Marriage of Christ to the Church or Holy City? Investigative Judgment

[messenger]

The coming of the bridegroom, here brought to view, takes place before the marriage. The marriage represents the reception by Christ of His kingdom. (The bride is not the church but the Holy City. And the Sanctuary was not the earth but the one in Heaven.)The Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is the capital and representative of the kingdom, is called "the bride, the Lamb's wife."Said the angel to John: "Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." "He carried me away in the spirit," says the prophet, "and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God." Revelation 21:9, 10. Clearly, then, the bride represents the Holy City, and the virgins that go out to meet the bridegroom are a symbol of the church. In the Revelation the people of God are said to be the guests at the marriage supper. Revelation 19:9. If guests, they cannot be represented also as the bride. Christ, as stated by the prophet Daniel, will receive from the Ancient of Days in heaven, "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom; ;" He will receive the New Jerusalem, the capital of His kingdom, "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Daniel 7:

The proclamation, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh," in the summer of 1844, led thousands to expect the immediate advent of the Lord. At the appointed time the Bridegroom came, not to the earth, as the people expected, but to the Ancient of Days in heaven, to the marriage, the reception of His kingdom. "They that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut." They were not to be present in person at the marriage; for it takes place in heaven, while they are upon the earth. The followers of Christ are to "wait for their Lord, when He will return from the wedding." Luke 12:36. But they are to understand His work, and to follow Him by faith as He goes in before God. It is in this sense that they are said to go in to the marriage.

In the parable it was those that had oil in their vessels with their lamps that went in to the marriage. Those who, with a knowledge of the truth from the Scriptures, had also the Spirit and grace of God, and who, in the night of their bitter trial, had patiently waited, searching the Bible for clearer light--these saw the truth concerning the sanctuary in heaven and the Saviour's change in ministration, and by faith they followed Him in His work in the sanctuary above. And all who through the testimony of the Scriptures accept the same truths, following Christ by faith as He enters in before God to perform the last work of mediation, and at its close to receive His kingdom--all these are represented as going in to the marriage.

In the parable of Matthew 22 the same figure of the marriage is introduced, and the investigative judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage. Previous to the wedding the king comes in to see the guests, to see if all are attired in the wedding garment, the spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. Matthew 22:11; Revelation 7:14. There is an examination, an investigation to see who are wearing the wedding garments. This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of the investigative judgment, the closing of work in the sanctuary above.

“They that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut,” we are carried down through the Saviour's final ministration. Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.”

The Investigative Judgment

In the New Testament

Sometimes our critics challenge us with the following argument: "The Investigative Judgment is nowhere to be found in the New Testament!"

Some of our critics would be surprised to learn that the Investigative Judgment really is taught in the New Testament. Not only that, it is taught by the Master himself! Most find it difficult to believe in the Investigative Judgment, so we thought if this doctrine came directly from the lips of the Lord Jesus Christ himself it would be even more convincing. Follow us to the book of Matthew, where Jesus was once again confronted by the Pharisees, but to their own shame:

Matthew 22:1-14

(1) And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

(2) The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

(3) And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

(4) Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

(5) But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

(6) And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

(7) But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

(8) Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

(9) Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

(10) So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

(11) And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

(12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

(13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

There are 5 points we want you to notice here:

Point # 1) Once the wedding was furnished with guests, the king comes in to “see” those present. While seeing, he finds a man unprepared for the wedding (verse 11). With all the people that were present the king found one unprepared individual there. The king’s “seeing” and finding this certain individual must have therefore been an investigation he performed upon those who were there.

Point # 2) This is not a scene of heaven, but of earth, because both “good and bad” are present. This means that when the king “investigates” those present, he is investigating those upon the earth.

Point # 3) The king can be none other then God himself. If God, then he has to be in heaven, looking (investigating) down upon the earth, for God on earth would result in the destruction of the earth by reason of his glory. Therefore God, from heaven, is investigating both the good and bad people on earth.

Point # 4) After the king performs the “investigation” of the people at this wedding, he finds a man unprepared and as a result pronounces a “judgment” upon him (verse 13). This is therefore an “Investigative Judgment” because along with the investigation there was a Judgment.

Point # 5) This scene of the “Investigative Judgment” takes place before the Second Coming. Notice what Jesus says in Luke 12:

Luke 12:36-37 (36) And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

(37) Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

Notice in verse 36 how it specifically says that Jesus will come “from” the wedding. If therefore the wedding and the marriage were the same event, how is it that he comes “from” the wedding to pick up his children? The marriage, says John the Revelator, is the Second Coming:

Revelation 19:7 (7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

If the above verse were read in context, you will find two very important points:

A) Just before verse 7, all those in heaven proclaim, “True and righteous are his Judgments…” (verse 2) God has performed a Judgment in heaven upon the wicked on earth before Jesus’ Second Coming. The greek word translated “Judgments” here is “krisis” which can be subjectively (for) or objectively (against). In other words, God just finished performing either subjective or objective Judgments upon people before the coming. This is why we read of both “good and bad” in the Investigative Judgment (the wedding) of Matthew 22. An objective Judgment was pronounced upon that “great whore” –verse 3.

