Three facts common to us all

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THREE FACTS COMMON TO US ALL

It is safe to say that at least three facts are common to us all. The first is that we have, either consciously or subconsciously, a definite opinion about God's character and behavior. Even though little direct thought or specific expression may have been given to the topic, it is true nonetheless.

The second is that our attitude toward God, our treatment of others, and our receptivity to truth are determined by these opinions. The third is that all of us were born predispositioned to possess a false concept of God which in turn has been confirmed and extended by environmental and educational influences. Unless delivered from this and initiated into a true knowledge of God, it will be impossible to enter into a full and perfect Christian experience, and the prospects of eternal life will be endangered.

If this seems to be saying too much, consider the proof of these words as provided in the history of the Jews of Christ's day.

When Christ first appeared working amazing miracles, proclaiming the kingdom, and proving that He came at exactly the time specified in Daniel 9, He quickly became a very popular figure. Thousands followed Him, confident that He would re-establish the lost glory of Israel. The Jewish leaders studied the movement with increasing apprehension seeing in it the threat to their prestige and power. His following continued to swell until the feeding of the five thousand with the loaves and the fish. Then, when the enthusiasm of the people had reached its height and they were determined to crown Him king, the tide suddenly turned, the enthusiasm died away, and the crowds walked with Him no more. From that time every step led to the cross when those who had so ardently called for His crowning, screamed for His crucifixion.

What was the factor which caused this astonishing reversal? The answer is not difficult to find. They had a very definite but false concept of God's character, shaped by the educational processes in their environment. This factor was so fixed and powerful that it influenced them to reject the Savior because He did not perform as their concept of God's character became the most critical element in the mission of Jesus and the fate of the Jews. Had they correctly understood this, the history of His work on earth would have been very different.

Any careful study of the mounting conflict between Christ and the people leaves no doubt of the veracity of the above assertions. A great and significant event in His ministry was the sermon on the mount. Everyone who attended came anticipating important announcements about the coming kingdom. The Pharisees had looked forward to the day when they should have dominion over the hated Romans and possess the riches and splendor of the world's great empire. The poor peasants and fishermen hoped to hear the assurance that their wretched hovels, the scanty food, the life of toil, and fear of want were to be exchanged for mansions of plenty and days of ease. In place of the one coarse garment which was their covering by day, and their blanket by night, they hoped that Christ would give them the rich and costly robes of their conquerors. All hearts thrilled with the proud hope that Israel was soon to be honored before the nations as the chosen of the Lord, and Jerusalem exalted as the head of a universal kingdom.

Because the devil had done his work well, the people believed that not only the Messiah would exalt them in this way but that He would do it by the use of the sword. They saw God as the vengeful, destroying One of the Old Testament. Their concept of the God of the Old Testament led them to believe that the Messaiah would behave in the same way. But because their understanding of God's character was wrong, their expectations were to be disappointed.

Christ disappointed the hopes of worldly greatness. In the Sermon on the Mount He sought to undo the work that had been wrought by false education, and to give His hearers a right conception of His kingdom and of His own character.

The people did not hear what they had come to hear in the sermon on the mount, but many did not reject the Savior just then. He did not directly attack their errors, and they were left with the vague hope that somehow He would assert His power and use it according to their ideas of God's character.

to be continued

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Their servitude to the Romans had placed that proud people in a desperate plight. They needed great help, and they knew it. Their understanding of the prophecies had led them to pin their entire hopes on the Messiah as the answer to this predicament. If He should fail them, they would have nowhere else to turn.

Christ had not come to fail them. He knew exactly what their true needs were, and He had fully purposed to supply those needs. But the answer did not lie in the use of the weapons of force. It lay in the changing of their characters into the likeness of His own. But so intent were they on their long cherished ambitions that there was no room to consider the alternative He offered.

The climax came at the feeding of the five thousand. Throughout the long day, He had thrilled their hearts with the wonder of His teachings. The sick had been healed and the multitude fed. As the day wore on, "they said to one another, 'This is the prophet that should come into the world.'"

All day the conviction had strengthened. The hopes of the people rise higher and higher. This is He who will make Judea an earthly paradise, a land flowing with milk and honey. He can satisfy every desire. He can break the power of the hated Romans. He can deliver Judah and Jerusalem. He can heal the soldiers who are wounded in battle. He can supply whole armies with food. He can conquer the nations, and give to Israel the long-sought dominion.

In their enthusiasm the people are ready at once to crown Him king, They see that He makes no effort to attract attention or secure honor to Himself. In this He is essentially different from the priests and rulers, and they fear that He will never urge His claim to David's throne. Consulting together, they agree to take Him by force, and proclaim Him the king of Israel. The disciples unite with the multitude in declaring the throne of David the rightful inheritance of their Master. It is the modesty of Christ, they say, that causes Him to refuse the honor. Let the people exalt their Deliverer. Let the arrogant priests and rulers be forced to honor Him who comes clothed with the authority of God.

