Ellen White-plagiarism proves she is a TRUE prophet??

[John317]

What IF the 'woman' found in Rev. 2:18-28 is Ellen White? Would not that be an important thing to know? Since the writings to the 7 churches are actually 7 messeges--or chapters--to the NEW Kingdom of Heaven, which is the same as the one found in Dan. 2, and got their start in 1843 (Dan. 8:14) and is the last Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 21:43) and meets all of the points found in the 10 Virgin prophecy (Matt. 25), then would it not be important to know that her teaching is now leading people away from the real truth?

Given the fact that you believe the Apostle Paul was a liar, I would be very interested in understanding exactly how Ellen White's teaching "is now leading people away from the real truth." What-- for you-- is the real truth?

Do you or others teach this at the Calimesa Seventh-day Adventist church?

Quote:

The facts (yes real facts) show that EGW's visions could not have come from God the Creator--could they? Each person should do their own research.

What are the real facts you refer to? No, I do not agree that "the real facts show that Ellen White's visions could not have come from God."

What research have you done personally that shows your claim to be true?

Quote:

After all, why isn't the testimony of Jesus which has been preserved for us by His eyewitnesses (John 14:26) be good enough for everyone? Why does anyone need anything more from anyone AFTER Jesus left--like Mohamad, Saul/Paul, the writer of Hebrews, Joseph Smith, Nostradamas, and even EGW? Can't we all just be the people found in Rev. 12:17?

Your last paragraph shows that you have little understanding of the role of the gift of prophecy, especially since you count the Apostle Paul in the same group along with Joseph Smith and Nostradamas and Mohammad. Given that, I am not surprised you seek to discredit Ellen G. White.

[Derrell M]

It seems to all be in the interpretation, and in the knowledge of history. Blind faith is necessary in any case. Paul's writings, as well as all of the others, were chosen as canon scripture by the Council of Nicea which was put together by none other than the Emperor Constantine. Yes, the same one who changed Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. We owe our bible to him. Do you trust the decisions of a group of Bishops convened by Constantine? Then yes, you have the Bible. EGW? Same thing. There has never been a shred of irrefutable proof that she is a prophet, only blind faith. Is there anything wrong with blind faith? Perhaps not.

[John317]

It seems to all be in the interpretation, and in the knowledge of history. Blind faith is necessary in any case. Paul's writings, as well as all of the others, were chosen as canon scripture by the Council of Nicea which was put together by none other than the Emperor Constantine. Yes, the same one who changed Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. We owe our bible to him. Do you trust the decisions of a group of Bishops convened by Constantine? Then yes, you have the Bible. EGW? Same thing. There has never been a shred of irrefutable proof that she is a prophet, only blind faith. Is there anything wrong with blind faith? Perhaps not.

Friend, you have enough knowledge to make it seem on the surface that you are right, but you should keep studying and reading about how our Bible's came to us. You seem, unfortunately, to have accepted the explanation of the Roman Catholic Church.

As for Ellen White, she is not just someone in a book to me. As a kid growing up I knew her grand-daughters who had lived with Ellen White and talked with people who knew Mrs. White personally. My own maternal grandfather knew her and wrote about her in his autobiography. She stayed at my grandmother's house in Portland, Oregon on two trips she made there in the 1880s. Plus I've read most of her books over the last 40 years and go often to the Ellen White Estate and do my own research, examining the manuscripts in her own handwriting.

Keep reading, friend, and keep an open mind.

[John317]

Her plagiarism demonstrates that there are many 'authorities of truth'. I appreciate that she used other sources. I find no fault in that. God obviously approved of it.

Real, genuine truth cannot be owned or copyrighted by anyone.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Dr Rich your question isn t consistent. Yes, the testimony of Jesus Christ is central, only there are so many false interpretations. God knew that the protestant revolution would not last forever and preserved his valuable truths by using a simple lady to prepare us for the enddays. I ve recently red some of her works, and even though they are very elementary, they are truths. She laid the foundation of a movement that will soon conquer the world and introduce the calamities of the endtimes.

I ve been thinking, in the end all beings except satan will acknowledge that God is love and righteous. This means that every follower of satan somewhere deep inside has some kind of integrity left. I can t understand why heavenly beings can be so stupid that they serve somebody who only cares about himself and drags 1third of the angels into hell. I wish some fallen beings would have the integrity to rebel against satan...

[djconklin]

>I now have 85 authors that I have compared with each other.

I now have over 95, almost 100 authors. Trying to get an even 100. I've also been looking at chapter 58 on the raising of Lazarus.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Somehow i am not able to post a new post. Have things changed?Anyway since i cannot post my question in the Theology department i will ask a follow-up question in relation to this topic...

Many pastors take the stance of Ellen White that at the second coming of Christ, if we have still not overcome our sins we will not be taken up to heaven.

Redwood suggests that we become changed at his second coming so we lose our sinfull nature.

