The Law of God is Spiritual...

[True-believer]

God’s Spiritual Law kept in the spirit and not in the flesh…

Colossians 2:14

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

1) What was the handwriting of ordinances that was against us?

Deuteronomy 31:9

And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deuteronomy 31:19

Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it to the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26

And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord, saying, “Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”

Now, what was the handwriting of ordinances that was against them?

It was the Law of Moses written in a book and placed in the side of the Ark of the Covenant—and now it is on the cross of Jesus Christ, for He has set us free from that law of bondage so we can serve Him more effectively.

Now, the Law of the Lord—His Law of Love which is not grievous…

2) What is the Law of the Lord?

Exodus 32:18

And God gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

3) What is this Law written on stone by God’s finger?

Exodus 20:1-17—the Ten Commandments.

4) Where is God’s Law placed?

Deuteronomy 10:2 & 5

And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which Moses broke, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which He had made; and there they are, as the Lord commanded me.

In John 14:15 Jesus says,

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Jesus was in the very beginning of this world, all through the Old Testament and as we as the New Testament.

Genesis 1:1a

In the beginning God…

Genesis 1:2b

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14a

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us…

The three in one: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, all three were present since the beginning and through the generations.

The Law of the Lord, the Ten Commandments is:

a) Truth = Psalm 119:142

Light = Proverbs 6:23

c) Righteousness = Psalm 119:172

d) Points out sin = Romans 7:7 & 3:20

e) Is not grievous = 1 John 5:3

f) The Royal Law = James 2:8

g) Judges all men = James 2:10-12

h) Is Spiritual = Romans 7:14

i) Is Perfect = Psalm 19:7

j) Placed inside the Ark = Deuteronomy 10:2 & 5

k) Written by God (Jesus) on stone = Exodus 31:18 & 32:16

l) The Law of the Lord = Isaiah 5:24

m) The Law is Just, Holy and Good = Romans 7:12

n) Is a delight = Romans 7:22 & Psalm 1:2

[BobRyan]

Col 2 says that our "certificate of debt" was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14 NASB

So that is the "speeding ticket" not the "65 MPH law"

This is the heart of what is called "substitutionary atoning sacrifice" -- it is our debt paid (as demanded by God's Law -- and done to uphold the Law of God) so that we might be forgiven and yet the Law of God remain as authorotative, fully upheld in all it's requirements.

As Paul argues in Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law of God!"

In 1 Cor 7:19 Paul goes so far as to make the point "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

In 1Cor 6 Paul condemns the church at Corinth for being in rebellion against the Law of God - on certain points and then he says "be not deceived.." after which he lists acts of actually breaking God's Law and says that "such" will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

In James chapter 2 - James argues that we will be judged by that law and we should live and act as those who are aware of that fact.

In Eph 6:1-2 Paul argues for the 5th commandment and for "really" keeping it with the point added "this is the first commandment" (in that list of ten written on stone) "with a promise".

Paul argues for "real obedience" in 1Cor 6 -- not "mental obedience while continuing in rebellion" - as I am sure we all agree.

In Matt 7 Christ deals with the topic of "obedient in claim" while "rebellious in life" by saying "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven - but rather he who DOES the will of My Father"

Which as we all know was a contrast between the "walk" and the "talk". 1 John 2 makes the same point "the one who SAYS He knows Christ" should also "Walk as He Walked" or else the claim to know Christ is proven to be a false one -- (to use John's argument in that chapter).

You see that same thing yet again in Rom 2:6-13.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

This is the heart of what is called "substitutionary atoning sacrifice" -- it is our debt paid (as demanded by God's Law -- and done to uphold the Law of God) so that we might be forgiven and yet the Law of God remain as authorotative, fully upheld in all it's requirements.

[Neil D]

Something tells me that this thread will progress to be rather long winded as well.....

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Rob,

thought I'd stop by, say hi and explain what I know from the Bible and SOP to be truth. It will not be in harmony with what you posted. I hope all is well with you, I mean that.

