Is something new happening in Heaven today?

[rab]

What is actually going on in Heaven now (as far as atonement/reconciliation) that wasnt happening before Christ died? Or maybe there is no fifference. The S S lessons this quarter seem to say that after the Cross Christ went into the Most Holy area of the sanctuary in Heaven to continue the atonement work. Didnt people who died before Christ's death on the cross need this kind of Heavenly work as much as people do now? I see 4 different catagories of people: Before the cross, those who knew about the true God, and those who didnt; and after the cross those who knew and those who didnt.

I understand fairly well the pointing foreward to the Lamb of God that the Jewish sacrificial system portrayed; and that everyone is judged by how they choose between what they know to be right/good and wrong/bad; and that their salvation has nothing to do with how much they know about the true God, because Christ's death can give the pagan eternal life as well as the most knowledgable Adventist Christian.

Please dont tell me that part of what Christ is doing is pleading our case to the Father, or acting as our go-between. That's a nice warm-fuzzy but it isnt real. The Father and the Holy Spirit love everyone the same as the Son does, so that cant be actually going on can it?

If I knew the answers to these questions I think the work that the Holy Spirit is trying to do in my life would be facilitated, and I need all the help I can get! Any ideas out there?

[Woody]

Whatever the answer is ... I would just trust that God is doing what is needed and will do what is needed in my Life. I guess it comes down to trust and faith ... the evidence of things not seen.

[rab]

Thanks for responding

Never heard of common and sanctified grace like that. Isnt the Holy Spirit working the same way with a pagan as He does with a Christian? May even be easier dealing with a pagan because he may not have so many hang-ups, and be more child-like. I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy so I'm always concerned with the details. Maybe not good. I need to trust more and question less? But I still think God wants us to dig out the details too, else He wouldnt have said anything about the atonement in the first place.

[Woody]

Quote:

so trust and faith are sometimes more important

that facts

Amen Amen ...

Do you realize what you have just said ???

Packed full of truth.

Very Important.

[John317]

Whatever the answer is ... I would just trust that God is doing what is needed and will do what is needed in my Life. I guess it comes down to trust and faith ... the evidence of things not seen.

The Lord has a great work to be done, and He will bequeath the most in the future life to those who do the most faithful, willing service in the present life. The Lord chooses His own agents, and each day under different circumstances He gives them a trial in His plan of operation. In each true-hearted endeavor to work out His plan, He chooses His agents not because they are perfect but because, through a connection with Him, they may gain perfection.

God will accept only those who are determined to aim high. He places every human agent under obligation to do his best. Moral perfection is required of all. Never should we lower the standard of righteousness in order to accommodate inherited or cultivated tendencies to wrong-doing. We need to understand that imperfection of character is sin. All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole, and every one who receives Christ as a personal Saviour is privileged to possess these attributes.

And those who would be workers together with God must strive for perfection of every organ of the body and quality of the mind. True education is the preparation of the physical, mental, and moral powers for the performance of every duty; it is the training of body, mind, and soul for divine service. This is the education that will endure unto eternal life.

Of every Christian the Lord requires growth in efficiency and capability in every line. Christ has paid us our wages, even His own blood and suffering, to secure our willing service. He came to our world to give us an example of how we should work, and what spirit we should bring into our labor. He desires us to study how we can best advance His work and glorify His name in the world, crowning with honor, with the greatest love and devotion, the Father who "so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

But Christ has given us no assurance that to attain perfection of character is an easy matter. A noble, all-round character is not inherited. It does not come to us by accident. A noble character is earned by individual effort through the merits and grace of Christ. God gives the talents, the powers of the mind; we form the character. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. Conflict after conflict must be waged against hereditary tendencies. We shall have to criticize ourselves closely, and allow not one unfavorable trait to remain uncorrected.

Let no one say, I cannot remedy my defects of character. If you come to this decision, you will certainly fail of obtaining everlasting life. The impossibility lies in your own will. If you will not, then you can not overcome. The real difficulty arises from the corruption of an unsanctified heart, and an unwillingness to submit to the control of God.

Many whom God has qualified to do excellent work accomplish very little, because they attempt little. Thousands pass through life as if they had no definite object for which to live, no standard to reach. Such will obtain a reward proportionate to their works.

