What is the balance between living destitute and living like a king?

[Doug]

I know the Bible talks about riches in Heaven and not to be attached to what you have on earth since you can't bring it with you, but I have heard other people say that if you strive for things in life you somehow aren't being a proper Christian.

I have even heard people tell me that wanting to go back to school and get a better job for more money is being "greedy", and to be comfortable with what you have.

Eventually I'd like a new car, but if I had to give it up in order to be saved it wouldn't hurt at all.

Any ideas on this?

[Bravus]

I suspect Robert will be by in a minute with his 'unless you sell all you have and give to the poor you're a selfish sinner' schpiel...

My understanding is that Jesus asked that of the rich young ruler because he was a person who clutched his wealth too tightly - more tightly than God - and his only path to salvation was letting it go. That's not the case for everyone.

At the same time, I think there are issues about our capacity to help others: can I justify having a $60,000 car when a $5,000 car would do all the same things, a sliver less comfortably, and when there are people starving in the world, or living in debt slavery for generations for a debt that is a fraction of the difference?

I believe God intends us to care for and support our families, and also to support others. He also plans for us to grow and learn and improve ourselves - but if our primary motivation for studying is to make more money for ourselves and our own pleasure, that's probably a problem. If it is to work at a job that is more fulfilling, and that serves more people, and also that pays more and allows us to help others more, it's something we definitely should do.

This is part of the problem with debt: I know I make a very decent income, and could both support my family and help others, but bad choices in the past, and buying pleasures on credit that we couldn't yet afford, means most of our free income is tied up servicing debt. That makes life more of a struggle than it needs to be for us, and also reduces our capacity to help out those who need it more than us. So good financial education can also be an important spiritual benefit.

Hope these musings are useful to you and others, Doug - good questions to raise.

[Amelia]

I think it's basic wants and needs. God has promised to meet our needs

Paul said in Philippians 4:10-19

And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.

As we give, so shall we receive.

If God gives us meat enough for a meal yet we say, God I want the whole cow; we are seeking riches beyond our needs.

I will tell you this story.

I know a man who all his life craved to climb the ladder of success. He was never happy in the moment of his life. Always striving for the next level. He went into debt to look the part of the level of life he wanted. After a few years of level earnings (moderate increases and bonus' aside) he decided that his level of education, a college degree, wasn't enough and was holding him back. So he decided to go for his Masters of business. Because surely this would finally gain him the level of success he craved. For two years he put everything else aside for this goal. He also went into more debt for this degree. His marriage suffered. His friends suffered. His family suffered. But he said it would all be good once he was done. After graduating, he went to his boss and presented the paper showing how much more learned he was than before. But his expectations were crushed. There was just no budget for the extra learning. So the man went job hunting. If one company wouldnt pay him surely another would. He got that other position but not more pay. But said the man, this position has greater opportunity for advancement. Well he is still in the same job at the same level. And the extra education? Well, there are more young people going for their Masters straight from college and then into the work force, now that ever before. They are a dime a doz. And companies know this. They can hire who they want at less pay than they are willing to up the salary of an older employee who wont be around in 10 yrs.

It's hard to say that if he had just worked his way through the process of advancement, he would have climed higher. Hard to say that if he had just prayed more or listened for Jesus more; he would have gained success. But I see it as a classic "want" vs "need". He wanted more than God was willing to give him at the time so he went around God and didn't get far at all.

[Dottie]

When John Paul Getty was asked how much money is enough, he replied, "Just a little bit more."

[Bravus]

Edumacation done with the express goal of making more money is usually pretty pointless, for the reasons Amelia's story outlines so nicely. But education for the sake of learning is never pointless.

[Amelia]

I love to learn. But I will never again go into debt to do it. Once was enough.

[Bravus]

Well, of course, I think learning should be free, but that's a whole other debate!

[Dr. Shane]

The developed world funds the advancement of the gospel. It behooves Adventists living in the developed world to make as much money as they can. However we need to learn how to use our money. Crown Financial Ministries has counselors all across the US and has many published materials anyone can take advantage of.

I am a believer that we should decided on what kind of lifestyle we are going to live and then follow that. When our income increases we can give more to charity. Crown teaches us to avoid debt, build up a savings account to cover six months expenses and to have a set amount to invest for retirement.

The problem is that most people increase their spending and lifestyle as their income increases. When I first got out of college I bought a mobile home. I made $22K/year. I now make over $60K/year and still live in my mobile home. I bought some property and am building on a two-story addition which will be a living room and master bedroom but I am not borrowing money to do it. I have no desire for house payment or a car payment. I do however see a lot of ministries I want to financially support.

[Doug]

This is how I plan to live. I plan to make more money but not live in excess. All I need is a 4 bedroom house, a flatscreen tv and a decent rwd car. Nothing else.

[Bravus]