They could see that Jesus loved them and that He had all the power necessary to give them all that they could desire. The only kind of character they knew and understood was the kind which used the possession of mighty power to achieve their selfish ambitions. They could see and were unwilling to be taught that Christ did not have this kind of character. He loved the Romans as much as He loved the Jews, neither was it His way to use force to accomplish any desired objective. Therefore, in harmony with His character, He would not permit Himself to be made king by them, nor would He use His mighty powers to advantage one class of those whom He loved, above another. With an authority which none could disobey, He dismissed disciples and multitude alike.

The bitter complaint of the apostles against Him was, "Why did not He who possessed such power reveal Himself in His true character, and make their way less painful." The truth was that Christ was living out the character of God to perfection. It was because of what He was, a revelation of God to men, that He did what He did. In their failure to understand His real character, they expected an altogether different line of behavior. When He did not do what they believed that He should do, they felt cheated and betrayed.

So it was with the multitude. The next day, after closely questioning Him, they came to see that He would never use His power as they expected Him to. For this reason they left Him forever. If He would not devote His power and influence to obtaining their freedom from the Romans, they would have nothing to do with Him.

Thus it was that their misunderstanding of the character of God in Christ led them to expect from Him a complete deliverance from the Romans and their exaltation to the heights of material grandeur. He was a Jew like they were. He was sent as the Messiah to the chosen and favoured people. He had the power. Therefore, they reasoned, it was His duty to use that power to favour them. If He refused to do it, then He was nothing short of a traitor to His own. They found Him guilty of treason and determined to be revenged. Because they possessed the character which they believed He had, they did to Him with the power at their command, what they believed He should have done to the Romans. To accomplish this, they accused Him before the Romans of seeking to make Himself to be what they had actually tried to make Him, the king of the world. This was a totally false accusation which, though it enabled them to wreak vengeance on Him whom they believed had betrayed them, opened the floodgates of woe on the nation. Few people, if any, have suffered as the Jews have since that terrible time. Theirs is a fate which none would care to share.

If only they had understood the character of God so perfectly revealed in Christ, or at least been willing to be taught it, they would not have expected of Him what they did, nor would they have rejected and vengefully crucified Him. Thus the question of the character of God in Christ was the most critical element in His mission and in the fate of the Jews.

Contained in their history is a sober warning which none can treat lightly. The character of God is still the most critical issue in the church and in the world today. As were the Jews, so too have all of us been subjected to an erroneous education in respect to God's character. But God will not leave us in darkness without the opportunity to escape from it. When that light is presented to us, there is the terrible danger that we will repeat their history by rejecting the message because it does not conform to our already established ideas and does not suit our personal ambitions and dreams.

Let none repeat the fearful history of the Jews by rejecting God's truth on this basis. The outworking of such decisions have implications too terrible, final, and eternal to comtemplate. Rather, let there be an earnest, prayerful pleading with the Lord to open the eyes of our spiritual understanding to see God as He really is.

to be continued

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God's actions: The language of the Bible part 1

It is from the Bible itself that we obtain the guidelines for its interpretation. Not only does the Bible give us the message of truth but in this respect is the principle laid down in 2 Peter 1:20, "knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scrïptures is of any private interpretation."

Let the message of this verse be forever impressed upon the mind of every person approaching the study of God's Word. It provides no room for private interpretation because no prophecy of the scrïpture is to be of private interpretation. Some might tend to limit the application of this verse to those areas of scrïpture presenting foretellings of future events because this is the most generally accepted definition of the word "prophecy."

In a limited sense this is what the word "prophecy" means, but in its fuller and broader sense, "prophecy" applies to any revelations which come from the prophet. When this is understood, it will be recognized that every word in the Bible is prophecy. The prophets were not only foretellers. They were forthtellers, speaking whateter words God gave them, whether they be counsels, admonitions, revelations of the gospel or predictions of the future. Therefore this verse plainly lays down the rule that no prophecy of the entire scrïptures is to be of any private interpretation.

What is private interpretation as distinct from scrïptural interpretation? Private interpretation is that which emanates from the mind of man as his considered opinion of what the divine revelations are intended to say.

He arrives at these conclusions according to the definitions of words formed in his mind. His mind is a dictionary to which he makes reference whenever he reads a word. When he encounters a word not already stored in the limited compendium of the mind, he then turns to a comprehensive dictionary such as Oxford or Webster. Having obtained the meaning from there, he applies this word to the scrïptures being read and develops an understanding of what the scrïpture is supposed to say.

We may well define this method of Bible study as definitions by the dictionary. It is one way of studying the Bible and we may be assured that if this method is used, then inevitably, certain views will be established.

For instance, when men read in the scrïptures that God sent the flood upon the earth and that He destroyed men by raining fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, they will without thought or question take the definitions of the key words, "sent," "destroyed," and "rained," as those words are already defined in their minds. Such definitions can oly give them the picture of God personally and directly using His mighty power to lash out and liquidate His enemies.

It cannot be too strongly emphasised that while this method of interpretation is used, no conclusion other than this can be drawn. Inevitably, all who use this method must believe that God is a grim executioner and that He is doing things after the fall that He never did before.

The limited, erroneous nature of this method is exposed when it is seen that it leaves its adherents with inexplicable contradictions. They are left with no explanation of the other set of statements and the great principles which underguird God's character. They conveniently ignore those scrïptures, concentrating their study on the ones which support their chosen view.