Right after this verse, a scene of the Second coming of Jesus Christ is seen:

Revelation 19:11- 21 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God… And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

That the Investigative Judgment is taught by Jesus Christ himself should be good enough for our critics... we hope. If the Old Testament is not enough, hopefully the New Testament will finally show that the Investigative Judgment is truly biblical... for the Lord Jesus Christ taught it himself. Some professed Adventist Scholars-Theologians say that we do not have sound exegesis or hermeneutics in our teaching of the Investigative Judgment or Sanctuary Message. Exegesis and hermeneutics are sometimes used interchangeably; however, there remains a distinction. An exegesis is the interpretation and understanding of a text on the basis of the text itself. A hermeneutic is a practical application of a certain method or theory of interpretation, often revolving around the contemporary relevance of the text in question. And I see very sound exegesis and hermeneutics used in our teaching of this subject.

And we do not want to argue theology with The Lord Jesus do we? No, not me never! I will trust in the Word of God and especially in the Words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself on the subject! I hope and pray that each one of us will be welcomed guest and will be wearing the proper garments at the greatest Wedding-Marriage ever and everlasting!

If you would like to see a more detailed Bible Study on the Investigative Judgment-Sanctuary Truth please click on this link to my web-site and just scroll down past the video messages until you see the Daniel 8:14 message:

www.ConvincingEvidenceOfGod.com

www.ConvincingEvidenceOfGod.com/bibletruthprophecy.aspx

Blessings to you in the Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew

[skyblue888]

Thank you for brining this up.

In the parable of the wedding garment, the marriage is between humanity and divinity, between the soul and Christ. In the parable of the 10 virgins the marriage is between Christ and the New Jerusalem and the saints are guests at that marriage.

Agreed?

sky

for a more detailed explanation please visit www.hidden-treasures.ca and click on the cover title That Which Has Been Will Be. Thank you and God bless.

The parable of the wedding garment (Matt.22) clearly shows that Jesus was looking down the ages with His eyes fixed upon our time when He spoke it. A close study of the parable shows that the investigative judgment of the living takes place at the end of the third call which is the end of the loud cry. Those alone who successfully pass the great final test can pass the scrutiny of that judgment which takes place moments before the close of probation. Those who pass that judgment receive the final seal and are prepared to enter into the time of Jacob's trouble. Thus only them can be numbered among the 144,000.

[messenger]

Greetings Sky,

Thanks for your comments we are in agreement on this subject for the most part.I am new to the forum here and I look forward to sharing and reading more bible truth.

blessings upon you in Christ, Matthew

[Woody]

Greetings Matthew. I hope you will take the time to tell us a little about yourself. And I am curious why you have the name 'messenger'.

[BobRyan]

Another NT proof for the Investigative Judgment is 2Cor 5:10.

But the bigger issue for our Christian brethren who want this teaching some place besides the OT - is "why reject the majority of scripture" when God says "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND Is profitable for doctrine and reproof" 2Tim 3:16.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

Excellent, Matthew. I recognize you from another Adventist site, by the way. Welcome to the Forum. Hope you stick around and make lots of friends here. I've appreciated very much many of your posts elsewhere.

[John317]

Greetings Matthew. I hope you will take the time to tell us a little about yourself. And I am curious why you have the name 'messenger'.

Great message from the messenger, isn't it. I think it's worth reading several times.

[skyblue888]

messenger, Matthew? Nice that we agree for the most part. Now could u please tell me what part you disagree with so we can discuss it so we can arrive at the truth as the Holy Spirit has promised to be our Teacher, and who can teach like Him?

sky

[skyblue888]

Bob, excellent passage of Scripture you gave for All Scripture being relevant, not just the New Testatment.

2 Cor.5:10

I believe all of us understand that the investigative judgment proper as far as 1844 is concerned does not concern the unrighteous dead or alive. This investigative judgment which began for the dead in 1888 (who had professed to believe in Christ from Adam until then) will soon pass to the living (those who profess to be followers of Christ and are still alive) at the end of the loud cry and who will have to face the great final tests, namely, the buy-and-sell decree and the death decree, the death decree being the great final test. This is the test of the beast and image beast that will determine whether one passes the scrutiny of the judgment of the living which will take place simultaneously with the great final test. And this is the test that will determine who will be among the 144,000 for not one of us can be a member of that illustrious company unless we pass the great final test and thus received the final seal before entering the time of Jacob's trouble.

