Will only the Adventist remnant be in heaven?

[rd151]

I have been reading the new Daniel- Revelation commentary by Ellen White. It comes in 2 huge volumes, but very nice print and readable. Anyway sis White states that Sunday will become national law by the USA, with the approval of the Roman Papacy and that all who do not show allegiance in worship on this day will have the "mark of the Beast(Roman Papacy)" All Sabbath keepers will be hunted down and imprisoned or even killed.

Now I am a Sabbath keeper, but I must admit this is to much to believe. For one thing our government could care less about Sunday being a religious day or tracking down Sabbath keepers. The US government allows liquor to be sold and gambling on Sunday. So I hardly feel Sunday as a religious worship day would agree with them, do you?

Secondly, I would say if Rome is the beast of Rev 13, then the mark would be an allegiance to ALL Rome stands for and not just a particular day of the week. Nothing is actually stated in Rev 13 that the mark is a day anyway? This is a broad assumption. The mark seems more of a physical mark on the BODY(literally) or a symbolic picture of a mental acceptance by the individual.

My last point is, that there are MANY other Sabbath keeping groups in the world besides the SDA as a whole. There are of course the messianic groups, the church of God 7th day and the 7th day Baptists, which are few in England. But Sabbath keepers nevertheless. Are we to conclude these folks will be denied heaven because they are not SDA members? I certainly hope not

Well, those are my thoughts.Let me hear yours.thanks

[John317]

I have been reading the new Daniel- Revelation commentary by Ellen White. It comes in 2 huge volumes, but very nice print and readable.

Yes, I know the set. I'd like to get it myself.

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Anyway sis White states that Sunday will become national law by the USA, with the approval of the Roman Papacy and that all who do not show allegiance in worship on this day will have the "mark of the Beast(Roman Papacy)" All Sabbath keepers will be hunted down and imprisoned or even killed.

Now I am a Sabbath keeper, but I must admit this is to much to believe. For one thing our government could care less about Sunday being a religious day or tracking down Sabbath keepers. The US government allows liquor to be sold and gambling on Sunday.

1) During the 1880s, there were laws passed that resulted in some Seventh-day Adventists being jailed for working on their farms on Sunday.

2)

1888 Blair Amendment

The year 1888 is significant to Seventh-day Adventists in more than one way. Most are aware of the great Righteousness by Faith emphasis brought by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner at the 1888 General Conference session held in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What many do not realize is that simultaneous to the events at Minneapolis, a federal law was being prepared in Washington, D.C. to enforce Sunday observance -- a National Sunday Law. This bill was known as S. 2983 and was introduced by Senator Blair into the United States Senate. A.T. Jones was asked to travel to Washington to testify on behalf of the Seventh-day Adventist church against this bill.

Jones testified before the United States Senate Committee on Education and Labor on December 13, 1888 just a few short weeks after the Minneapolis conference. Events were truly coming to a head, both in the church and in the nation. The Seventh-day Baptists and other Sabbath-keeping groups had caved in to the pressure of the law by agreeing to an exemption for themselves. Jones however refused to compromise in the slightest. He testified that the law was against the Bible, not good for the country, and that Seventh-day Adventists would not settle for a compromise exemption for themselves. By his forceful and logical argument, he was able to turn the tide against the bill and it was not acted upon.

An organization was born out of that year's events, known today as the Lord's Day Alliance. This organization, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, exists solely to urge Sunday as the Sabbath. It advocates legislation to promote Sunday sacredness. Its leaders have met with Pope John Paul II and other religious and government leaders in their singular purpose of paying homage to Sunday. They along with many other organizations on the Religious Right, are actively working to unite church and state and to bring about the events that we have been told will happen. [Jones' testimony is fully covered in the book, The National Sunday Law. See footnote 5 below.]

See:http://www.t3asda.org/articles/Separation%20of%20Church%20and%20State.htm

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So I hardly feel Sunday as a religious worship day would agree with them, do you?

At this time, it certainly would not. But both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy predict that conditions will change dramatically. There will be severe national and international crises, which will cause the people of the United States as well as the government to think differently than they do now.

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Secondly, I would say if Rome is the beast of Rev 13, then the mark would be an allegiance to ALL Rome stands for and not just a particular day of the week. Nothing is actually stated in Rev 13 that the mark is a day anyway? This is a broad assumption. The mark seems more of a physical mark on the BODY(literally) or a symbolic picture of a mental acceptance by the individual.

The mark is a symbol of Rome's authority, and as such, it does represent allegiance to ALL that Rome stands for. Rome was definitely a major influence, in the setting up of Sunday as the counterfeit Sabbath. Until recently the Roman Catholic Church claimed to be the reason for the keeping of Sunday. Now the RCC-- like many Protestants-- says that the early church kept Sunday as far back as the first century.

In Rev. 14-16, notice that the beast powers enforce a law that compels the conscience, and it attempts to force all people to disobey God's commandments.

The idea that it is a mark on the body wouldn't make sense because anyone can force someone to accept a mark on the body. It's difficult to see how a physical mark alone would cause a person to be lost. It makes more Biblical sense for the mark to be something of a spiritual nature related to the worship of God. It would be in direct opposition to the commandments of God. Compare Daniel 3 where the three worthies were compelled to chose whether to keep the commandments of God and die or disobey the commandments and live.

