Does this sound like grounds for national Sunday law?

[guibox]

As of late, I have been somewhat agnostic towards our eschaetological views on the end times 'Sabbath vs Sunday' scenario and that Revelation 13 could accurately be fulfilled by a national Sunday law that will require obedience or death. There are many reasons for it and I believe many radical things that need to come together to make something like this happen (which seem far fetched).

Of course many will say 'it will happen because EGW said so', but frankly, I just don't see it. Not in our lifetime.

As I sat and listened to Obama's inauguration speech live, I was struck by this passage. I'm glad that Stan posted the text of it so we can analyze it. I just don't see a mostly secular nation like America being the spear header for the SDA scenario of a national Sunday law.

What say you about this part of the speech?

Quote:

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. And so to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman, and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and that we are ready to lead once more.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint. - President Barack Obama

[Neil D]

What would happen if this president appeared to fail?

IOWs, it was all the president could do to keep the status quo and not motivate the people to do thier part of rebuilding america? What would happen if the people said, "It's not my job. It's someone else's who is poorer, lower class." What if it takes EVERYONE'S commitment and dedication .....and no one was willing to do this? What if it took everyone working to loose 10-20% of thier wages? Do you think that America collectively would do this?

Assume that it did take everything the President did to keep the current status quo, and not prevent it from getting worse? What if the people decided that they wanted more, but more sacrifice and dedication was needed? Would the next president that was elected be as fair, as commpassionate as the current one?

[guibox]

HEY GUIBOX

AGAIN I don't know what age you are??? I ASKED in a past

post I am sure... I WILL again tell you my age I am 62 and

will be 63 in FEB.... BUT lets move on the the topic

if people are willing to keep giving up there freedoms

to the government for security... then if the government

says we have to do something like close the all business

on a certain day (like sunday) the majority of people would

do it. then get the POPE involved saying the we the people

need to get back to GOD by going to church on sunday people

will do it.....you keep saying that it will never happen in

your life time???? well Sept 11 or 9/11 happened in one

day and look at all the changes that happen after that event....

and people 8 plus years later have accepted these changes

the same thing will happen with the sunday law

dgrimm60

dgrimm...what happened from 9/11? Life went back to normal mere months after the fact and the worst thing that happened to the majority of the public for removal of freedom was for airlines to ban products over 60 ml on the planes.

The Indonesian tsunami killed 250 000 people. A quarter of a million people lost their lives all at once! If something that brutal didn't cause people to look to God and think His wrath was falling on the world, not much else in this day and age will. Yet for the most part, many stood horrified until the next TV program came on. Many looked at that and said, 'Man that's sad and then went along their way eating drinking and being merry. Life has gone on. Disaster after disaster after disaster...life has gone on. Freedoms remain intact. People are not screaming for religous legislation and desire to have their freedoms removed.

If anything, the US as a secular society has done the exact opposite and desires freedom more than anything. They are not going to be clamoring for national Sunday law.

For the record I am 37. I remember the nuclear scares of the 80s as many will remember it when it even was worse in the 60s with Russia...where were the Sunday laws then? Where were the freedoms being willing to be left behind? Where were the cries for legislation to appease God's anger with the world?

What makes you think that in Obama's presidency or in the US government that something as petty as a Sunday law is going to come to pass?

Better yet...FOR WHAT PURPOSE???

[phkrause]

There are many sunday laws on the books, of almost if not every state in the US. They can be voted in at any moment. Things can change very quickly. All things will happen for the purpose that God wants and in there time. That's why it behooves us to always be right with God and than all these things have no hold on us. I have no problem accepting that this country I live in will have a sunday law just as EGW has written. Do I think this will take place in my life time? I have no idea. But just as I know that Jesus will return per the Bible, the Prophets, the Apostles and the Pastors of today. This has been preached for some 2000 years now and still has not happen but will happen none the less. That is how I look at the sunday laws.

pk

[guibox]

There are many sunday laws on the books, of almost if not every state in the US. They can be voted in at any moment.

[phkrause]

Absolutely Dgrimm60, we have not gone back to normal.

pk

[John317]

As of late, I have been somewhat agnostic towards our eschaetological views on the end times 'Sabbath vs Sunday' scenario and that Revelation 13 could accurately be fulfilled by a national Sunday law that will require obedience or death. There are many reasons for it and I believe many radical things that need to come together to make something like this happen (which seem far fetched).

Some people may not be able to see how these things will happen but they will. If we have faith in God's prophets, we won't have any doubt. It doesn't mean we won't wonder how things will develop, but we will trust God's word that those things will happen.

It seems obvious from studying Daniel and Revelation in regard to end-time events that there's going to be a number of extreme crisis which will cause governments and peoples to change their thinking. Both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy show that God will allow Satan and the fallen angels to take an active part in those last events. The war between God and Satan will become far more intense and out in the open than it is now.

[guibox]

Some people may not be able to see how these things will happen but they will. If we have faith in God's prophets, we won't have any doubt. It doesn't mean we won't wonder how things will develop, but we will trust God's word that those things will happen.

It seems obvious from studying Daniel and Revelation in regard to end-time events that there's going to be a number of extreme crisis which will cause governments and peoples to change their thinking. Both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy show that God will allow Satan and the fallen angels to take an active part in those last events. The war between God and Satan will become far more intense and out in the open than it is now.

I believe that the events of Revelation 13 are going to unfold. What I have my doubts on is that they will take the form of a national Sunday law spearheaded by the Pope and the US.

