made a law that humans cannot obey.

Job's righteousness:

“I [Job] hold fast my righteousness and will not let it go." [Job 27:6 NASB]

“If I [Job] have walked in falsehood or my foot has hurried after deceit— let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless. [Job 31:5,6 NIV]

Elihu exposes Job:

"But the anger of Elihu [the 4th man] the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned; against Job his anger burned, [why?] because he justified himself before God. [Job 32:2 NASB]

Job confesses his self-righteous attitude:

“Behold, I [Job] am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.” [Job 40:4 KJV]

”Wherefore I [Job] abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.“ [Job 42:6 KJV]

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

You may already realize that what you say about the meaning of the book of Job is diametrically opposed to the significance that Jack Sequeira has drawn from it. Jack Sequeira teaches that God did not mean Job kept the law but that Job merely thought of himself in those terms. According to this view, the whole reason for the suffering of Job was to teach Job that he had a problem with self-righteousness. Therefore, one of the main lessons of the book is that Job was not righteous by faith or keeping God's law by faith but that Job was keeping it legalistically. Job needed to repent and learn he had been wrong the whole time he was claiming to be innocent. He should have confessed his sin.

I see this interpretation as a grave mistake. It makes both God and the narrator of the book dishonest, and also supports Satan accusation that God made a law that humans cannot obey.

Job's righteousness:

“I [Job] hold fast my righteousness and will not let it go." [Job 27:6 NASB]

“If I [Job] have walked in falsehood or my foot has hurried after deceit— let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless. [Job 31:5,6 NIV]

1) In Job 27: 6, Job is refusing to say what the "friends" want him to say, which is that he has committed some great sin that's caused God to punish him.

Amplified Version--

6 My uprightness and my right standing with God I hold fast and will not let them go; my heart does not reproach me for any of my days and it shall not reproach me as long as I live.

CEV--

6because each day my conscience

agrees that I am innocent.

JOB IS SAYING HE IS INNOCENT OF THE ACCUSATIONS OF HIS FRIENDS. That is the context. He is not saying he is sinless.

2) When Job calls himself "blameless," that is the same as saying what God said about him and what the narrator says about him. Therefore it would not make sense to have job denying it and saying he is a terrible man. The Bible calls Noah blameless, and God commanded Abraham to be blameless. Luke 1: 6 says the parents of John the Baptist were "blameless."

In calling Job blameless, God was not lying. Neither was Moses, the writer of the book.

In all due respect, the problem here is that you misunderstood the meaning of blameless. It does not mean sinless. It simply means someone who was a good man, had integrity, and could be trusted. This is not my opinion. It is what you will find in the Hebrew Lexicons and in the translations.

[John317]

Job confesses his self-righteous attitude:

“Behold, [color:#990000]I [Job] am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.” [Job 40:4 KJV]

”Wherefore [color:#990000]I [Job] abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.“ [Job 42:6 KJV]

Do a word study of "vile" and study the context and reason why Job despised himself and repented in dust and ashes. Was it because Job's friends were proved right in their charges? No, it was that He saw his ignorance and weakness in contrast with God's wisdom and power.

Notice that nowhere does God say that Job was wrong to maintain his innocence, and Job does not say he was guilty of the sins they accused him of.

Rather he says, "I know that you can do all things and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted." He admits that he has said things that he did not understand, but he doesn't say that among those things is his having denied that he did wrong to maintain his innocence.

[Robert]

“I [Job] hold fast my righteousness"

"But the anger of Elihu burned, [why?] because he justified himself before God."

"My" righteousness?

Did Job say, "the righteousness OF GOD"? No! The only thing we can produce is self-righteous fruit.

Go to Phil 3:3

For we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh [in OUR performance], 4 although I myself [as a Pharisee] might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more [again, as a Pharisee]:

[Now Paul lists all the things he placed pride in that he thought made him acceptable before God:]

5 circumcised the eighth day,

of the nation of Israel,

of the tribe of Benjamin,

a Hebrew of Hebrews;

as to the Law, a Pharisee [an expert in the law];

6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church;

as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

7 But whatever things were gain to me [those things he listed above], those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them [the things listed above] but dung [why?] in order that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness of God that comes on the basis of faith....

Did Job say "the righteousness of God"? No! Did He say "the imparted righteousness of God"? NO!!!!

He clearly said, "MY righteousness." He was defending his righteousness before God!

