Why didn't Jesus come and die right away for Adam and Eve?

[Lineman]

Why did Jesus wait until things were really bad before He came as man's substitute? If He was trying to save Adam and Eve couldn't He have come right away and save all the other trouble that came later?

[John317]

Probably for the same reason that God is going to wait until humanity and the world are in the worst condition possible before He rescues us. God is out to demonstrate that if He didn't rescue us, humanity, apart from Him, would self-destruct.

God's whole plan has been to allow Satan enough rope to hang himself by proving that his way is wrong. Millions of people know this already but there are still billions who haven't made up their minds yet.

All of the angels and the rest of the intelligent universe saw at the cross what Satan is really like-- they saw Satan kill His Creator!-- but most of humanity still aren't clear about the issues.

[nuff sed]

Sorry, the worst time spiritually in this earth's history according to SOP was during Enoch's time.

[Lineman]

Probably for the same reason that God is going to wait until humanity and the world are in the worst condition possible before He rescues us. God is out to demonstrate that if He didn't rescue us, humanity, apart from Him, would self-destruct.

God's whole plan has been to allow Satan enough rope to hang himself by proving that his way is wrong.

Gladussee is saying that the worst time in history was before the flood and I can see that as being why God destroyed the earth at that time. This has given Satan two different chances to prove his claims that no one needs laws. It also allows us and the rest of the universe to see what happens if man has great intelligence and what happens if we are not so smart.

The "worst time spiritually in this earth's history" will again happen because we know that "as in the days of Noah...".

Thanks

[John317]

"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

When the third angel's message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received "the latter rain," "the refreshing from the presence of the Lord," and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, "It is done;" and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up; "the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven," is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.

When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. GC 613, 614

The "time of trouble, such as never was," is soon to open upon us; and we shall need an experience which we do not now possess and which many are too indolent to obtain. It is often the case that trouble is greater in anticipation than in reality; but this is not true of the crisis before us. The most vivid presentation cannot reach the magnitude of the ordeal. GC 622

[John317]

I agree.

It's clear from both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy that humanity would destroy both the earth and themselves if Christ didn't return. 1 T 204

Humans didn't have the power in the time of Enoch to destroy the whole earth. We have that power now, just before the Second Coming.

[John317]

Sorry, the worst time spiritually in this earth's history according to SOP was during Enoch's time.

What made it the worst time spiritually was the fact that they had such great light. They rebelled when they had no excuse. They had Adam and Enoch living among them, and they could actually see the gate of Eden.

At the end God allows the universe to see what people are like when they are totally apart from God. He allows Satan full control, which God has never done before. At that time the whole world will be involved in a time of trouble such as never existed since there was a nation.

Quote:

The advantages enjoyed by men of that age to gain a knowledge of God through His works have never been equaled since. And so far from being an era of religious darkness, that was an age of great light. All the world had opportunity to receive instruction from Adam, and those who feared the Lord had also Christ and angels for their teachers. And they had a silent witness to the truth, in the garden of God, which for so many centuries remained among men. At the cherubim-guarded gate of Paradise the glory of God was revealed, and hither came the first worshipers. Here their altars were reared, and their offerings presented. It was here that Cain and Abel had brought their sacrifices, and God had condescended to communicate with them.

Skepticism could not deny the existence of Eden while it stood just in sight, its entrance barred by watching angels. The order of creation, the object of the garden, the history of its two trees so closely connected with man's destiny, were undisputed facts. And the existence and supreme authority of God, the obligation of His law, were truths which men were slow to question while Adam was among them.

Notwithstanding the prevailing iniquity, there was a line of holy men who, elevated and ennobled by communion with God, lived as in the companionship of heaven. They were men of massive intellect, of wonderful attainments. They had a great and holy mission--to develop a character of righteousness, to teach a lesson of godliness, not only to the men of their time, but for future generations. Only a few of the most prominent are mentioned in the Scriptures; but all through the ages God had faithfully witnesses, truehearted worshipers. GC 83, 84

[John317]

The "worst time spiritually in this earth's history" will again happen because we know that "as in the days of Noah...".