Why then, is the method of defining by the dictionary, words describing the character and behavior of God, so certain to lead to erroneous views of scrïpture? Surely, it may be argued, the very purpose of the dictionary is to make clear what words mean. If we do not use the dictionary to define our terms, then to what shall we turn? How will we ever know the meaning of anything?

to be continued

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These are excellent questions. Within the dictionary are contained the definitions of words as those words describe human behavior. This is the key point. In this field, the dictionary is the undisputed authority and is to be heeded. But the dictionary is compiled by men who do not understand or who are not even concerned with divine behavior. If divine and human behavior were the same, then the dictionary would serve both, but they are not the same. They are very different indeed. The Lord has unmistakably warned us of this.

God says, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts." Isa.55:8,9.

What needs to be developed is that other definition which defines the words as they are used by God to describe His own behavior. Reference is made here to such key words as "destroy," "wrath," "justice," "punish," and such like.

When the Word of God declares that God does destroy, it is to be understood that this work is done in an altogether different manner from man's way, while, when it declares that God does not destroy, the caution is being sounded that God does not do it according to the human method.

While this is the guideline of study offered to us in Isaiah 55 and 28, the full confirmation of this principle will be found in the re-definition of these key words as they apply to the descrïption of divine behavior as distinct from the human. This is the key to harmonizing the apparently contradictory statements. Therefore, while the dictionary must be retained for determining the meaning of words used to describe human activity, it is to be discarded when the knowledge of God's procedures is being sought.

Having determined that these alternate definitions are not written in the dictionary, the question arises as to where they can be found. The Bible is to be used as its own dictionary. Only when we have learned to use it as such can a correct comprehension of its messages be obtained.

God understood the problems facing the human being and because He intended His word to be an understandable message to His people, He carefully incorporated within the scrïptures, means whereby a clear definition of the words as He uses them in describing His own behavior can be found. Thus there is no excuse for anybody not obtaining the scrïptural definitions. They are there. God has provided them and it is our duty to search them out and, having found them, to apply them to the study of God's word.

If the Bible is a revelation from God, it must be consistent with itself; and that as it was given for man's instruction, it must be adapted to his understanding. We must lay aside every preconceived opinion, and dispense with human commentaries, comparing scrïpture with scrïpture, statement with statement. 1 Cor.2:13; 1 SM 42; Isa.28:

As will be demonstrated, Satan achieves his misrepresentations of God's character, by having God's actions viewed as being identical to man's. The more he can make God appear to be just like men, the better pleased he is. But Christ works in the opposite direction. The more He can show that the ways of God and sinful men are different, the more successful He is in saving them from Satan's deadly lies. His revelations of God were exactly contrary to those offered by the devil. As a result of Christ's effective ministry, we can know that God's ways and man's ways are not merely different in many, but in all things.

to be continued

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IN THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES

Within the word of God, the same terminology is used consistently when describing God's action in the destruction of people and cities. God does not provide a careful explanation of what he means by these words in every case. But there are two or three places where He does and this is sufficient to inform us how every such expression is to be interpreted. Thus the truth is established "by the mouth of two or three witnesses." Matt.18:16; 2 Cor.13:1.

References will now be made to three such witnesses to clarify from the Word iself how such statements are to be understood when used to describe God's actions. Remember that it is not important what we think the Lord meant when He uses certain expressions. Our task is to be sure what the Lord meant when He used those words.

The first reference to be considered is in regard to the death of Saul, the first king of Israel. "And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him, and he was wounded of the archers. Then said Saul to his armorbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armorbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. And when his armorbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise on the sword, and died. So Saul died, and his three sons, and all his house died together." 1 Chron.10:3-6.

This is a simple, and therefore easily understood account of Saul's death. There is a background to this event which is but the full climax of that which went before. After a certain critical point in the king's life, he persistently rejected the appeals of mercy. By this means he took himself further and further outside the circle of God's protection until it was impossible for the Lord to help him. This was not because the Lord would not, but only because He could not.

Thus, when he went forth to the final battle, he went without the Lord's protection and he knew it. It was for this reason Saul sought guidance from the witch of Endor. Without God's presence, there was nothing to save him from the dreadful power of the Philistines, with the result that his destruction was a predetermined thing. As Saul's life is considered, it will be seen that he took himself away from God, placing himself where there was no defence from Satan's power, and thus, in fact, destroyed himself.

Nowhere in Saul's entire history is there anything to give us the idea that God raised His mighty hand and struck him down. The only actions we see on God's part were to extend every possible effort to save him, and then, when he would not be saved but only resisted with greater and greater vigour, the outreach of the Spirit, God had no choice but to withdraw from him. For God to have maintained a connection with Saul against his will, would have been to have forced His presence where it was not desired, and this the Lord cannot and will not do.

Having seen clearly, then, what the Lord did in respect to Saul's destruction, we are now ready to see how He described what He did. "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; And inquired not of the Lord; Therefore, He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David, the son of Jesse." 1 Chronicles 10:13,14.