Correct?

sky

[BobRyan]

Sky,

True - (except I would argue for 1844 not 1888 as possibly a typo in your post)

But remember that a judgment is needed to say "this person is not part of the group to be evaluated in the pre-advent judgment" - so there is a sense in which all - even those having no claim to the blood of Christ by anything they do or appeal to in their life -- were being looked at prior to the 2nd coming.

Nobody's salvation status changes in the IJ -- if you are saved going in - you are saved coming out... if you are lost going in - you are lost coming out.

But there is a huge "gotcha" in the case of the Rev 15 event where John tells us Christ leaves the sanctuary prior to the plagues being poured out -- and that is that the saints must stand in the sight of a Holy God without their High Priest ministering - interceding before the Father for them.

So unless they "forgave future sins" during the Sanctuary service - it means "no sinning" for the saints during the 7 last plagues. And the only way to get to that point is to be receving the Latter Rain - now!

So ...err..umm that's a problem for us. Because we know it -- we know where the Holy Spirit MUST be leading us -- the problem is that we are "likely" to respond to Him something like "Why do I have to do THAT?? Nobody else is having to do that!". It is a problem to be worked out in prayer before God.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

Nobody's salvation status changes in the IJ -- if you are saved going in - you are saved coming out... if you are lost going in - you are lost coming out.

Could say a little more about what you mean?

How do you understand the following statement:

Quote:

As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. . . .The Faith I Live By (1958), page 212, paragraph 2

[Woody]

Don't see any conflict in that. What is your point?

[John317]

But there is a huge "gotcha" in the case of the Rev 15 event where John tells us Christ leaves the sanctuary prior to the plagues being poured out -- and that is that the saints must stand in the sight of a Holy God without their High Priest ministering - interceding before the Father for them.

So unless they "forgave future sins" during the Sanctuary service - it means "no sinning" for the saints during the 7 last plagues. And the only way to get to that point is to be receving the Latter Rain - now!...

As I understand it, those who stand in the sight of a Holy God with their High Priest won't commit any conscious sin between the close of human probation and the Second Coming. Of course, it doesn't mean they don't have sinful, fallen natures. But they will have on the robe of Christ's righteousness-- which is both the imputed and the imparted righteousness of Christ. Their life remains is hidden in Christ. It's not as if they have to stand during that short period clothed in their own righteousness. But during that time, they won't have any new, conscious sins they need to confess. No more sins will be recorded on the books of heaven that need to be blotted out.

This is one reason it's important for us to understand the difference between deliberate, willful sins, and those that we are not conscious of or those done in ignorance. There is a difference. Christ's righteousness covers those sins we are unaware of or that we repent of and confess, but His robe of righteousness won't cover deliberate, willful sins which we refuse to repent of and confess. Those who stand without a mediator won't have any such sins. They will have given them all over to Jesus and they stand cleansed of all sin and all unrighteousness (1 John 1: 7, 9) But even then, the saved won't think or say, "I am without sin." They'll only have awareness that they're unworthy, sinful human beings in need of Christ's righteousness and that without Him they would be lost.

How do you see it?

[John317]

Don't see any conflict in that. What is your point?

I simply would like BobRyan to say more on that topic.

I can see the possibility that his statement as it appears could lead people to believe that everyone who feels he's saved will actually be saved. But based on what both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy say, there will be some surprises. There will be those who are surprised they're saved and others who are astonished they're lost.

[Woody]

Oh. I didn't see him saying that at all. But I guess we can let him say.

[messenger]

Greetings Redwood, thanks for your comments. As to the nick name I use (messenger) I do not mean to imply that I am anybody special or anything, I got accused of that in another forum. It is just the same to me as saying I am a Christian, a disciple or servant of Christ and because we SDA's are told that the most important message for us to share is the three angels messages and I try to do that with the message of Righteousness By Faith and it is just a name that I thought represents those things.

When I have more time I will complete more on my profile. But not much to tell about myself, I have been an SDA for about 30 yrs. I am a former Ordained Literature Evangelist Minister, Ordained Elder, Lay Pastor, Bible Worker and Personal Ministries Director. But now in my older age I am not as active as I use to be. Glad to be able to get to know you through this forum and share God's love and truth.

Blessings be upon you in Christ, Matthew

[messenger]

Greetings Brother, thank you for your kind words and comments. This is a little different then other forums I have been in and still learning my way around. I look forward to getting to know everybody and sharing God's love and truth.