Remember that you will never reach a higher standard than you yourself set. Then set your mark high, and step by step, even though it be by painful effort, by self-denial and sacrifice, ascend the whole length of the ladder of progress. Let nothing hinder you. Fate has not woven its meshes about any human being so firmly that he need remain helpless and in uncertainty. Opposing circumstances should create a firm determination to overcome them. The breaking down of one barrier will give greater ability and courage to go forward. Press with determination in the right direction, and circumstances will be your helpers, not your hindrances.

Be ambitious, for the Master's glory, to cultivate every grace of character. In every phase of your character building you are to please God. This you may do; for Enoch pleased Him though living in a degenerate age. And there are Enochs in this our day. COL 330-332

[rd151]

Well, as I understand it, Christ has been examining the lives of all men starting with the DEAD and THEN will open the books of the living. Whether he has finished with examining the lives of the dead yet is unknown. But millions have died since Adam and millions are living today. Thats a lot or people wouldn't you say? I just know, Christ will come for his own and REWARD those who have done faithful works. May you and I be in that number.amen

[Lineman]

What is actually going on in Heaven now (as far as atonement/reconciliation) that wasnt happening before Christ died? Or maybe there is no fifference. The S S lessons this quarter seem to say that after the Cross Christ went into the Most Holy area of the sanctuary in Heaven to continue the atonement work. Didnt people who died before Christ's death on the cross need this kind of Heavenly work as much as people do now? I see 4 different catagories of people: Before the cross, those who knew about the true God, and those who didnt; and after the cross those who knew and those who didnt.

I understand fairly well the pointing foreward to the Lamb of God that the Jewish sacrificial system portrayed; and that everyone is judged by how they choose between what they know to be right/good and wrong/bad; and that their salvation has nothing to do with how much they know about the true God, because Christ's death can give the pagan eternal life as well as the most knowledgable Adventist Christian.

Please dont tell me that part of what Christ is doing is pleading our case to the Father, or acting as our go-between. That's a nice warm-fuzzy but it isnt real. The Father and the Holy Spirit love everyone the same as the Son does, so that cant be actually going on can it?

If I knew the answers to these questions I think the work that the Holy Spirit is trying to do in my life would be facilitated, and I need all the help I can get! Any ideas out there?

You wrote, "Didnt people who died before Christ's death on the cross need this kind of Heavenly work as much as people do now?" Of course they did, just as all people do, but judgement for anyone could not start until Jesus actually died proving that Satan was lying about God being unfair and not really caring about His "kids". After the Cross judgement could begin, and as someone has stated already, it began with the dead and once that is done God will begin judging those who are living, so in short the answer to your question, "What is actually going on in Heaven now (as far as atonement/reconciliation) that wasnt happening before Christ died?" is the judgement of all people.

You also wrote, "Please dont tell me that part of what Christ is doing is pleading our case to the Father, or acting as our go-between. That's a nice warm-fuzzy but it isnt real. The Father and the Holy Spirit love everyone the same as the Son does, so that cant be actually going on can it?" I think that in order to understand this topic we need to define the word "pleading" as used in this subject. It is true that all three members of the Godhead love us and that one begging for the other to spare us is not necessary, but when you look at it from a different angle it takes on a totally different meaning.

One definition of "pleading" is: A statement in legal and logical form stating something on behalf of a party to a legal proceeding. This is exactly what is happening in heaven right now. Jesus is making a statement in legal and logical form on our behalf in a legal proceeding. He is not "begging" our case.

God the Father must destroy sin because it is in the process of destroying the whole universe. Jesus died so that even though we are now part of that "destructive force" we can be looked at as being on God's side thru the blood of Jesus. Basically I see our trust in Jesus as being a trust in what He is doing and in how the Father runs the whole universe. It's a trust in Their way of doing things.

In short, Jesus "pleading" our case is the same as Jesus stating to the Father (and the universe) that you and I agree with what They are all about (love).

Hope this makes sense.

Dan

P.S. Here is a little more. Pleading: The official set of papers that explain the facts of a particular case.

[Lineman]

Just found something very interesting related to the word "PLEADING".

"A “not guilty” plea will result in the case going to trial and a “guilty” plea will result in a waiver of a right to trial."

Notice that it doesn't say that a "guilty" plea will result in no trial, but only a waiver of the right to a trial. How should we as Christians understand this as it relates to our Judge in heaven? Do we, or do we not, go to trial if we plead guilty?

Just because we will stand before the Judge does that mean that we will have a "trial", or will Jesus "plead" our case without us going to trial?