God exerted all the influence of love and truth to save Saul, and when he would not be saved, then the Lord went away and left him to what he wanted, his own way. God did not raise His hand to kill Saul. He killed himself just in time to save the Philistines from doing it. The scrïptures which are the very expression of God's thought, described that in these words, "Therefore, He slew him."

This is certainly not the way we would use the words, "He slew him," to describe human behavior. If they were used to describe human behavior, then we would have known that the slayer would have come to the victim, not moved away from him; that he would have carried the sword in his own hand, not been empty handed; and that he would have brought the sword down upon the head of the gulity one.

So foreign is this form of expression to what we are accustomed to, that it is difficult to think in this new terminology. Yet, in order to truthfully understand God's thought as expressed in His word, the mind must be re-educated to think this way when reading about God's ways as distinct from men's ways. There certainly will be no difficulty in seeing that the way in which God uses words, and the way in which we use them, are contrary to each other.

The presentation of one witness is never sufficient to establish the truth of the Bible. A second must be added.

To be continued in Part 2.

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Part 2

As with Saul, so with the entire nation of Israel. Centuries of loving appeals had been spurned, the prophets had been persecuted and, in some cases, martyred. Eventually, the Son of God Himself, came with a personal message from the Father. But they rejected Him even more emphatically, underscoring the intensity of their feelings by seeking nothing less than the most torturous and humiliating death for Him they could find.

The time came when Christ recognized that Israel, as a nation, had passed the point of no return. What did He do? He declared that Jerusalem was beyond hope, and then, He quietly left them to their fate. Again, He did not do this because He wanted to, but because there was nothing else He could do that was consistent with His character of love. Here are His sad words:

"O Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not; Behold your house is left unto you desolate." Matt.23:37.

For the same reasons, and in harmony with the same principles, God left Israel exactly as He had left Saul. Thus He removed from them the only effective defence from their enemies. For centuries the devil had thirsted for the blood of the entire nation. Knowing that he could not touch them while ever the protection of God was about them, he laboured with terrible success to lead them into wicked unbelief.

So the time came when the Jews caused God's protection to be withdrawn form them, and there was nothing to shield them from disaster. It came with ferocious savagery upon their unprotected heads. The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the uttter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet, "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1.

Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal HIs own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control.

God's actions in the destruction of Jerusalem are identical to His dealings with king Saul. It is made transparent clear that they had not fallen by God's hand but by their own iniquity.

to be continued

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Here is how most of us view God's actions in this incident: With loving appeals the Lord sought to woo and to win until the time came when His patience was exhausted. Then, having passed judgment upon them, He personally decided what form of punishment He would send. Will it be a fearful earthquake, a fire, a volcanic eruption, or pestilence, or shall He send their enemies among them? In the case of Jerusalem, God decided that He would send the Romans. Having made this decree, He called them to the terrible office of being the personal executioners of His vengeance on the Jews!

That is the view most people have of the judgments of God on the Jews in A.D.70. This is the interpretation which comes of thinking that God's behavior is the same as man's, and of defining Bible terms according to dictionary meanings. While these methods are employed, it is impossible to come to any other conclusion. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work!

What befell the Jews was the natural outworking of their own course of action. It was not something brought upon them by God. The Lord did not leave them of His own choice. It was the Jews who had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, thus permitting Satan to finally work his evil designs upon them.

We have before us a revelation of the course God pursued toward the Israelites which is the same as that with Saul. It is now necessary to find how God Himself described what He did.

In the death of Israel's first king and the destruction of the nation in A.D.70, God consistently followed the same course. In both cases He worked with infinite love and patience to win them to the way of righteousness and safety but they utterly rejected it, forcing Him to withdraw and leave them to the fate which lay nearest. For Saul it was the invasion of the Philistines; for Jerusalem the Roman onslaught.

God described what He did to Saul in words very different from the ones we would use to describe what He did. God said, "I slew him." We would say, "Saul slew himself."

Because God is consistent, it is to be expected that He would describe the same action in the fall of Jerusalem in the same language. Therefore, it must be anticipated that He would say, "I destroyed Jerusalem and killed those murderors." This is just how He did describe that terrible destruction.

In Matt.22, there is a parable which, in its initial application, sets out the two final calls given to the Jewish people and their rejections of those calls. When the second call is complete and as completely rejected, the king's reaction is described in these words: "But when the King heard thereof, He was wroth; and He sent forth His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city." Matt.22:7.

This verse is couched in symbolic language. God, the Father, was the King; the armies were the Romans under Titus; the murderors were the Jews who crucified Christ; and the city was Jerusalem. The fulfilment of this prophecy came in A.D.70.

If we substitute for the symbolic words, the things symbolized, the verse must read as follows: "But when God heard thereof, He was wroth; and God sent forth His armies, the Romans, and God destroyed the Jews and burned up Jerusalem."

If these words are interpreted according to normal dictionary definitions, the only possible picture of God would be identical to earthly despots. But, an altogether different understanding is to be obtained from these verses. The choice lies between accepting a meaning according to human or scrïptural language.

God is said to destroy the impenitent sinner when He accepts the sinner's demands that he be left to himself. The fate which befalls him is not by either God's election or administration. It is the inevitable outworking of the unbeliever's course.