Blessing be upon you in Christ, Matthew

[messenger]

Greetings Brother Sky, I meant no offense to you. I know you from other forums and we are in agreement on many things. I only do not like to speculate about the 144,000. Ellen White suggest that we keep silent on that subject, we have our theories but speculation is not bible truth. And that is what I meant by being in agreement for the most part. But good to see some people here that I know a little from other sites.

blessings be upon you in Christ, Matthew

[messenger]

Greetings Brother John317, Thanks for your kind words and comments. God's word is truth and it is amazing to me more and more how He is making His word more clearer to us. God is good and greatly to be Praised. Good to meet you, I look forward to sharing bible truth together with all of you.

blessings be upon you in Christ, Matthew

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

But there is a huge "gotcha" in the case of the Rev 15 event where John tells us Christ leaves the sanctuary prior to the plagues being poured out -- and that is that the saints must stand in the sight of a Holy God without their High Priest ministering - interceding before the Father for them.

So unless they "forgave future sins" during the Sanctuary service - it means "no sinning" for the saints during the 7 last plagues. And the only way to get to that point is to be receving the Latter Rain - now!...

As I understand it, those who stand in the sight of a Holy God with their High Priest won't commit any conscious sin between the close of human probation and the Second Coming. Of course, it doesn't mean they don't have sinful, fallen natures. But they will have on the robe of Christ's righteousness-- which is both the imputed and the imparted righteousness of Christ. Their life remains is hidden in Christ. It's not as if they have to stand during that short period clothed in their own righteousness. But during that time, they won't have any new, conscious sins they need to confess. No more sins will be recorded on the books of heaven that need to be blotted out.

This is one reason it's important for us to understand the difference between deliberate, willful sins, and those that we are not conscious of or those done in ignorance. There is a difference. Christ's righteousness covers those sins we are unaware of or that we repent of and confess, but His robe of righteousness won't cover deliberate, willful sins which we refuse to repent of and confess. Those who stand without a mediator won't have any such sins. They will have given them all over to Jesus and they stand cleansed of all sin and all unrighteousness (1 John 1: 7, 9) But even then, the saved won't think or say, "I am without sin." They'll only have awareness that they're unworthy, sinful human beings in need of Christ's righteousness and that without Him they would be lost.

How do you see it?

I agree - my point is that the Holy Spirit would have to be LEADING us NOW on a path to such a point. The likely response to Him doing such a thing is exactly the response Peter gives to Christ in Matt 16 When Christ observes that Peter has stepped out ahead of the class and confirms his success -- but then tries to take him "the NEXT STEP" and Peter says "MAY it never BE!".

That same feeling of "Hey I am SDA -- I accepted all those doctrines but now you say I am supposed to do WHAT TODAY!!??? Nobody else has to do that? I choose to draw the line right where I am!"

And of course that would be a problem

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Nobody's salvation status changes in the IJ -- if you are saved going in - you are saved coming out... if you are lost going in - you are lost coming out.

Could say a little more about what you mean?

How do you understand the following statement:

Quote:

As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. . . .The Faith I Live By (1958), page 212, paragraph 2

There is no indication in that paragraph that a saved person was suddenly lost.

Recall that the Matt 7 principle is "by their fruits you shall know them" speaking of people as good vs bad trees. The tree does not TURN from good to bad when you find bad fruit on it. Rather it WAS BAD so that is why it has bad fruit.

The fruit you find -- does not change the tree.

in Christ,

Bob

[messenger]

What is the Omega of Apostasy in Adventisim? Is it an attack on the Sanctuary Message?

I believe that the Omega of Apostasy Is a last day attack on the Sanctuary Message of Daniel 8:14 and the writings of Ellen G. White.

Our Sanctuary Doctrine

“Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Dan. 8:14.

“God bids us give our time and strength to the work of preaching to the people the messages that stirred men and women in 1843 and 1844. . . .

My brethren, take your position where God bids you. Leave alone those who, after light has been repeatedly given them, have taken a stand on the opposite side. . . . Take up the work which has been given us. With the Word of God as your message, stand on the platform of truth and proclaim the soon coming of Christ. Truth, eternal truth, will prevail.

For more than half a century [i.e., since 1844] the different points of present truth have been questioned and opposed. New theories have been advanced as truth, which were not truth, and the Spirit of God revealed their error. As the great pillars of our faith have been presented, the Holy Spirit has borne witness to them, and especially is this so regarding the truths of the sanctuary question. Over and over again the

Holy Spirit has in a marked manner endorsed the preaching of this doctrine. But today, as in the past, some will be led to form new theories and to deny the truths upon which the Spirit of God has placed His approval.

Any man who seeks to present theories which would lead us from the light that has come to us on the ministration in the heavenly sanctuary should not be accepted as a teacher. A true understanding of the sanctuary question means much to us as a people. When we were earnestly seeking the Lord for light on that question, light came. In vision I was given

such a view of the heavenly sanctuary, and the ministration connected with the holy place, that for many days I could not speak of it.