Now i was thinking, Jesus took upon him the sins of all the world. He became sin for us but he kept his sinless nature. We on the other hand lose our sins but we keep our sinful nature if we believe in Christ. Then isn t it reasonable to assume that at Christ his second coming God doesn t expect us to be perfect?

[BobRyan]

Actually the problem is more difficult than you have stated.

At the close of probation - the saints must have already reached the point of not sinning because as Rev 15 points out - it is at that point that Christ's atoning work in the sanctuary ends. No more forgiveness of sins from the moment of the close of probation (and thus the start of the 7 last plagues) until the time of the 2nd coming - no matter how long a time that is!

Even more interesting is the fact that the only way to survive that period is to be sealed prior to the close of probation (as we see in Rev 7) and that Ellen White teaches that to obtain that sealing we must be both settled into the truth so as not to be moved AND we must obtain a "purity of heart" a "Christlike character" so that we are recipients of the Latter Rain and are sealed.

Even more interesting is the fact that she stated that "not one in 20" even in HER day - whose names where on the books as Seventh-day Adventists -- were in fact saved. How much worse that situation is today can only be imagined!

But only 5% getting through - is a difficult reality all on its own!

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Real, genuine truth cannot be owned or copyrighted by anyone.

1. Because God is the author not man.

2. We see that in triplicate all through the NT as author after author quotes the OT without giving credit.

in Christ,

Bob

[Stan]

Quote:

ven more interesting is the fact that she stated that "not one in 20" even in HER day - whose names where on the books as Seventh-day Adventists -- were in fact saved.

That is an urban legend, often used by ministries to do fund raising, what she did say was not 1 in 20 Adventists fully understood the plan of Salvation, or words very similar to that.

[Woody]

Quote:

"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon." {ChS 41.2}

[Twilight]

Actually the problem is more difficult than you have stated.

At the close of probation - the saints must have already reached the point of not sinning because as Rev 15 points out - it is at that point that Christ's atoning work in the sanctuary ends. No more forgiveness of sins from the moment of the close of probation (and thus the start of the 7 last plagues) until the time of the 2nd coming - no matter how long a time that is!

Even more interesting is the fact that the only way to survive that period is to be sealed prior to the close of probation (as we see in Rev 7) and that Ellen White teaches that to obtain that sealing we must be both settled into the truth so as not to be moved AND we must obtain a "purity of heart" a "Christlike character" so that we are recipients of the Latter Rain and are sealed.

Even more interesting is the fact that she stated that "not one in 20" even in HER day - whose names where on the books as Seventh-day Adventists -- were in fact saved. How much worse that situation is today can only be imagined!

But only 5% getting through - is a difficult reality all on its own!

in Christ,

Bob

It is a difficult reality, but that means we should search our own individual hearts.

And ask God to prepare us for that time, if indeed we are to go through it.

Mark

[Guest truthseeker007]

I am going to tell you why i think God considers Laodicea blind and miserable. The SDA church has accumulated many prophetic truths, but we sometimes miss the point. The church uses examples, for instance the stressing on food, to put people in a box. Many pastors portray God as a God who is not willing to save willing souls. Dr Ford rightly pointed out that legalism and law keeping is a result of being saved and doing what God wants us to do. Unfortunately many pastors bring it like this "you will keep all God his commandments perfectly or else you will go to hell" and "if you don t listen to what the church tells you you will be lost, for outside the church is no salvation". The church is miserable and naked because they don t know that they have integrated some of the Roman Catholic principles, that the church is everything and the individual is just one brick in a large building.

If the church wants to see and receive clothes, it has to stop scare people and only teach principles. For instance, i eat a lot of meat, but i also train many hours every day, according to some pastors i go to hell. But i know for sure that i handle my physical capital better than many pastors do. You know, the church tries to create obedient machines, but God wants us to be individuals who each on our own manner get the best out of ourselves for the glory of God. The church should teach principles as guide lines instead of additional law by which we should become perfect. What is good for me, doesn t have to be good for anyone else. Who is the church to decide what lives inside my heart?only God knows what is inside my heart, and i believe that many people who think they are safe and fine are self-delusional, they are in fact programmed to do the right stuff, but the heart hasn t changed.

Why i come up with this now? Finally after many years of misery i am breaking free. I rejected the devil his offer of wealth and thought i was gonna die, didn t care about anything anymore. God wanted to help me, but he could not help me. You know why? Because i got the wrong picture of God his character. God is not a legalist demanding perfection. God wants us to develop our characters according to our hearts individually. When this happens we don t even have to think about the law very much, because it will become a habit to keep the law, not a legalistic requirement to enter heaven. You know why the devil invents other Gods and portrays God character as evil?Because he knows that as long as we believe in other Gods or that God is evil he knows God cannot help us. In this way, ironically, the church that is supposed to counterfeit the work of the devil is actually itself involved in the work of the devil by portraying the character of God in the wrong way...