Quote:

Likewise, at the incarnation, God took the corporate life of the human race to which we belong and which needs to be redeemed, and, in the womb of Mary, God united the human race and the divine life of Christ so, when Christ was born into this world, he was both God and man. The human aspect of Christ was really the corporate life of the human race whom he came to redeem. That is why Jesus is called the second or last Adam (mankind) [1 Corinthians 15:45].

That statement is based on mistaken theory.

Let's look at some Biblical facts in context. (This may not be the best translation but it points out clearly that the one who sins bares his own sin and the one who is righteous bares his righteousness. PLEASE read this it is good.

Eze 18:1 The LORD spoke to me

Eze 18:2 and said, "What is this proverb people keep repeating in the land of Israel? 'The parents ate the sour grapes, But the children got the sour taste.'

Eze 18:3 "As surely as I am the living God," says the Sovereign LORD, "you will not repeat this proverb in Israel any more.

Eze 18:4 The life of every person belongs to me, the life of the parent as well as that of the child. The person who sins is the one who will die.

Eze 18:5 "Suppose there is a truly good man, righteous and honest.

Eze 18:6 He doesn't worship the idols of the Israelites or eat the sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines. He doesn't seduce another man's wife or have intercourse with a woman during her period.

Eze 18:7 He doesn't cheat or rob anyone. He returns what a borrower gives him as security; he feeds the hungry and gives clothing to the naked.

Eze 18:8 He doesn't lend money for profit. He refuses to do evil and gives an honest decision in any dispute.

Eze 18:9 Such a man obeys my commands and carefully keeps my laws. He is righteous, and he will live," says the Sovereign LORD.

Eze 18:10 "Then suppose this man has a son who robs and kills, who does any of these things

Eze 18:11 that the father never did. He eats sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines and seduces other men's wives.

Eze 18:12 He cheats the poor, he robs, he keeps what a borrower gives him as security. He goes to pagan shrines, worships disgusting idols,

Eze 18:13 and lends money for profit. Will he live? No, he will not. He has done all these disgusting things, and so he will die. He will be to blame for his own death.

Eze 18:14 "Now suppose this second man has a son. He sees all the sins his father practiced, but does not follow his example.

Eze 18:15 He doesn't worship the idols of the Israelites or eat the sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines. He doesn't seduce another man's wife

Eze 18:16 or oppress anyone or rob anyone. He returns what a borrower gives him as security. He feeds the hungry and gives clothing to the naked.

Eze 18:17 He refuses to do evil and doesn't lend money for profit. He keeps my laws and obeys my commands. He will not die because of his father's sins, but he will certainly live.

Eze 18:18 His father, on the other hand, cheated and robbed and always did evil to everyone. And so he died because of the sins he himself had committed.

Eze 18:19 "But you ask, 'Why shouldn't the son suffer because of his father's sins?' The answer is that the son did what was right and good. He kept my laws and followed them carefully, and so he will certainly live.

Eze 18:20 It is the one who sins who will die. A son is not to suffer because of his father's sins, nor a father because of the sins of his son. Good people will be rewarded for doing good, and evil people will suffer for the evil they do.

Eze 18:21 "If someone evil stops sinning and keeps my laws, if he does what is right and good, he will not die; he will certainly live.

Eze 18:22 All his sins will be forgiven, and he will live, because he did what is right.

Eze 18:23 Do you think I enjoy seeing evil people die?" asks the Sovereign LORD. "No, I would rather see them repent and live.

Eze 18:24 "But if a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing all the evil, disgusting things that evil people do, will he go on living? No! None of the good he did will be remembered. He will die because of his unfaithfulness and his sins.

Eze 18:25 "But you say, 'What the Lord does isn't right.' Listen to me, you Israelites. Do you think my way of doing things isn't right? It is your way that isn't right.