[skyblue888]

John, thanks for all your comments which I totally agree with. I know about Sequira teaching that Job's problem was self-righteousness. The brother completely missed the point. The book of Job is to teach rather that Job's righteousness was of the right order, that he had the righteousness which is of God by faith. The Scriptures are very clear on that:

"My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord." James 5:10,11.

"Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness, says the Lord." Ezekiel 14:14.

"Their righteousness is from Me, says the Lord." Isaiah 54:17.

Mrs. White certainly agreed with these passages of Holy Writ:

"There is wickedness in our world, but all the suffering is not the result of a perverted course of life. Job is brought distinctly before us as a man whom the Lord allowed Satan to afflict. The enemy stripped him of all he possessed; his family ties were broken; his children were taken from him. For a time his body was covered with loathsome sores, and he suffered greatly. His friends came to comfort him, but they tried to make him see that he was responsible, by his sinful course, for his afflictions. But he defended himself, and denied the charge, declaring, Miserable comforters are ye all. By seeking to make him guilty before God, and deserving of His punishment, they brought a grievous test upon him, and represented God in a false light; but Job did not swerve from his loyalty, and God rewarded His faithful servant." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.3, p.1140.

"The disciples of Christ could understand the mystery of His mission no more than the friends of Job could understand his humiliation and suffering." Desire of Ages, p.88.

The passages of Scriptures quoted above and these two statements from the pen of inspiration are more than sufficient to establish the fact that Job possessed the righteousness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

sky

[John317]

Those are great quotes, sky. They certainly clarify the question of Job's righteousness, that it was righteousness by faith and not self-righteousness. Thanks so much for those.

[Woody]

Praise God ... He loves and forgives us and considers us PERFECT even when we are self-righteous because we come to Him.

[skyblue888]

You are right Red, we are to come to Him as we are, self-righteous, helpless, dependent, and we must lay hold by faith of His all-sufficient merits. As we do this, we are clothed with the robe of His righteousness, that is, we become one with Him. The heart is united to His heart, the will is merged in His will, and the mind becomes one with His mind, and the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness. See Christ's Object Lessons, p.312.

"His experience is to be ours." Desire of Ages, p.363.

"We must daily apply to the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." Faith and Works, p.86.

sky

[John317]

“I [Job] hold fast my righteousness"

"My" righteousness?

Did Job say, "the righteousness OF GOD"? No! The only thing we can produce is self-righteous fruit.

Job is saying he is innocent of the accusations of his so-called friends. That's the context. He's saying he doesn't deserve to suffer. They are accusing him of having some sin in his life that is bringing him his suffering. He's denying it. Job was right. The whole book shows that the narrator was right when he wrote in the very first verse that Job was "blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil."

Did Job have some important lessons to learn? Yes, he did. But throughout the entire book, nothing is introduced into evidence to show that Job was not blameless and upright, a man who feared God and turned away from evil. There were accusations made, for sure, but those are just accusations.

Job was indeed a man of integrity whom God knew He could trust.

See Ezekiel 14: 14, 20.

[skyblue888]

Those are great quotes, sky. They certainly clarify the question of Job's righteousness, that it was righteousness by faith and not self-righteousness. Thanks so much for those.

Yes they are, aren't they? I thank God for them every day because of their clarity and simplicity. If Job had retained his self-righteousness the Scriptures would not speak of "the perseverance of Job" or his name would not appear alongside Noah's name and Daniel's name, great men of faith and righteousness.

God bless,

sky

[Gerr]

Satan's great lie?

In the Garden: God doesn't tell the truth. Than one can sin and shall not surely die. That lie is still around.

In the case of Job: 1. Believers do so for selfish reasons, i.e. they serve God for the goodies they receive. Take away the goodies and they will stop serving God. 2). That believers consider their lives more important than their relationship with God.

Gerry

[skyblue888]

I agree with you John and Gary for "At every advanced step in Christian experience our repentance will deepen." Christ's Object Lessons, p.160.

Job's humility deepened as a result.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

In the Garden: God doesn't tell the truth. Than one can sin and shall not surely die. That lie is still around.

Will all those who have not sinned ... not die?

[Robert]

Quote:

"You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord." James 5:10,11.

Yes, Job kept his faith in God. He didn't reject God, but did Job have a problem? Yes! The above quote isn't talking about Job's performance! Sorry, out of context!

Quote:

"Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness, says the Lord." Ezekiel 14:14.