For those who want still further confirmation of the truths revealed in this use of the Bible as its own dictionary, referral will be made to the experience of the patriarch Job.

This will be the object of our next chapter.

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Part 3

Satan insisted on proving that Job was in the wrong and that God was playing favorites. So Satan demanded the right to test him so he could prove his point. God withdrew His protection from Job, to a degree, and left him to the power of the devil with one restriction, that he could not take his life. Everything that happened to Job was the same as previously shown except for this difference. Whereas in each of the other cases, it was the sinfulness of the rejectors of His mercy which had driven God and His protection away, Job was "a perfect and an upright man." Therefore, God's withdrawal from him was not the result of Job's sin.

Thus there are two ways in which the Lord will remove from a person and leave him to the destroyer. One is by man's sinfulness driving off the Spirit of God and the other is for righteousness' sake.

When the Lord personally described what He had done to Job, He again used the same language as previously noted. "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? And still he holdeth his integrity, although thou movest Me against him, to destroy him without cause." Job 2:3.

Once again this is not the way we would use those words according to everyday usage. Our use of them would convey a meaning quite opposite from what God intended when He used those words. It would be impossible to arrive at the meanings of the words, according to God's usage of them, without the guidance of the Word of God. Only from there could such an interpretation be obtained. That is, it is the only dictionary which does give this definition of these words.

It may take some time to train our minds to carry these double definitions for the same words. Conscious effort mut be made until it is just as natural to think of the new definitions as of the old. It must become second nature to ascribe one meaning to the words when they describe divine conduct and another when they deal with the human. Here is a comparison between the two:

When man destroys, he moves toward the victim with deliberate intention to kill. When God "destroys," He moves away from the subject with no intention to kill. When man destroys, he carries the weapons of death in his hands. When God "destroys," He carries no weapons but lays down control of the destructive powers.

At this point two questions are apt to arise. The first is: After all, what is the essential difference between the direct act of destroying, or that of departing to leave the person to die? In both cases it is God's action which brings about the destruction and therefore, in each case, He is the destroyer.

This would be true if God's withdrawal was His own act, but it is not. The fact is that He is driven away. Men drive God away, depriving Him of any possibility of remaining unless He forces His presence, which the Lord will never do.

The second question is this: If God does not in fact destroy, then why does He use this word to describe His actions? Does this not tend to make the scrïptures confusing? Again this is an excellent question, in answer to which it must be said that this is the right word to use in describing God's actions, for there is a deep and important sense in which it is true that He does destroy.

Scrïptural evidence shows that God comes to man in one role only, which is as a Savior. But the effect of that effort is not always a saving one. With the majority, the effect is to harden them in rebellion and to cause them to withdraw themselves from the voice of loving entreaty. Thus God destroys by trying to save. The more He exerts His saving power, the more men are driven by their rejection of it to destruction. It is in this sense that He "destroys."

It is not God that blinds our eyes or hardens our hearts. He sends us light to correct our errors, and to lead us in safe paths; it is by the rejection of this light that the eyes are blinded and the heart hardened. Often the process is gradual, and almost imperceptible.

The outstanding example of this outworking is the history of Pharaoh of Egypt. The Lord said, "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart..." Exodus 7:3. Compare with Exodus 8:32,19; 9:34. "Pharaoh hardened his heart."

To harden is to destroy. It is not physical destruction but spriritual. This spiritual destruction is the prelude to the physical which must inevitably follow. The scrïptures plainly say that it was God who did it and He did, but every reference which throws light on what God did, shows that His action was to send spiritual light, and loving appeals to Pharaoh. These were designed to soften and save, not to harden him, but that which was sent to save, destroyed him instead, because he rejected it. Note carefully that it was not the light, but his rejection of it that hardened and destroyed him.

We must clearly understand that the only effort that God puts forth, is to save. That effort can and does produce two opposite results. In the hearts and lives of those who accept God's work, it achieves its intended purpose. It softens, changes, cleanses, and restores. It is unto life eternal.

But in the lives of those who reject that saving ministry, there is a terrible work of destruction going forward. It is a destroying work which firstly breaks down every spiritual response within, then hardens the heart in rebellion, develops every sinful trait, and compels the Spirit of God to withdraw His protection. This leaves the individual to the choice he has made; to a position where there is no protection whatsoever from the destructive malice of Satan and sin.

God "destroys," "hardens," but by trying to save, by trying to soften. Therefore we can know that, in fact, God is a Savior and a Savior only. He "destroys," by trying to save so that the more His saving power is manifest in the world and that power is rejected, the more swiftly and terribly are the rejectors destroyed by the simple outworking of the forces involved.

Thus God's way of destroying is entirely different from man's way. Once this is clearly comprehended, it becomes possible to view all God's actions in a new and refreshing and enlightened way. As a result, the whole of the scrïptures emerge as one great harmonious truth.