I know from the light that God has given me that there should be a revival of the messages that have been given in the past, because men will seek to bring in new theories, and will try to prove that these theories are scriptural, whereas they are error, which, if allowed a place, will undermine faith in the truth. We are not to accept these suppositions and pass them along as truth. No, no; we must not move from

the platform of truth on which we have been established.

There will always be those who are seeking for something new, and who stretch and strain the Word of God to make it support their ideas and theories. Let us, brethren, take the things that God has given us, and which His Spirit has taught us is truth, and believe them, leaving alone

those theories which His Spirit has not endorsed.” >From Devotional: Our Father Cares, p. 271.

“One will arise, and still another, with new light, which contradicts the light that God has given under the demonstration of His Holy Spirit. . . . We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God’s Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake.”—Selected Messages, book 1, p. 161.

Signs That God will Purify His Church-Shaking and Sifting Times!

“When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness.”—Testimonies to Ministers, p. 112.

“Not having received the love of the truth, they will be taken in the delusions of the enemy; they will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils and will depart from the faith.”—Testimonies, vol. 6, p. 401.

“As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel’s message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position, and join the ranks of the opposition.”—The Great Controversy, p. 608.

“I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God’s people.”—Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 181.

“The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith.”—Evangelism, p. 224. See Ibid., pp. 221-225; The Great Controversy, pp. 423, 488; Review and Herald, Jan. 21, 1890; Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 575. (Like Desmond Ford and others)

“One thing is certain: Those Seventh-day Adventists who take their stand under Satan’s banner will first give up their faith in the warnings and reproofs contained in the Testimonies of God’s Spirit.”—Selected Messages, book 3, p. 84. See also Ibid., pp. 48, 83; Testimonies, vol., 4, p. 211.

“Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness.”—Prophets and Kings, p. 188. ( Like Desmond Ford and others)

“Many will show that they are not one with Christ, that they are not dead to the world, that they may live with Him; and frequent will be the apostasies of men who have occupied responsible positions.”—Review and Herald, Sept. 11, 1888. See also MR, vol. 13, pp. 379, 381.

“Many will stand in our pulpits with the torch of false prophecy in their hands, kindled from the hellish torch of Satan. . . . Some will go out from among us who will bear the ark no longer. But these cannot make walls to obstruct the truth; for it will go onward and upward to the end.”—Last Day Events, p. 179. See also Selected Messages, book 3, p. 385; MR, vol. 7, p. 192.

“The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.”—Selected Messages, book 2, p. 380.

“The shaking of God blows away multitudes like dry leaves.”—Testimonies, vol. 4, p. 89. “As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel’s message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition.”—The Great Controversy, p. 608. “Soon God’s people will be tested by fiery trials, and the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and true will prove to be base metal.”—Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 136.

“The broken ranks will be filled up by those represented by Christ as coming in at the eleventh hour. . . . Large numbers will be admitted who in these last days hear the truth for the first time.”—Letter 103, 1903, cited in Last Day Events, p. 182. See also Early Writings, p. 271; Testimonies, vol. 8, p. 41.

“When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few—this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.”—Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 136.

"We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature." Selected Messages, vol.1, 197. "One thing it is certain is soon to be realized,—the great apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing stronger, and will continue to do so until the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout." The New York Indicator, February 7, 1906.

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure." Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204, 205.

"Past history will be repeated; old controversies will arouse to new life, and peril will beset God's people on every side." Testimonies to Ministers, 116. "We have nothing to fear for the future except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us." Testimonies to Ministers, 31.

The Omega of apostasy is an attack on the pillars of our faith. The pillars of our faith is the Sanctuary Message of Dan.8:14 this is the very foundation of our church. If you remove this foundational truth then the SDA Church and the writings of Ellen White are not true or relevant, neither is the Sabbath or the Law of God. This all has been happening since the late 1970's and 1980's when professor of Theology at Andrews Desmond Ford came out publicly with his views-false theories on the Dan. 8:14 that he had been teaching to his students for years. His coming out publicly with his false theories lead to a great apostasy in our church, thousands even left the ministry and until this day his false theories are taught as bible truth by many SDA theologian - pastors in our churches. Let me share some facts with you about this great on going Omega of apostasy.