The context of the above is faithfulness to God (see verse 13). So maybe righteous by faith is the point here?

This verse is unclear..., but it's a good one to use if you wish to muddy the water.

BTW, the context is the book of Job, not Ezekiel. This is typical verse jumping to try and confuse the issue!

Quote:

"Their righteousness is from Me, says the Lord." Isaiah 54:17.

The NASB says, "And their vindication is from Me,” declares the Lord.

Besides, Job isn't a part of that context! This is again verse jumping.....

Quote:

His (3) friends came to comfort him, but they tried to make him see that he was responsible, by his sinful course, for his afflictions

Job wasn't doing bad things....He was doing good things outwardly, but all he did was to be seen of men. He was doing the right things, for the wrong motives. It was his flesh trying to act all holy!

Also...Job was so busy looking at all the good things he was doing that he failed to see "the marked contrast" between his works and God's.

Job even justified his righteousness before God, i.e., until the 4th man (Elihu) stepped in to correct him.

[Robert]

"we live His life"

You think so, huh? I would like to test your supposition! Are you ready?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

“I [Job] hold fast my righteousness"

"My" righteousness?

Did Job say, "the righteousness OF GOD"? No! The only thing we can produce is self-righteous fruit.

Job is saying he is innocent of the accusations of his so-called friends.

No, John is placing that spin in the mix! Job clearly states it is his righteousness! You are welcome to deceive yourself here, but that's what Job states.

Rob

[Robert]

I agree with you John and Gary for "At every advanced step in Christian experience our repentance will deepen." Christ's Object Lessons, p.160.

Job's humility deepened as a result.

sky

True....To repent is to admit we are sinners! Very good!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Job is saying he is innocent of the accusations of his so-called friends.

No, John is placing that spin in the mix! Job clearly states it is his righteousness! You are welcome to deceive yourself here, but that's what Job states.

[/quote']

Study carefully the following verses:

Quote:

Ps. 7: 8 The LORD shall judge the peoples;

Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness,

And according to my integrity within me.

Ps. 18: 20-- The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness;

According to the cleanness of my hands

He has recompensed me.

Ps. 18: 24- 24 Therefore the LORD has recompensed me according to my righteousness,

According to the cleanness of my hands in His sight.

Ps. 18: 25-- With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful;

With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless;

If Job was being self-righteous when he said "my righteousness," then so was David.

I think these things show that you do not understand what is being said. In the same way as you do not understand what is meant by "blameless." Clearly "blameless" does not refer to sinlessness or absolute perfection. It means having integrity and being trustworthy.

These Psalms show that "my righteousness" is the same as the parallels of "cleanness of hands" and having "integrity."

David was not being self-righteous here any more than Job was.

On the other hand, if you want to believe so, you are free to believe it, Rob.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: John317

Job is saying he is innocent of the accusations of his so-called friends.

No, John is placing that spin in the mix! Job clearly states it is his righteousness! You are welcome to deceive yourself here, but that's what Job states.

[/quote']

Study carefully the following verses:

Quote:

Ps. 7: 8 The LORD shall judge the peoples; Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, And according to my integrity within me.

I'm sorry....did you miss out, John? We are dealing specifically with the book of Job. I could care less what David says for we aren't looking at his life here.

That being said...I think David has some growing room too! I would, by the grace of God, never say "my righteousness"! I can't produce one atom of righteousness in and of myself. Why? Because all I do, in and of myself, is tainted with the love of self. I can do the right thing outwardly, but of myself the motive will always be self-centered.

Ellen White:

"We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; [how so?] we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life." [sC 28,29]

[Robert]

"We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; [how so?] we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life." [sC 28,29]

Now do you think that this applies to only the unconverted? If so, think again:

"The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary, but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity they are so defiled that unless purified by blood [the blood of Christ], they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor, who is at God’s right hand, presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God.

All incense from earthly tabernacles [i.e., true believers] must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. He holds before the Father the censer of His own merits, in which there is no taint of earthly corruption. He gathers into this censer the prayers, the praise, and the confessions of His people, and with these He puts His own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ’s propitiation, the incense comes up before God wholly and entirely acceptable. Then gracious answers are returned.

Oh, that all may see that [size:20pt]everything in obedience, in penitence, in praise and thanksgiving, must be placed upon the glowing fire of the righteousness of Christ. The fragrance of this righteousness ascends like a cloud around the mercy seat." [1SM 344]