Quote:

By faith Enoch "was translated that he should not see death; . . . for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." Hebrews 11:5. In the midst of a world by its iniquity doomed to destruction, Enoch lived a life of such close communion with God that he was not permitted to fall under the power of death. The godly character of this prophet represents the state of holiness which must be attained by those who shall be "redeemed from the earth" (Revelation 14:3) at the time of Christ's second advent. Then, as in the world before the Flood, iniquity will prevail. Following the promptings of their corrupt hearts and the teachings of a deceptive philosophy, men will rebel against the authority of Heaven. But like Enoch, God's people will seek for purity of heart and conformity to His will, until they shall reflect the likeness of Christ. Like Enoch, they will warn the world of the Lord's second coming and of the judgments to be visited upon transgression, and by their holy conversation and example they will condemn the sins of the ungodly. As Enoch was translated to heaven before the destruction of the world by water, so the living righteous will be translated from the earth before its destruction by fire. GC 88, 89

[Robert]

Why did Jesus wait until things were really bad before He came as man's substitute? If He was trying to save Adam and Eve couldn't He have come right away and save all the other trouble that came later?

I'm a bit late, but...

Two reasons off the top of my head:

1] Sin is a deceiver. The love of self sounds wonderful, so much that 1/3 the angels in heaven bought into it. At the fall neither the angels, Adam & Eve nor the unfallen worlds understood the nature of sin. So the only way to expose anything is to allow it to be tested. That takes time.

2] The fruit of self-love is ultimately murder. Remember that Lucifer came up with the concept of self-seeking. So the only way to get what He wanted was to murder Christ. The cross forever demonstrates the ultimate fruit of selfishness because it was there that Lucifer was unmasked.

So only at the cross was Lucifer exposed for he was a murderer from the beginning. Now the unfallen universe fully comprehended the nature of sin. The only problem is that fallen mankind has yet to fully understand it. The future will prove that the love of self brings destruction. We will see that, hopefully not in our generation, but one day soon.

EGW quotes:

"The law of self-serving is the law of self-destruction."

"Self-renunciation is the great law of self-preservation, and

self-preservation is the law of self-destruction."

"Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation."

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Gladusee, you said

Quote:

Sorry, the worst time spiritually in this earth's history according to SOP was during Enoch's time.

I have always understood the worst time spiritually was just before Jesus came to this earth.

The people whom God had called to be the pillar and ground of the truth had become representatives of Satan. They were doing the work that he desired them to do, taking a course to misrepresent the character of God, and cause the world to look upon Him as a tyrant. The very priests who ministered in the temple had lost sight of the significance of the service they performed. They had ceased to look beyond the symbol to the thing signified. In presenting the sacrificial offerings they were as actors in a play. The ordinances which God Himself had appointed were made the means of blinding the mind and hardening the heart. God could do no more for man through these channels. The whole system must be swept away.

The deception of sin had reached its height. All the agencies for depraving the souls of men had been put in operation. The Son of God, looking upon the world, beheld suffering and misery. With pity He saw how men had become victims of satanic cruelty. He looked with compassion upon those who were being corrupted, murdered, and lost. They had chosen a ruler who chained them to his car as captives. Bewildered and deceived, they were moving on in gloomy procession toward eternal ruin,--to death in which is no hope of life, toward night to which comes no morning. Satanic agencies were incorporated with men. The bodies of human beings, made for the dwelling place of God, had become the habitation of demons. The senses, the nerves, the passions, the organs of men, were worked by supernatural agencies in the indulgence of the vilest lust. The very stamp of demons was impressed upon the countenances of men. Human faces reflected the expression of the legions of evil with which they were possessed. Such was the prospect upon which the world's Redeemer looked. What a spectacle for Infinite Purity to behold!

DA 36 From "The Fullness of Time"

That sounds pretty bad to me and I always thought this was the worst time spritually on this planet. Could you post the quote you mentioned, I'd like to see it?

thanks much,

Norman

[Lineman]

Humans didn't have the power in the time of Enoch to destroy the whole earth. We have that power now, just before the Second Coming.

[Doug]

So once the new earth comes down is sin gone forever? Or are other universes and planets corruptable? I wonder if we will watch another planet go through what we are going through now.

And why would satan go through all this if he knows what will ultimately happen to him?

Is the Earth an example for the entire universe on what sin is?

[phkrause]

At the end of the 1000 years at the 2nd resirection satan and his angels are destroyed for good and sin is no more. I believe that you can find this in Revelation. And also EGW elaborates on this.

pk

[Doug]

No I mean could sin happen again? If we have free will could sin pop up again?

[Lineman]

No I mean could sin happen again? If we have free will could sin pop up again?