"What was Mrs. White’s response to these “new ideas”? Writing to J. H. Kellogg in 1898, she said that some read the Bible without thorough study and then, “full of ardor and zeal, present theories which, if received, will counter work” that which had been received since 1844 as “a connected chain of truth. . . . These crave for new ideas and suppositions, which mar the symmetrical development of character. . . . Let such a one put his whole mind upon some idea which is not correct, and deformity rather than symmetry is developed.”66

"At the 1905 General Conference session in Washington, Ballenger presented three one-hour studies on his “new” light on the sanctuary doctrine. His main thrust was that Jesus, on ascending to heaven, entered the second apartment of the heavenly sanctuary, the Most Holy Place. Prior to the cross, He had been functioning in the first apartment, the Holy Place. Ballenger did not convince the committee members. The committee responded with a Biblical exegesis that had been worked out decades before and confirmed by revelation to Ellen White. The response seemed to have led to a stalemate." (Even today in the Adventist Church many theologians teach that Christ went into the Most Holy Place upon His ascension to heaven and quote several bible text from Hebrews out of context and openly contradict Ellen White and earlier traditional SDA Theologians on the 1844 Sanctuary Message. I posted a blog about the Dan.8:14 Sanctuary controversy in this forum, but it has been revised if you want to see it in its entirety go to my website just click on the link below www.ConvincingEvidenceOfGod.com/bibletruthprophecy.aspx ) Also see my blog title " What is the So Called New Light or New Theology" in this forum.

“A decade or more of misconstruing the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation by faith weakened Ballenger’s understanding regarding Christ’s role in the atonement. Focusing his attention on the immediacy of the cleansed experience through claiming the Holy Spirit, he took his theological eyes off Christ’s function as High Priest, both in His first phase of ministry in the Holy Place and then in the Most Holy. Refusing to accept the correcting ministry of Ellen White, Ballenger began a course of attacking her credibility on theological matters as well as other areas.

In one of her public responses during this period, Mrs. White said: “In the future, deception of every kind is to arise, and we want solid ground for our feet. . . . Not one pin is to be removed from that which the Lord has established. The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith. . . . I am praying that the power of the Saviour will be exerted in behalf of those who have entered into the temptations of the enemy. They are not standing under the broad shield of Omnipotence.”67

Later she wrote: “He [ballenger] was gathering together a mass of scriptures such as would confuse minds because of his assertions and his misapplication of these scriptures, for the application was misleading and had not the bearing upon the subject at all which he claimed justified his position. Anyone can do this, and will follow his example to testify to a false position; but it was his own.”68

After noting how Ballenger reacted to her counsel in 1891, Mrs. White continued: “Now again our Brother Ballenger is presenting theories that cannot be substantiated by the Word of God. It will be one of the great evils that will come to our people to have the Scriptures taken out of their true place and so interpreted as to substantiate error that contradicts the light and the Testimonies that God has been giving us for the past half century. . . . I declare in the name of the Lord that the most dangerous heresies are seeking to find entrance among us as a people, and Elder Ballenger is making spoil of his own soul. The Lord has strengthened me to come the long journey to Washington to this meeting to bear my testimony in vindication of the truth of God’s Word, and the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in confirmation of Bible truth. The Word is sure and steadfast, and will stand the test.”

She continued: “There is not truth in the explanations of Scripture that Elder Ballenger and those associated with him are presenting. The words are right, but misapplied to vindicate error. We must not give countenance to his reasoning. He is not led of God. . . . I am instructed to say to Elder Ballenger, Your theories which have multitudes of fine threads, and need so many explanations, are not truth, and are not to be brought to the flock of God.”69

In one of the public sessions Ellen White was led to recount early experiences. As she had done on several earlier occasions,70 she described how, in the early years, intense Bible study preceded the “clear explanation of the passages we had been studying” that would be revealed to her in vision. None of this was done in secret. “The brethren knew that, when not in vision, I could not understand these matters, and they accepted, as light directly from heaven, the revelations given.”71

She presented several other messages to various groups at the 1905 session, each one warning both Ballenger and church leaders “not to mingle erroneous theories with the truth of God.” She emphasized that he had “been allowing his mind to receive and believe specious error.” If his theories were accepted, they “would undermine the pillars of our faith.” One of the problems was that in removing “the old landmarks,” they were “working as blind men.”72

Under God’s illumination, Ellen White’s clarifying and unifying leadership in these four theological crises—Salvation by Faith encounter at Minneapolis in 1888; Holy Flesh Movement in 1901 at Battle Creek; Pantheism crisis in 1903 at Washington, D. C.; and the Sanctuary challenge in 1905—was remarkably timely as well as determinative. No other person involved in these four potentially divisive crises was able to unify and set the course for the future. As noted often by many, “It was she who played a key role in resolving these issues. . . . Without Ellen White’s authoritative voice, the outcome may have been very different.”73

Ellen White was indeed the voice of the Advent movement, but not by spelling out each theological detail and settling each crisis with Sinai thunder. She worked to build up the best thinking of the moment, waiting at times until that best thinking ripened so that she did not break the equation initiated many years before: sound Bible study + confirmation by divine revelation = present truth.

