Weaponless Against Homosexuality?

[Raphael]

Just stumbled on SDA Kinship website, to find them stating that there is nothing in the Bible against homosexuality or silent about it and that SDA ministers have arrived upon the same conclusion. Is our position that weak? Thought Sodom and Gomorrah was glaring enough..

I personally prefer prevention to the almost impossible cure, in belief that homosexuality arises out of repression where highest ranking repressions would start out from prisons and jails to strictest religion adhering societies then to lesser ones.. Perhaps this was never meant to be stifled or suppressed in anyway, where doing so made it then, reappear in abnormal weirder (if not hideous) forms..

Any valiant support..?

Happy Sabbath,

Raphael

NB: You can Google "SDA Kinship" to find out more. It's a site for former and active SDA ministers and members who are into the 'brotherly' and 'sisterly' love and need a supporting community..

[Robert]

...there is nothing in the Bible against homosexuality....Thought Sodom and Gomorrah was glaring enough.

Of course homosexuality is sin. The act is sin...the mind set is sin. Through God these tendencies can be overcome so one can live a life free from sexual perversion. Yet God loves the struggling homosexual that has given his life over to Him. He might find himself doing the things he hates, but as long as he maintains his faith in Christ, which includes repentance, he can be sure of his salvation. Nevertheless, the aim is to leave this sin behind and move forward. But Sodom and Gomorrah's problems were more than just homosexuality. It was sexual immorality, which included homosexuality and much more.

Go to Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things [they worshiped the work of their hands]. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

The fruit of rejecting God is ungodliness. You become a total slave to the desires of your nature. The essence of our human natures is the love of self, pride and self-seeking. In other words human nature is egocentric. Human nature is always trying to move up...it's always trying to be # one!

When it comes to sex the same principle is there. Wilt Chamberlain claimed he had sex with 20,000 women. It's all about ego - it's about manipulation and lies. Thus this principle makes women nothing more than a piece of meat to satisfy its never ending lust. And from here you have homosexuality, bestiality, orgies, etc. This eventually expands into other sins such as jealousy, hatred, fits of rag, and even murder.

Sodom and Gomorrah's problem was they were living their lives without God. They rejected their need of God and hence God gave them up to their own desires. They hardened their hearts and the fruit of this sin was ungodliness. Not only did God remove Himself, but He also removed His protection. This is why these cities were destroyed.

Rob

[Raphael]

The claim that there is nothing in the Bible against homosexuality is not entirely correct. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah goes that it was punished for its evil doings.. nothing mentioned yet about homosexuality, but then the story where the angels that came to warn Lot became targets of mob homosexual rape as depicted in the Biblical accounts. The term homosexuality did not exist then but the description fits in. Am I correct in this matter?

Best,

Raphael

[Robert]

Jude 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[Gerr]

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Lev 18:22

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality." 1 Cor 6:9

[Bravus]

Yes, but there are several other places in the Bible where it says Sodom and Gomorrah were published for the way they treated the poor and strangers, and the issue with the angels was about rape, not consensual sex. Not that it will change anyone's mind, but a fairminded look at the issue rather than a prejudiced one shows it's a little more complicated.

[Dr. Shane]

I would say a city that raped its poor and strangers was probably deserving of God's wrath. Of course, we are all deserving of His wrath for one reason or another which is why we need a Savior.

[Gerr]

Yes, but there are several other places in the Bible where it says Sodom and Gomorrah were published for the way they treated the poor and strangers, and the issue with the angels was about rape, not consensual sex. Not that it will change anyone's mind, but a fairminded look at the issue rather than a prejudiced one shows it's a little more complicated.

I have no ax to grind. If the reference regarding homosexuality were limited only to the incident about Sodom and Gomorrah, then I would agree with you. Leviticus and Paul are too clear for me to have no doubt about it. Does consensuality not make it a sin? How about consensual group sex for married people?

Gerry

[John317]

Yes, but there are several other places in the Bible where it says Sodom and Gomorrah were published for the way they treated the poor and strangers, and the issue with the angels was about rape, not consensual sex. Not that it will change anyone's mind, but a fairminded look at the issue rather than a prejudiced one shows it's a little more complicated.

Check out Ellen White's remarks on the sins and the destruction of Sodom, in Testimonies On Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, pp. 119-121. She said that the sins mentioned in Ezekiel 16: 49 "led to dissolute morals." These pages leave no doubt that she is talking about homosexuality as well as other sexual immorality which brought the destruction of Sodom. "Not one particle of Sodomitish impurity will escape the wrath of God at the execution of the judgment." By that, I'm quite sure she didn't intend for us to believe she was talking about mistreatment of the poor.

[Raphael]

Hi,

Thanks for the confirming replies that there are Biblically sound verses against homosexuality.

Its kind of 'brave' for them (the site) to openly claim that there is nothing Biblical against homosexuality and that our SDA ministers agree to that..

But certainly, it is understandable how seemingly unbreakable the vicious cycle they are in.. is that impossibly hard to break the chains of homosexuality and regain freedom back to normal (personal) life?

Best,

Raphael

[Kevin H]

The claim that there is nothing in the Bible against homosexuality is not entirely correct. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah goes that it was punished for its evil doings.. nothing mentioned yet about homosexuality, but then the story where the angels that came to warn Lot became targets of mob homosexual rape as depicted in the Biblical accounts. The term homosexuality did not exist then but the description fits in. Am I correct in this matter?

Best,

Raphael

The problem with the story of Sodom and Gamorrah is that it was an ancient belief that if you raped a man you were stealing some of his life force, and therefore some of what would have grown in his garden will now grow in your garden. Some of the lambs his sheep would have produced will now be born by your sheep, some of the children his wife would have had your wife will now have. If you were to rape him until he dies, then you would have stolen all of his life forces and not only get some of his fruits and vegtables and flocks and children but all of them would transfer over to his victims.

It was a situation of HETERALsexual men thinking that they would somehow enrich themselves and better the life of their family by this rape. It is bad enough to steal and murder, but to steal and murder in a way that the perpetrater gains ablsolutely nothing from it is absolutely worthless, and that is what God was warning against. The text is not talking about people who were struggling with who they were emotionally attracted to. Stealing and murder is bad To use Sodom and Gamorrah against what these people struggle with would be like taking the story of the levite and his contibine as a condemnation on heterosexuality.

[Dr. Shane]

Actually, that sounds a lot like modern-day male homosexuality. In most cases, male homosexuality is masculinity in crisis. They are not seeking to steal other men's lambs or children. They want other men's masculinity and subconsciously they believe by having sex with other men they will take on some of their characteristics. This is similar to the belief some cannibals have about eating their victims. Those that don't understand it think homosexuality is about sex. It isn't. Sex is only a means homosexuals try to use to achieve masculinity. Now this may not be true in all cases and I am sure it is not. There a re various reason why some men desire sex with other men. Yet, this is typical male homosexuality.

A good book is Crisis in Masculinity by Leanne, Payne. His book Broken Image is also a good one.

[Kevin H]

You are right Shane, I believe that there are those who are dealing with this issue who this is why they are dealing with this. Just because I understand the prooftexts to be taken out of context and misapplied does not mean that I do not believe that there are some issues and temptations that these people have that the rest of us don't have and sins they need to be aware of. I believe that there are those who can change. The issue is that there is not a one size fits all and a study of the proof texts closes up the traditional criticizism but also opens up new warnings.

I believe that the point you mentioned above is indeed one of these points. Thank you