The platform of Obama's speech (which has been the platform of every president before him and reflects the government position), the secularism and pluralism of the US and the complete lack of religous commitment in the government levels (to anything religous, nevermind Christianity) tell me that such a thing could not come to pass in this lifetime.

The lack of 'cause/effect' in the last 40 years as far as a religous reaction to catastrophe, even on a small scale is further proof of it.

[John317]

I understand what you are saying. I can see your viewpoint. But do you read books that have a different view? For instance, the books on end-times by Marvin Moore, Clifford Goldstein, Steve Wohlberg, and Mark Finley?

There's a good book by Herbert Douglass called Dramatic Prophecies of Ellen White, Stories of World Events Divinely Foretold.

I read books with all kinds of eschatological viewpoints, including those pushing the Rapture concept.

[guibox]

I understand what you are saying. I can see your viewpoint. But do you read books that have a different view? For instance, the books on end-times by Marvin Moore, Clifford Goldstein, Steve Wohlberg, and Mark Finley?

[Taylor]

Originally Posted By: John317

Some people may not be able to see how these things will happen but they will. If we have faith in God's prophets, we won't have any doubt. It doesn't mean we won't wonder how things will develop, but we will trust God's word that those things will happen.

It seems obvious from studying Daniel and Revelation in regard to end-time events that there's going to be a number of extreme crisis which will cause governments and peoples to change their thinking. Both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy show that God will allow Satan and the fallen angels to take an active part in those last events. The war between God and Satan will become far more intense and out in the open than it is now.

I believe that the events of Revelation 13 are going to unfold. What I have my doubts on is that they will take the form of a national Sunday law spearheaded by the Pope and the US.

The platform of Obama's speech (which has been the platform of every president before him and reflects the government position), the secularism and pluralism of the US and the complete lack of religous commitment in the government levels (to anything religous, nevermind Christianity) tell me that such a thing could not come to pass in this lifetime.

The lack of 'cause/effect' in the last 40 years as far as a religous reaction to catastrophe, even on a small scale is further proof of it.

All it takes is a national disaster to seriously undermine our freedoms. Even with a great president, or a secular mind-set, or a non-interest in enforcing any religion..all it would take is a complete economic collapse (completely i.e. a deep depression) combined with serious terrorism to bring even many "athiests" to their knees, which initially sounds great but could be very problematic if it comes from the top down and becomes "law" to "get religous" as "only

God has the solution" and we need to "legislate morality" etc.

[guibox]

All it takes is a national disaster to seriously undermine our freedoms. Even with a great president, or a secular mind-set, or a non-interest in enforcing any religion..all it would take is a complete economic collapse (completely i.e. a deep depression) combined with serious terrorism to bring even many "athiests" to their knees, which initially sounds great but could be very problematic if it comes from the top down and becomes "law" to "get religous" as "only

God has the solution" and we need to "legislate morality" etc.

You mean like the terrorist incidents in Indonesia coupled along with one disaster that killed a 1/4 a 1,000,000 people in one blow? Where are the Philipino laws sanctioning religous laws? That's pretty much as bad as it has ever gotten in the world's history for one area, isn't it? Where are the cries of Christian Indonesians to 'get back to God' and legislate morality?

It obviously takes more than even the worst natural disaster we've every seen for a massive paradigm shift in people's thinking. Good night, the earthquakes and tsunamis that have occurred the last 6 years have probably wiped out over half a million people!

"Old news...lets get on with the latest tabloids" is the mentality.

Did we see this 'lets get back to morality' during the Great Depression, when religous values were way more prominent and secularism and atheism were the exception and not the norm?

Nope.

Nothing short of massive global destruction will usher in something akin to a world wide Sunday law that atheists, Muslims and Hindus (you know, about 2/3 of the world's population that don't give a hoot about the Christian God, never mind a day of worship) would subscribe to.

Sorry. It just isn't feasible even in the most dire of circumstances as we know it or have known it.

So we should stop looking for 'Sunday law' around each corner like we've been trained to do for the last 30 years like the world is going to end tomorrow.

[Taylor]

The Sunday laws will come but yes, I agree, it doesn't need to be our primary focus. Our primary focus isn't to be paranoia but reaching the lost with the gospel, and loving people as Jesus loves them.

On the national disaster, however, I say that for America and the world, all it takes is a massive problem in America to get America's attention and the world's attention. All it taakes is our complete collapse to affect most other countries. All it takes is for America, the super power, to become completely instable to affect the world where riots, not seen before would errupt around the world in support of the "problems" in the USA or in "cheering the problems" or in "being angry we can't fix both ours and their problems" etc. I still think it wouldn't take much. We are sitting on a powder keg of anger between muslims and christians, muslims and jews, not to mention all the horrible ethnic cleasings, terrorism and loss of innoncent life, economic problems, starvation, and natural disasters. All it would take is multiple huge earthquakes with millions of lost lives to hit all at once in various countries, or millions bombed to oblivion by terrorism to bring America and the world to it's knees. BUT our focus should be on helping our fellow men, on making the world as nice of a place as we can possibly make it and inviting them into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. The good news we have to share is incredible!

(And no the world isn't getting better, it is screaming to an end point. As to when that end point will occure, we can't know for sure, but we can know that Jesus IS coming back and that His Word can be completely Trusted. )

[there buster]

Quote:

Would the next president that was elected be as fair, as commpassionate as the current one?

Behold, a prophet. He can declare a verdict on a whole presidency after 36 hours!

Truly, truly, the time of Obamessiah is here. Let us rejoice!