It seems that Mrs. White’s highest, greatest contribution was to keep the big picture in view, sensing always the harmful consequences of false theories. Clear in her mind was the full-orbed understanding of the gospel, and any theory that blurred any aspect of the gospel got her careful and concerned attention. She steered the church away from legalism on the right and romantic fanaticism on the left, always concerned with unity and with the distinctive mission of the Adventist Church."

Endnotes

[Top of Document]

1.Letter 117, 1910, cited in Selected Messages, book 3, p. 32.

2.The Great Controversy, p. 186.

3.Acts 20:28-31; Col. 2:8, 16-23; 2 Tim. 4:3-5; Titus 1:9-16.

4.“In later years I have been shown that the false theories advanced in the past have by no means been given up. As favorable opportunities come, they will have a resurrection. Let us not forget that everything is to be shaken that can be shaken.”—Life Sketches, pp. 92, 93; see Selected Messages, book 2, pp. 25-30.

5.Life Sketches, p. 83.

6.Ibid., p. 87. See also p. 50.

7.Ibid., pp. 85, 86.

8.Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 72.

9.Ibid., p. 97.

10. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, pp. 92, 94, 97. In her writings, Ellen White referred to A. T. Jones and E. J. Waggoner more than 200 times. The emphasis given to “righteousness by faith” at Minneapolis in 1888 was distinctively different from the understanding prevailing in Protestantism during the nineteenth century, a fact that has not always been understood by those who have written of that important period.

11. Letter 82, 1888, in The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, vol. 1, p. 182; “Brethren . . . I must tell you plainly that the course pursued toward me and my work since the Gen. Conf. at Minneapolis—your resistance of the light and warnings that God has given through me—has made my labor fifty times harder than it would otherwise have.”—Letter 1, 1890, Ibid., vol. 2, pp. 659; “the most grievous trial of my life.”—Manuscript 30, 1889, Ibid., vol. 1, p. 354; “one of the saddest chapters in the history of the believers in present truth.”—Ibid., vol. 4, p. 1796.

12. 1888 Materials, vol. 1, p. 152; Schwarz, Light Bearers, pp. 187-192; Faith and Works, pp. 59-84; Bio., vol. 3, pp. 416-418.

13. For a discussion of the ellipse of truth, see p. 260 and Appendix P.

14. Faith and Works, pp. 15, 16.

15. Manuscript 24, 1888, The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1888 Materials), vol. 1, pp. 217, 218.

16. Review and Herald, Mar. 11, 1890, pp. 1, 2; Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 48; “You may say that you believe in Jesus, when you have an appreciation of the cost of salvation. You may make this claim, when you feel that Jesus died for you on the cruel cross of Calvary; when you have an intelligent, understanding faith that His death makes it possible for you to cease from sin, and to perfect a righteous character through the grace of God, bestowed upon you as the purchase of Christ’s blood.”—Review and Herald, July 24, 1888.

17. Schwarz, Light Bearers., p. 192.

18. Faith and Works, pp. 29-58.

19. Manuscript 24, 1888, 1888 Materials, vol. 1, pp. 217-218; see also pp. 211, 212; “I have had the question asked, What do you think of this light that these men are presenting? Why, I have been presenting it to you for the last forty-five years—the matchless charms of Christ. This is what have been trying to present before your minds. When Brother Waggoner brought out these ideas in Minneapolis, it was the first clear teaching on this subject from any human lips I had heard, excepting the conversations between myself and my husband. . . . When another presented it, every fiber of my heart said, Amen.”—Sermon at Rome, N.Y., June 19, 1889, Ibid., pp. 348, 349.

20. Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 714, 715; “That which God gives His servants to speak today would not perhaps have been present truth twenty years ago, but it is God’s message for this time.”—Manuscript 8a, 1888, quoted in Olson, op. cit., p. 274; “We want the past message and the fresh message.”—Review and Herald, Mar. 18, 1890; “We are in the day of atonement, and we are to work in harmony with Christ’s work of cleansing the sanctuary. . . . We must now set before the people the work which by faith we see our great High Priest accomplishing in the heavenly sanctuary.”—Review and Herald, Jan. 21, 1890; “The mediatorial work of Christ, the grand and holy mysteries of redemption, are not studied or comprehended by the people who claim to have light in advance of every other people on the face of the earth. Were Jesus personally upon earth, He would address a large number who claim to believe present truth with the words He addressed to the Pharisees: ‘Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, or the power of God.’ . . .