Concluded

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The above presentation were based on the following statements from the pen of inspiration:

«Tradition and misinterpretation have obscured the teaching of the Bible concerning the character of God, the nature of His government, and the principles of His dealing with sin.» G.C.492

Could it be that we too have adopted erroneous views concerning the principles of God’s dealing with sin? The next statement leaves no doubt about that:

«The understanding of the people of God has been blinded, for Satan has misrepresented the character of God. Our good and gracious Lord has been presented before us clothed in the attributes of Satan, and men and women who have been seeking for truth, have so long regarded God in a false light that it is difficult to dispel the cloud that obscures His glory from their view. Many have been living in an atmosphere of doubt, and it seems almost impossible for them to lay hold on the hope set before them in the gospel of Christ.» 1 S.M.355.

First, to help us understand God’s ways of dealing with men, we read : «The principles of God’s dealing with men are ever the same.» G.C.343. For «God is the same yesterday, today, and for ever.» Heb.13:8.

Is God the executor of the sentence that follows transgression ? What does the Bible say ? «Evil shall slay the wicked.» Ps.34:21. Here is one of the principles of God dealing with men :

«God’s restraining power is in a measure removed from the agencies of evil, so that a train of circumstances arises which punishes sin with sin.» P.P.728. Thus it is written, «God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression.» G.C.36.

«The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan.» Ibid, p.36.

This is what inspiration defines as the «wrath» of God. His «wrath» is «complete» (Rev.15:1) when He has no other choice but to abandon the sinner or a nation to the mercy of the enemy. That is what happened with the Jews at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. «Then God withdrew His protection from them and removed His restraining power from Satan and his angels, and the nation was left to the control of the leader she had chosen.» G.C.28.

Yet «Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control.» The Great Controversy, p.36.

The destruction of Jerusalem is a type of the destruction of the world which will take place when the intercession of Christ shall cease:

«When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an Intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent… Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old.» The Great Controversy, p.614.

At the time of the fifth plague, «The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnations upon the ministers. Unfaithful pastors have prophesied smooth things… The multitudes are filled with fury. ‘We are lost!’ they cry, ‘and you are the cause of our ruin ; ’ and they turn upon the false shepherds. (this is the sixth plague) The very ones that once admired them most will pronounce the most dreadful curses upon them. The very hands that once crowned them with laurels will be raised for their destruction. The swords which were to slay God’s people are now employed to destroy their enemies. Everywhere there is strife and bloodshed.» The Great Controversy, p.656.

Concerning the destruction of Lucifer and his angels, the Lord says, «I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.» Ezekiel 28:18.

The Bible is its own interpreter. «Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.» Ezekiel 28:7-10.

The «seas» represent «multitudes, nations, peoples.» Rev.17:15. Lucifer and his angels will fall at the hand of the wicked after the thousand years.

Your comments will be most welcome,

sky

[John317]

According to this view, how should we understand the death of the wicked at the Second Coming of Christ (2 Thess. 1:9), and the destruction of the wicked at the end of the one thousand years, as described in Rev. 20:9?

Also please include the statements in GC 672, 673.

[BobRyan]

We know that Lucifer and his angels did not war with themselves and then kick themselves out of heaven. We know that Adam did not kick himself out of the graden and we know that the people of Noah's day did not figure out a way to flood the earth.

We also know that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah did not figure out some amazing way to dump fire and brimstone out of the sky and we know that Annanias and Saphira did not simply eat bad food and have a heart attack when they saw Peter. The rebellious Hebrews at the foot of Sinai sent no geologic-bomb into the earth to make it upon up and swallow them alive into the ground.

God says He brings calamity in his word.

In the special case of man-made destroyers - One could argue that God simply withdraws protection in some cases to allow the forces of evil to destroy lives. But that is like saying that a parent simply allows a bully to come into the house and beat up one of their children while they stand and watch. It hardly absolves the parent from responsibility.

In Luke 12:45-54 we are told that those who KNEW their master's will and did not do it -- and who did "deeds worthy of flogging" (i.e. sent to lake of fire) will receive "many lashes" while others who knew less would receive few.

There is no way for human or demon or devil to "keep themselves alive supernaturally" in the lake of fire and thus ensure that the exact "measured amount of torment owed" is paid.

in Christ,

Bob

[skyblue888]

Good questions John. The Scriptures you gave and the pages from The Great Controversy need to be answered.

When trying to explain these passages of Scripture and the statements from Mrs. White, one must always remember that Scripture is explained by Scripture and the statements from the pen of inspiration are to be explained in the same way.

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given as Scripture is explained by Scripture." Selected Messages, Vol.1, p.42.

I will get back to you later today.

sky

[skyblue888]

I understand where you are coming from, Bob. These are the arguments that are commonly used to show that God does stand toward the sinner as the executioner of the sentence against transgression.

I will get back to you later today.

sky

[John317]

Thank you, sky. Looking forward to it.

[John317]

Those are thoughts that I also have considered. I'm open to different ways of viewing these things but they have to be consistent with Scripture and the Spirit of prophecy.

[John317]

I will get back to you later today.

sky

No hurry, sky. Just looked for you last night.