Eze 18:26 When a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing evil and then dies, he dies because of the evil he has done.

Eze 18:27 When someone evil stops sinning and does what is right and good, he saves his life.

Eze 18:28 He realizes what he is doing and stops sinning, so he will certainly not die, but go on living.

Eze 18:29 And you Israelites say, 'What the Lord does isn't right.' You think my way isn't right, do you? It is your way that isn't right.

Eze 18:30 "Now I, the Sovereign LORD, am telling you Israelites that I will judge each of you by what you have done. Turn away from all the evil you are doing, and don't let your sin destroy you.

Eze 18:31 Give up all the evil you have been doing, and get yourselves new minds and hearts. Why do you Israelites want to die?

Eze 18:32 I do not want anyone to die," says the Sovereign LORD. "Turn away from your sins and live."

This chapter plainly teaches that no man's sin is accounted to his children and no man's rightesouness is attributed to his son or anyone else.

However, that is being said because a rightesous man in this case, has still sinned. Therefore he is not perfect and cannot take the place of anyone else. Jesus on the other hand has never sinned and therefore could be s substitute for sin and a surety for redemption.

Two parts of Jesus death are spoken of in SOP. Jesus paid the price to (1) redeem us. Satan was our slavemaster and we were owned by him, destined to get the wages he's getting. Jesus paid the price (death) to purchase or redeem us. His death purchased us and all things.

This alone is not enough to end this controversy between Christ and Satan. Our sin had to be dealt with otherwise Jesus would own a bunch of willful sinners which could not inherit eternal life. Redemption alone would not be enough to affect our conscience and bring about a trust.

Jesus death is also a substitute death for those who accept Him. All were purchased, but all are not forgiven. Making Himself a sacrifice for the sins of the world is not understood as it should be. The two aspects of Christ death are mixed into one result by this in Christ teaching that has been floating around for too long.

In Hebrews, Pauls speaks about Christ dying once and for all. In other words He does not have to die over and over every year for the new sins and newly born people of this world. One time is enough. What Paul is stating is that His sacrifice is sufficient to apply at anytime in this earth's history. He is not saying that all are in Christ and that all are forgiven or saved.

When Paul speaks about Levi paying tithe in Abraham to Melchezidek, he is not setting a precedent. All he is doing is comparing the Priesthood of Melchezidek to that of Christ's and to show that the order of Levi/Aaron is inferior to that of Melchezidek of whom Christ's order is after. The priesthood of Christ is the context. The secondary point that you bring out doesn't hold because of what we just read in Exek 18. What the father did does not hold for what the son does

Our sin which was in our account and against us condenming us to death was taken and placed on Jesus the Lamb which taketh away the sin of the world. Only those who repent and confess have their sins placed on Christ just as was the shadow in the OT wehn I person brought a sacrifice for sin. He who broought no sacrifice was never forgiven because forgiveness is only given when it's asked for. 1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That confessed sin is in heavenly sanctuary and awaiting to be placed where it belongs, on Satan. Those who have not confessed their sins are still living with them.

So just as in the OT Sanctuary services the lamb was the subsititue and the surity for the repentant believer but his sin was not dealt with until the day of atonement. The repentant sinner was bought and forgiven.

In Christ does not mean that the whole world is in Christ. That is not taught by Paul in the way it has been taught by you know who. What Paul teaches is that Justification is by faith and righteousness is by faith and this misguided teacher takes what Paul means to be for the believer and says it applies to the whole world. In Christ all live, means that those who chose to be in Christ will live. In Adam means that we are all born like him after the fall and will die. Many will receive the gift of God but "many" does not translate to "all" in the greek.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Neil, I posted and after that I read what you posted and you are right. Only I am just stopping in for that post and am gone again for a while.

I no longer am concerned about winning every point. The truth does that on it's own and those who see it and know it, will grasp it.

That's all.

Norman

[Woody]

Quote:

The truth does that on it's own and those who see it and know it, will grasp it.