“There are old, yet new truths still to be added to the treasures of our knowledge. We do not understand or exercise faith as we should. . . . We are not called to worship and serve God by the use of the means employed in former years. God requires higher service now than ever before. He requires the improvement of the heavenly gifts. He has brought us into a position where we need higher and better things than ever have been needed before.”—Ibid., Feb. 25, 1890; “We have been hearing His voice more distinctly in the message that has been going for the last two years. . . . We have only just begun to get a little glimmering of what faith is.”—Ibid., Mar. 11, 1890.

21. 1888 Materials, vol. 1., p. 153; A. V. Olson, Thirteen Crisis Years (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald, 1966), p. 302.

22. 1888 Materials, p. 221.

23. Ibid., p. 153; also in Olson, Thirteen Crisis Years, p. 30.

24. Ibid., p. 1575; see also Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 234, 235.

25. Review and Herald Extra, Dec. 23, 1890, p. 2; A. G. Daniells, Christ Our Righteousness (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1941) 128 pages.

26. Review and Herald, “Repentance the Gift of God,” Apr. 1, 1890; Nov. 22, 1892, “The Perils and Privileges of the Last Days; Maxwell, Tell It to the World, pp. 231-241; Olson, op. cit., pp. 1-320; Schwarz, Light Bearers., pp. 183-197; Spalding, Origin and History, vol. 2, pp. 281- 303; Arnold V. Wallenkampf, What Every Adventist Should Know About 1888 (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1988), pp. 1-92; Robert J. Wieland, The 1888 Message, An Introduction (Nashville, Tenn.: Southern Publishing Association, 1980), (Paris, Ohio: Glad Tidings Publishers, 1997). pp. 1-158; Robert J. Wieland and Donald K. Short, 1888 Re-examined, Revised and Updated (Leominster, MA: The Eusey Press, 1987), pp. 1-213; Bio., vol. 3, pp. 385-433. George R. Knight, From 1888 to Apostasy (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1987). See George Knight, Angry Saints.

27. Letter to Ellen G. White, Sept. 25, 1900, E. G. White Estate Document File 190.

28. G. A. Roberts, “The Holy Flesh Fanaticism,” E. G. White Estate Document File 190.

29. General Conference Bulletin, Apr. 23, 1901, pp. 419-421; for a shortened version, see Selected Messages, book 2, pp. 31-35.

30. Ibid., p. 422.

31. William H. Grotheer, The Holy Flesh Movement (Florence, MS: Adventist Laymen’s Foundation of Mississippi, Inc., n.d.) pp. 1-65; Ella M. Robinson, S. N. Haskell, Man of Action (Washington, D. C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1967), pp. 168-176; Schwarz, Light Bearers., pp. 446-448; Bio., vol. 5, pp. 39, 99, 100-107, 112, 113.

32. Bull and Lockhart, Seeking a Sanctuary, pp. 56-62.

33. “Before I was 17 years old, I had to bear my testimony against them [sentiments regarding God such as are found in The Living Temple] before large companies.”—Letter 217, 1903, cited in Bio., vol. 5, p. 304.

34. Manuscript 70, 1905, cited in Bio., vol. 5, p. 281.

35. General Conference Daily Bulletin 1897, p. 83.

36. General Conference Daily Bulletin 1899, pp. 57, 58, 119.

37. Ellen White’s frequent emphasis on the “Christ in you” theme, coupled with her equally strong emphasis on the impartation of the Holy Spirit in fulfilling Peter’s appeal that Christians “may be partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet. 1:4), were taken out of context. Her statements were extrapolated into a teaching that an immanental God pervaded all humanity, both the converted and unconverted; in obeying the laws of life, a person could become like the divine, leaving no need for divine power to help, no need for Christ’s substitutionary death, etc. Behind both the Holy Flesh Movement and the pantheistic development was the shift, in the minds of some, from the sanctifying process that would prepare people for fuller service (latter rain and loud cry motifs) to the Sanctifier who would manifest Himself in some extraordinary, physical manner. For example, well-known Adventist leaders were teaching that receiving the Spirit meant also healing the body as well as the soul, that gray hair would be restored to its natural color, that truly Spirit-led people would not die!—See General Conference Daily Bulletin 1899, pp. 53-58, 119, 120; Gilbert M. Valentine, The Shaping of Adventism (Berrien Springs, MI: Andrews University, 1992), pp. 159-163,

Blessings be upon you in Christ, Matthew

[John317]

There is no indication in that paragraph that a saved person was suddenly lost.

Recall that the Matt 7 principle is "by their fruits you shall know them" speaking of people as good vs bad trees. The tree does not TURN from good to bad when you find bad fruit on it. Rather it WAS BAD so that is why it has bad fruit.

The fruit you find -- does not change the tree.

in Christ,

Bob

OK, that clarifies it. I was just wondering what you meant. Thanks. We agree.