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My last point is, that there are MANY other Sabbath keeping groups in the world besides the SDA as a whole. There are of course the messianic groups, the church of God 7th day and the 7th day Baptists, which are few in England. But Sabbath keepers nevertheless. Are we to conclude these folks will be denied heaven because they are not SDA members? I certainly hope not.

Seventh-day Adventists have never claimed that everyone saved in heaven will be Sabbath keepers. In fact, Ellen White has specifically denied this. Most people in heaven will probably be Sunday keepers but they will be people who either never heard of the Sabbath or never saw the issues clearly.

[rd151]

Well 1888 is a far cry from 2008, soon to be 09. You have admitted the USA is not interested in nationalizing Sunday as the official worship day in our time. So the point is really moot. Unless there seems an interest on our country's part then claiming it will happen is really wishful thinking.

If we were living in the time of Ellen White, then I would say that the likelihood would have been good.But we are not living in her time and the fact is a whole century has gone by since then

Once again the only way for our country to submit to Rome as the predicted beast power, would be for us to surrender our sovereignty to her.That also would be unlikely, since Rome is but a blip on the world map compared to larger nations. It seems more to me that it is not so much America bowing to Rome but individuals within the world itself paying homage to Rome. As you know, there are many nations now that have devoted Islamics within their countries and yet the countries do not promote Islam in the main. Europe and now England are very much Muslim.

Ellen White is not alone in her end time predictions of Rev 13 and 14. Many commentators have written extensively on the subject. I believe when the actual events do transpire someday, Christians will know for sure. Until then we are merely speculating.

[Morning Glory]

John317,

Thank you for your post, here. I've been mulling this question over, but hadn't come up with a good way to respond.

My thoughts are along the lines of: God gave His chosen servants messages all through the ages regarding future events whose fullfillment seeed inplausable at the time. We have seen in the last few months how quickly the economic climate world wide has tanked......predicted in Rev. While it remains to be seen if these events are actully what was foretold, or "only" a forerunner of that event, it seemed very unlikely that such a thing would EVER come to pass only a short time ago!! (At least by those of us who are not in or well read in the financial field.)

World events can change on a dime. We should be aware that since the Bible predicted that the Day of Worship will be a major player just prior to the Lord's return to Earth and that this same information was revealed to Mrs White, we would do well to NOT blow it off. I am interested in the historical evidence you presented and the ongoing, tho not that public, persistence of some to revive that legislation. Those are issues that we who profess to be a part of God's remnant should bear in mind.

In my opinion, our job, if you will, is to continue in Bible study and prayer to keep ourselves close to God. He will give us discernment in regards to spiritual error, and the strength, if you will, to stay true to His truth. I do not think that it is helpful to be afraid of world events as they unfold or to dwell too much on whether or not a Sunday law will be passed as it is to maintain our connection and reliance upon our God.

It IS good, however, to be aware of events as they unfold and can be related to prophecy, and to be aware of the "sign-posts" along the way as a former member here used to admonish us.

Morning Glory

[Robert]

Most people in heaven will probably be Sunday keepers but they will be people who either never heard of the Sabbath or never saw the issues clearly.

I love how SDA, arms proudly folded across their chests, say what you have said. And likewise, I guess you'll be in heaven because of your ignorance that self-love is sin!

[Kevin H]

First of all, prophet's eschatology tend to first be focused on how things could have been in their day, but with principles that can be applied over history. In studying the Bible you can see a trend of the mark of the beast and how each generation either could have been the last generation or prepared for the next generation to be the last generation. For further study see "Destroyed for Lack of Knowlege" in Prophets and Kings and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" in the commentary. Sadly we are ignorant of these important writings and we take the traditional Adventist views but approach it from a dispensationalist mindset.

In Revelation the issue was bowing to the image to the emperor. The mark in the forehead meant to truely worship. The mark in the right hand meant to pass by the emperor's immage and realize that your sandel needed adjusting.

What the mark of the beast is has always been enforced religion.

Also Rome IS NOT THE BEAST IN IT'S ENTERTY. The beast is ANY ORGANIZED GROUP that replaces Jesus in our life. The 7 heads are Bablyon, Medio-Persia, Greece, Rome, Papal Supremicy / Holy Roman Empire, The deadly wound (a short period of independent countries, no world empire), and the deadly wound healing a world empire that unlike the others truely encompasses the whole world and according to Revelation 18 the 7th head is not a church state like the 5th head was discribed as, but economic cooperation and the merchants of the earth (or corporations). Dealing with the delacate economic system we will all have to pull together and they won't be very tolerant of a little religious sect who does not mean to cause trouble but who does not follow the system. Mrs. White said that Sunday is not yet the mark of the beast, but it will be an issue to bring about the last test.

We have two ditches that are both deadly: The one is to say that there is nothing to Sunday laws and the criticisms we have had towards the papacy. The second is to say that eschatology will end exactly as it could have ended back in the 1800s and that the 5th head is the Whole beast and look for a return to the 5th head while the 7th head sneeks up on us and we end up joining with the merchants.