[skyblue888]

Sorry for the long dealy in answering both your posts John and Bob. Before we go any further, I would like to bring to your attention a statement which I find very illuminating"

"I was shown that Satan would entangle and then destroy, if he could, the souls he had tempted. God will bear long, but there is a bound to His mercy, a line which marks His mercy and His justice. I was shown that the jugdments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then, if those who have been objects of His special care follow their own course, independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they chose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them." E.G. White, 14 MR, 3.1.

Does not that statement confirm what was quoted earlier from The Great Controversy?

"He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is no power to control the passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and malignity of Satan." p.36.

Thus we read that "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." Ibid, p.36.

Since this is the case, it therefore follows that we must be careful how we read or interpret the language of the Bible describing God's actions. We must let the Bible and the SOP be their own interpreters.

sky

[skyblue888]

We have been told that the destruction of Jerusalem is an example of the destruction of the world after the close of probation. We read that "The Lord withdrew His protection from the Jews and removed His restraining power from Satan and his angels, and the nation was left to the control of the leader she had chosen." The Great Controversy, p.28.

Yet, most people believe that it was God who directly brought His judgments upon them. Generally speaking, this is the way the language of the Bible is understood. And, for this reason, we read, from the pen of inspiration, that "Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is THUS that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work." The Great Controversy, p.35.

What happened to the Jewish people will also happen when probation for this world shall close:

"Men have reached a point in insolence and disobedience which shows that their cup of iniquity is almost full. Many have well-nigh passed the boundary of mercy. Soon God will show that He is indeed the living God. He will say to the angels, 'No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity upon the children of disobedience; for the cup of their iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work." The Review and Herald, September 17, 1901.

And it is written, "The principles of God's dealing with sin are ever the same." The Great Controversy, p.343.

Unless we agree with the light shining from these statements, it will be very difficult for us to come to an understanding of the language of the Bible regarding God's actions.

sky

[skyblue888]

The question immediately arises as to how the wicked could suffer exactly according to their desserts unless some intelligence calculates the measure of their individual punishments and so controls events that they will be kept alive until the full punishment has been exacted.

On the surface, this would seem to be impossible. Therefore it is considered that God, being the only one with the power to either estimate the deserved chastisement or to control its administration, must surely be the One who executes the sinners in the end.

Anyone who understands and accepts the principles of God's dealing with sin laid down so far, will recognize that there must be another answer. Perhaps it has not yet been revealed. This should not drive us to the conclusion that inasmuch as the real answer is wanting, we have to accept another. One thing must be very clear and it is that God does not execute the sinner, now, or in the past, or ever. It is sin which does that.

"Evil shall slay the wicked." Ps.34:21.

To understand how sin can do this and selectively punish one more than another, requires knowledge of laws which as yet are beyond our ken. One thing we do know, however, is that the more sinful a person is, the more desperately he stuggles to live in the face of death. The true child of God does not fight the Grim Reaper. He knows his time has come and that life is safe in the hands of God. But not so with the rebel against God's laws and government. He resists with all the power of his soul, and is able to prolong his life beyond its natural span.

No one has been so great a sinner as Satan, and no one will fight the inroads of death with greater determination than he. Thus he will prolong his life far beyond that point where he would have died if he had resigned himself to his fate. In so doing he will extend his suffering until he has suffered for all the sins he has committed and caused others to commit.

Finally, it will be all over and the "fire which had consumed the wicked," will "burn up the rubbish" and "purify the earth." Early Writings, p.295.

The deadly experiment will be ended and it will be demonstrated eternally that through it all, God did not change. When sin entered it changed angels, men, the animals, and the operations of nature, but it did not change God. Nothing was introduced into His ways after the coming of sin which was not there before. He never destroyed before sin entered, never executed, never punished, and never forced. The entry of sin did not cause Him to begin doing any of these things in order to solve the problems sin imposed upon Him.

Satan and evil angels did their utmost to provoke Him to anger and arise to sweet away the rebellious inhabitants of the earth, but He would not be provoked, angered, insulted, or hurt. He emerged from the terrible ordeal as immaculate as He entered it. Satan has not been able to sustain a single point against Him and it is shown that the way of the cross--the power of self-sacrificing love which serves, no matter what the cost to the server--is stronger than all the ways of force combined.

At all time "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." The Great Controversy, p.36.

This principle is always true for God never changes for "He is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

sky

[skyblue888]

Bob, you wrote: We know that Lucifer and his angels did not war with themselves and then kick themselves out of heaven.

*******************************************************

There is a perfect answer to this objection and will share it with you a bit later.

sky

[skyblue888]

Bob, you wrote: We know that Lucifer and his angels did not war with themselves and then kick themselves out of heaven.

*******************************************************

There is a perfect answer to this objection and will share it with you a bit later.

sky

Those who do not really believe that God's love is infinite and that He never changes by so much as a hair's breadth, will argue that there was a limit to His patience and when that was exhausted with Lucifer, He turned to active warfare to run him out of Heaven. Their proof text is Revelation 12:7-9:

"And there was war in Heaven: Michael and His angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in Heaven, and the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world."

To millions, these words have pictured an intense physical struggle between the forces loyal to Heaven and the rebels. It has been seen as a conflict involving the use of physical power versus physical power. Great artists have portrayed Christ at the head of hordes of shining angels standing with an unsheathed sword before which Lucifer is plunging downwards into the darkness of empty space.