Like EGW says ... it is as simple as ABC but so many want to make it difficult and complicated.

[phkrause]

Good Sabbath Norman. Its always good to see your name pop up every once in a while. Good post by the way. Take care and don't be a stranger.

pk

[Robert]

Quote:

"In Christ" does not mean that the whole world is in Christ.

"One died for all, therefore all died" [2 Cor 5:14]

Quote:

"In Adam" means that we are all born like him after the fall and will die.

"For as in Adam all die" [1 Cor 15:22]

"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world [the human race - as in "God so loved the world"], and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, [why?] for that all sinned! [Romans 5:12]

" So then as through one trespass [Adam's] the judgment came unto all men to condemnation..." [Romans 5:18]

"Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt [she means "condemnation"] and its consequences" [F&W 88]

[Stan]

Robert, can you please only occasionally use larger fonts....... please

[Robert]

Robert, can you please only occasionally use larger fonts please

TU

[Robert]

Norman,

Read this:

The ‘In Christ’ Motif

The central theme of the aspostle Paul’s theology regarding the gospel is the “in Christ” motif or idea. It is based on the biblical teaching of solidarity or corporate oneness, a concept that is largely foreign to the Western mind, although still common in many parts of the world today. The Bible plainly teaches that the whole of humanity is linked together in a common life and, therefore, constitutes a unit or a shared identity — a corporate oneness.

Notice, for example, how the writer of Hebrews uses this concept of corporate oneness to skillfully weave his argument that Christ’s Melchizedec priesthood is superior to the Levitical priesthood [see Hebrews 6:20-7:28]. First, he proves that Melchizedec was superior to Levi. Once he establishes that, it isn’t hard to see how Christ’s priesthood after the order of Melchizedec is superior to the Levitical priesthood.

But how does the writer of Hebrews prove that Melchizedec is superior to Levi? Simply by reminding his readers that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedec. The argument is briliant; the one who pays tithes is always inferior to the one to whom tithes are paid. But Levi never paid tithes to Melchizedec as an individual! He wasn’t even born in the time of Melchizedec. How, then did he do it? “In Abraham,” says the writer of Hebrews.

Levi, Abraham’s great-grandson, who had not yet been born, “was yet in the loins” of Abraham [Hebrews 7:10] when Abraham met Melchizedec and paid tithes to him [see verses 7-10]. This whole argument is based on the idea of corporate oneness. It helps us understand how all humanity stands condemned “in Adam” and is justified “in Christ,” since all humanity were “in the loins” of these two men and were, therefore, implicated in what they both did.

The Bible view, then, is that God created all mankind in one man, Adam. “...The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into this nostrils the breath of life” [Genesis 2:7; cf. Acts 17:26]. The Hebrew word translated “life” in this verse is in the plural form; it says literally that God breathed into Adam “the breath of lives,” that is, the lives of all human beings.

In the same way, the bible considers that when Adam fell, the whole human family fell “in him.” Since Adam’s sin took place before he had children who could make their own moral decisions, his fall into sin plunged the entire human race into sin [see Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22]. This view is difficult for the Western mind to grasp and accept because it is much more accustomed to thinking in individualistic terms. However, the idea of all mankind, as a corporate unit, participating in Adam’s fall is clearly taught in the Scriptures.

If the downside of the idea of corporate oneness is that we all fell in the one man, Adam, the glorious upside of the idea is that God likewise has redeemed all of us in the one man, Jesus Christ, who is the “second Adam” [see Romans 5:12-21; 1 Corinthians 15:19-23; 45-49]. God has legally justified all mankind in Christ just as surely as Satan has brought about the condemnation of all mankind in Adam [see Romans 5:18].

