The Joys of Adventism

[Tom Wetmore]

Being right at the expense of relationships is one thing that distinguishes it from being righteous.

I have had good Adventists stumble on the question of which is more important to God, His law or people.

[John317]

I suppose we could say that what happened in Eden proves clearly that people are much more important to God than His commandments.

Or does it?

Actually the answer to your question is that there is no conflict. His law is most important because without it there would be chaos and death.

Yet God loves human beings so much that He was willing to come here and die in order to uphold His law and His government while simultaneously saving everyone who believes in Christ. So it's really not a question of God's law or people but rather God's law and people.

In his life on this earth, the Creator showed that saving and loving people did not necessitate disobedience to God's law. Both, in fact, when truly understood, go hand in hand.

I think that Satan, without a doubt, would like us to believe that there is a genuine conflict between these two. But God proved that no such conflict exists. God can indeed be just and the justifier of all who have faith in Christ Jesus. Rom. 3: 25, 26.

[Tom Wetmore]

For me, considering forgiveness changes that conclusion entirely. That means to me that people are more important.

[John317]

There is no question that God would have us personally forgive others for everything, even if they don't ask for it. (That doesn't meant the state is to forgive in the same way, of course.)

But the fact that most of the people born in this life will be lost shows that God is not throwing away his law so that everyone can be saved. It shows that God's law is still more important than individual lives. What's most important is the safety and harmony of God's universe. If a person rejects God's plan for the universe-- perfect loyalty to God and His law of love, i.e. His government-- they will be lost.

If God simply wanted everyone to be saved at any cost, he could have set aside His law and forgiven everyone without the death of Christ. But that would have created chaos and immortalized selfishness and strife in the universe.

[Neil D]

[sorry, started to quote john...forgot that I am NOT to quote him...]

Hmmmmm.....Here we have a delemma...God created His law to be obeyed but He died to save people from the effects of the law...Or did God want relationships with His creation such that when they fell, He not only died to help them understand that He loved them but that His love was reflected by the values that He gave them, the 10 Commandments.

Which sounds more healthy? to emphasis the 10 Commandments or to emphasis a relationship...?

[Neil D]

I hate to state the obvious, as it is NOT an origional thought.....But...

some see thier relationship with God as nothing more than law....

and this has ramifications upon the personal life in many subtle ways...

[Kountzer]

If you are in right relationship with your neighbor you won't lie to them/about them, won't steal from them, nor kill them, etc., etc.

IOWs the 10 commandemtns are all about maintaining right relationships.

DB

[Lineman]

A few posts back we were talking about "truth vs clarity" and "clarity vs accuracy". In another thread the question was asked why God "repented" of His actions.

Tom asked the question if the quest for accuracy and being right might bring joy. God's actions of destroying people with a flood was "accurate", but I am sure it did not bring joy to Him, so IMHO truth & accuracy do not always bring joy.

---------------

Neil asked which sounds more healthy, the commandments or relationship. As was stated already, the commandments are all about what our relationships should be like (as if it was not obvious). It is all based on love, which is a relationship.

[True-believer]

The Joys of Adventism

the first half of this year--2009--in the adventist church has been most joyous and I have loved every moment of it.

But...

the pressures from the outside, from family, it has been too much, feels like they are draining the joy out of me...

I should still be in the adventist church, i want to be there still,

thats it... i need to just forget the pressures of my family, and not let that bother me... and just keep on with being in the adventist church--despite what family do to me...

despite if my parents disown me----i want to follow the truth

I know for a fact that Jesus wants me in the Adventist Church, i love it so much there... its where i have found the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the Bible.

[phkrause]

Adventist church or not, Jesus says we are to leave all behind and put him first.

pk

[True-believer]

I need to get that joy back in my life...

For the last one month, I have been feeling so guilty, because I know the truth, and the truth has set me free, but, I haven't been keeping the Sabbath faithfully unto God.

I haven't been keeping the 7th day as a special day to keep holy and to set it apart and sanctified.