But this is a superficial and inaccurate view of the nature of the stuggle. It is a view consequent with the practice of seeing God's behaviour as being identical to man's. There was war in Heaven, it is true, but not war as men fight. Satan was cast out, but it was God's way of doing it, not man's.

"God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy and love; and the presentation of these principles are the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power." Desire of Ages, p.759.

In that struggle then, God did not use force. This weapon is never found in His Kingdom but only in that of Satan's. Therefore, it was by another way that Satan was cast out of Heaven, never to return. God fought with none other than the weapons consistent with His Kingdom. It is difficult for sinful man to understand the nature of those weapons for they are so foreign to his experience and nature.

The struggle in Heaven was a very real one nonetheless. It was war, a total effort on Satan's part to change the entire structure of Heaven's order and organization. In order to succeed, he needed to convert the angels' allegiance away from God to himself. At that time the only sword Satan could use was that of deception, against which God used only the weapon of truth. The battle raged on over a considerable time span until the point was reached where the devil had penetrated as far as he could. Each angel had made his choice with sufficient numbers standing for the truth to enable God to maintain His position as Protector of the heavenly hosts. With God's continued presence assured, there was no hope of the proposed new order being established. The old and proven order would remain. But Satan's deformation had brought him into such disharmony with those principles that he found it impossible to remain where they continued to operate. To him, Heaven had become a place that was foreign, unacceptable, and unendurable, and he could not leave it quickly enough.

It was the truth of God which drove him out, not the use of any kind of physical force. The same reason for Satan's leaving Heaven is the reason why the wicked would never be happy if they were to go there. They would not be able to tolerate the place and would want to leave it as soon as possible. They would be driven out by their sheer unfitness to remain:

"Could those whose lives have been spent in rebellion against God be suddenly transported to Heaven, and witness the high, the holy state of perfection that ever exists there, every soul filled with love, every countenance beaming with joy, enrapturing music in melodious strains rising in honor to God and the Lamb, and ceaseless streams of light flowing upon the redeemed from the face of Him who sits upon the throne,--could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for Heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of Heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion has unfitted them for Heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from Heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God." The Great Controversy, 542,543.

Confirmation of this is already available. The worldly and ungodly today find that the society of true Christians engaged in devoted worship of God is intolerable to them and they desire only to leave such society. They are happier elsewhere. Satan's rejection of the ways and principles of God in exchange for other pursuits so worked changes in him that he could no longer suffer its holy atmosphere. Being there was such torture to his deranged nature that he had to go and go he did.

AS Pharaoh's heart was hardened by his continual resistance of God's efforts to save him, so Lucifer's whole being was warped by his fighting off God's loving efforts to draw him and his followers back from the abyss into which their steps were surely taking them. This is how Satan was driven from Heaven, not by God directly driving him out, but by His efforts to save him.

"My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8,9.

sky

[BobRyan]

Bob, you wrote: We know that Lucifer and his angels did not war with themselves and then kick themselves out of heaven.

*******************************************************

There is a perfect answer to this objection and will share it with you a bit later.

sky

Good because so far I so no exegesis of the Bible at all in these long long posts -- nor do I see anything to counter the Bible point that Soddom and Gomorrah did not rain fire down on themselves out of the sky -- nor did the wicked during the flood make the world erupt into a world wide flood -- nor did Annanias and Saphirah commit suicide when they met Peter, nor do the wicked at the end of time resurrect themselves - create the lake of fire and then jump in -- The Bible is pretty clear on those points as it turns out. Nor did Lucifer war with himself and then throw himself out of heaven.

As for Ellen White -- in Story of Redemption when Lucifer begs to be pardoned and re-established back into heaven -- it is not Lucifer that answers Lucifer telling him that his request is denied. EGW's account has God informing them that they must leave that they have gone too far -- and then war breaks out with the Son and the loyal angels opposing Lucifer... in fact she states that The Father and the Son agree to a contest that is "force against force" and "strength against strength". There is no amount of spin doctoring that is going to solve that one because Ellen White appears to completely endorse the Rev 12 account of it -

The one thing that is very very clear so far -- you are not engaging in any Bible exegesis at all to show that your ideas have merit.

That is going to be the first clue to the unbiased objective reader that there is a serious problem here.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Bob, you wrote: We know that Lucifer and his angels did not war with themselves and then kick themselves out of heaven.

*******************************************************

There is a perfect answer to this objection and will share it with you a bit later.

sky

Those who do not really believe that God's love is infinite and that He never changes by so much as a hair's breadth, will argue that there was a limit to His patience and when that was exhausted with Lucifer, He turned to active warfare to run him out of Heaven. Their proof text is Revelation 12:7-9:

"And there was war in Heaven: Michael and His angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in Heaven, and the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world."

To millions, these words have pictured an intense physical struggle between the forces loyal to Heaven and the rebels. It has been seen as a conflict involving the use of physical power versus physical power. Great artists have portrayed Christ at the head of hordes of shining angels standing with an unsheathed sword before which Lucifer is plunging downwards into the darkness of empty space.