By God’s miraculous act, initiated and carried out by Him alone, He united in one person — Jesus Christ — our corporate humanity that needed redeeming with His own perfect divine nature. At His incarnation, Christ assumed the corporate life of the entire human race in its fallen condition [see 1 Corinthians 1:30]. Through this mysterious union, God qualified Christ to become the second or “last Adam” [1 Corinthians 15:45]. In Hebrew, the word Adam means “mankind” and, as the second Adam, Jesus Christ became the representative and substitute of corporate humanity. The entire human race is corporately one “in Him” just as we are one “in Adam.” What Jesus did, we have done, because we are corporately one in Him. Thus His life and death, which fully met the positive demands of God’s holy law as well as its justice, are considered to be our life and death also. “In Him,” we are justified because His life and ours were forever linked at the incarnation. This, in brief, is Paul’s “in Christ” motif. It is what constitutes the good news of the gospel [see Ephesians 1:3-12; 2:4-7].

Jesus Christ can abide in you through the Holy Spirit [see Romans 8:9-10] and fulfill in your life the demands of God’s holy law [see verse 4] only because of the objective fact that “in Christ” you have already met all the requirements and demands of the law. That is why Paul comes to this conclusion regarding justification by faith: “Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law” [Romans 3:31; cf. 10:4].

The idea of corporate oneness — that all humanity was “in Christ” — gives a new understanding to the Bible’s teaching of Christ as our Substitute. There is an ethical dilemma in the way we usually think of Christ as our Substitute, a dilemma that is solved by the concept of corporate oneness.

[Woody]

Good to see you restored to CA posting Rob.

[Robert]

Good to see you restored to CA posting Rob.

Yes...Stan said it was "the permission change" and no moderator was responsible. So I guess I got a bit paranoid, huh?

[Stan]

Good to see you restored to CA posting Rob.

It was me, I was changing the permissions of the forums that paid/unpaid members could post.

I change them from time to time.. not as often as I should

[Robert]

“in Christ” you have already met all the requirements and demands of the law.

a] In the New Testament, the “gospel” is the unconditional good news of salvation for all mankind made sure by the historical reality of Jesus’ birth, life, and death [see Mark 16:15; Romans 1:1-14; 10:13-15].

b] This salvation delivers us from the three predicaments we face as sinful human beings. It saves us from:

1. the guilt and punishment of sin (this is our justification);

2. the power and slavery of sin (this is our sanctification); and

3. the nature and presence of sin (this is our glorification).

c] All three of these aspects of salvation — justification, sanctification, and glorification — have already been accomplished in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

d] The apostle Paul describes the salvation God has already accomplished for all humanity in the finished work of Jesus as “you in Christ” [see 1 Corinthians 1:30-31; Ephesians 1:3-6; 2:13; Philippians 3:9].

[Robert]

All three of these aspects of salvation — justification, sanctification, and glorification —[color:#990000] have already been accomplished in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

But of Him [God the Father] you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--that is, our justification and sanctification and redemption-- that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord." [1 Cor 1:30,31]

"In Christ" we, corporately, stand legally justified, sanctified and glorified. All these things we already have "in Christ". The only thing left is to experience them in our lives as believers.

Rob

[Stan]

Robert, can you please only occasionally use larger fonts....... please

By that I mean once a week or less, for everyone

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

Robert, can you please only occasionally use larger fonts....... please

By that I mean once a week or less, for everyone

Okay...but this was really hard to read!

Rob

[phkrause]

So rob what did you use to read it? Because I couldn't read it. Either you have very good eyes or you guessed. I think I prefer the larger letters even though its not appropriate.

pk

[Lineman]

Cut and paste to here and then you can read it.

[phkrause]

Thanks lineman, but rob had already translated that in a post up above!

pk

[Robert]

So rob what did you use to read it? Because I couldn't read it. Either you have very good eyes or you guessed. I think I prefer the larger letters even though its not appropriate.

pk

Just click on "quote" when you go to reply....

[phkrause]

I did that and thought that that would help but it didn't, thanks anyway.

pk

[Cosmin M.]

"Truth. It lies somewhere between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21"

-Cosmin M. (Me