The Holy Spirit has been convicting me and convicting me, and I just know that I need to get that joy back in my life.

Instead of putting family first and family functions first, I need to start putting God first especially that one special day each week with no work at all, only me and Jesus and fellow believers.

[olger]

The Sabbath is part of the joy experience. Psalm 16:11 tells us that in God's presence there is fullness of joy.

og

[whbae]

How do you keep the Sabbath truthfully, joyfully, and pleasant?

Today, the minister in our church gave a sermon in how to keep the Sabbath. He said do not concentrate on "don'ts" but be creative and plan on having "dos". I grew up in the culture with "don'ts" on the Sabbath. My brain goes blank when it comes to make "dos" on the Sabbath. If I want to make a list of "dos" I must consider "don'ts" so as not to violate the Sabbath, so it becomes a cycle rather than a solution.

Any suggestions?

Won

[phkrause]

Won if the don'ts don't bring you down than just hang on to them. But if your Sabbath experience is bringing you down because of the don'ts than by all means look to see if you can find some do's that will be good! Just a thought.

pk

[olger]

We look forward to it as a day of fellowship. We all think that food tastes better on the sabbath.

[Tom Wetmore]

Indeed! I am more convinced than ever that the meaning intent, and purpose of Sabbath is all about one anothering - fellowship, showing care and interest for others, loving one another. It is a day to simply set aside self-serving and self interests. It is a day above all others to celebrate that we are not alone and to understand most perfectly that one's self is not the center of the universe.

Make Sabbath a verb and start Sabbathing others. Jesus did. Find in the gospels the 7 Sabbath miracles of healing.

This is true worship of God. Read Isaiah 58.

Is this the lost message that holds the key to Sabbath as the sign of God's people in the end? Read Matthew 24 and John 17.

Keepers of this true spirit of the Sabbath are God's children and the remnant of Revelation following the Lamb wherever he goes.

[Beryl]

How to keep the Sabbath? One of the best ways that I know is to plan ahead. Have the meals already prepared as much as possible. Plan some time out of doors -- somewhere where you can enjoy a walk by a river, or amongst God's nature somewhere. If you can take a friend with you, it will be all the more joyful.

If it is cold and rainy, then there would be nothing better than a good book. Try to have at least one in your possession that you either have not read before, or it is one which would stand many readings.

Don't forget to spend some time with the Person Who celebrated the first Sabbath on earth! Obtain a good "easy to read" version of the Bible. Start with Genesis, and keep reading. There will be some "boring bits" -- read them, too. They will help you understand just why God loves His people just so much that He still puts up with us!!

And, of course, you can always spend some Sabbath hours visiting Club Adventist! If you know someone who might be lonely (Adventist or non-Adventist), why not pay them a visit and cheer them up. I often spend some Sabbath time with a friend who is not an Adventist. She has a number of problems in her life, and it is good to know that by the time we have chatted together, and I have taken her dog for a long walk, and we have chatted a bit more and she is much happier, I can return home knowing that I have made her a happier person.

Ask God what He wants you to do. In Isaiah 58 we have an interesting look at what God looks for in our worship experience. In the first 5 verses He tells them what He is NOT looking for in their worship, and then from Verse 6 through to the end you will find what He is REALLY looking for from His earthly children.

God bless,

Beryl

[Ellen]

One way to get started enjoying Sabbaths is having a Sabbath project that you look forward to and can engrosse yourself in. It would depend on what talents and personality you have what that project could be.

If you are scientific minded you could pursue a science theme, or physical type, a mountain climb or rowing into nature etc. If you are artistic you could paint/draw some upllifting masterpiece.

If you are a linguist you could writeout bible stories in modern expressions.

This may be a juvenile suggestion but we start our walk with the Lord as babies and mature as we grow.

[oldsailor29]

A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, "I and Thou."

(wondering if anyone else has read "I and Thou.")

[Derrell M]

Yup, it all tastes like haystacks on Sabbath. Mmmmmm!

[olger]

Bring on the grub ~

In in 5-days I mean..