This Is Pharaseeism At Its Best:

[Robert]

I received a message from a certain unnamed person. Here are the highlights of what was said:

"...you are talking about my life being a tangled life of failure, not knowing about my life whatsoever."

The context was with respect to the spirit of the law, not how much one has achieved in their life. So the "failure" I spoke of was that we are "falling short" of living the life of Christ.

"I don't mean to brag, but"...

James 4:16 "As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil."

1 John 2:16 "For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world."

"I doubt that our only child would have amounted to anything, but he has a PhD in physical chemistry, and is a research scientist."

Note the proud Pharisaical attitude! Now contrast that to what the person said to me:

"Your wife has left you; your sons are a mess."

I rest my case! Folks open up your eyes. There's an element within Adventism that takes great pride in both their law keeping and their status in life. Jesus had words of such individuals:

Luke 18:9-14

9 Jesus told his next story to some who were complacently pleased with themselves and their moral performance and looked down their noses at the common people: 10 "Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax man. 11 The Pharisee posed and prayed like this: 'Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like other people - robbers, crooks, adulterers, or, heaven forbid, like this tax man. 12 I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.' 13 "Meanwhile the tax man, slumped in the shadows, his face in his hands, not daring to look up, said, 'God, give mercy. Forgive me, a sinner.'" 14 Jesus commented, "This tax man, not the other, went home made right with God. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you're going to end up flat on your face....

[phkrause]

Just because one person, even if he is an adventist, doesn't mean that that is traditional adventism. I know of many people that could have and would have said the same, and they are not adventists. Each person is an individual before God and not a catholic, muslim, baptist, mormon, etc. Because God looks at us from the inside and not what we claim or pretend to be on the outside. Sometimes Rob its seems to me that you like to jump on others but as soon as someone says something that you don't like you get afendant (spelling) and you like to retaliate. Sorry but that's what I have observed. And you love to blame it on someone being an Adventist.

pk

[Gail]

Ouch- that hurts! I'm sorry that you were party to that, Robert. Even if true, what good would it do to bring up a person's failings?

Even so, if you meant well by it in speaking of our "coming short", one has to be very careful how one does it. Some folks can get away with it better than others.

When you use words such as boasting and failure, even if you believe it to be true, it will most likely not improve the situation.

Arguments tempt pride and defensiveness so easily. That's usually the end of beneficial communication.

[John317]

The post about a message someone sent you is inappropriate. It is taking what I assume is a private message and posting part of the words to illustrate the thinking of an entire group of people. That is hardly fair, because it would require the person to reveal he is the writer of a private message if he were going to respond to it. And it is also unfair because you are denigrating or condemning a whole group of people, who are made up of many types of individuals and have different way of thinking and approaches to traditional Adventisim.

[phkrause]

John its not a private message, at least i don't think so. Its a comment someone made in one of the forums. And besides what's an traditional adventist? Someone that believes what they have learned from the time they became an adventist. That is everyone that has ever become an adventist, no matter what year it was. And for that matter any christian is a traditional christian.

pk

[Neil D]

I have a confession to make.....

I am NOT the person who said this.......

and I am staying out of it...

Nevertheless, it is rather disconcerting that one recieve the above message...It also shows a flagrant disregard of human sympathy.....and it is something that is very much lacking in Adventist circles.....Oh, ...dang...I guess I did sink to that level, didn't I....

Sorry...

[phkrause]

Shame on you Neil, tsk tsk tsk!

pk

[Lineman]

Quote:

There's an element within Adventism that takes great pride in both their law keeping and their status in life. Jesus had words of such individuals:

Luke 18:9-14

9 Jesus told his next story to some who were complacently pleased with themselves and their moral performance and looked down their noses at the common people

I have to agree that there isn't a "traditional Adventist" that I know of. Each one, regardless of year born, or whether or not they grew up SDA, is as different as the person you know best is from you.

Having said that I need to also state that, yes, there is "an element within Adventism" as there is an element everywhere else that "takes pride in both their law keeping and their status in life." I work with people who fit into this latter group and I go to church with people who fit into the first group. They're everywhere!

To be honest though, aren't these the people that Jesus came to save? Aren't they like the coin that was lost, but didn't know it?

[phkrause]

Good post lineman. Exactly, and only Jesus can judge them. He knows there hearts from within.

pk

[John317]

....it is rather disconcerting that one recieve the above message...It also shows a flagrant disregard of human sympathy.....

I agree with you on this, but the point I am making is that stereotyping is neither necessary nor fair. That would be like saying that we can blame all democrats or republicans or people of any group for what some members do.

And as far as disregarding human sympathy and being unthoughtful is concerned, I think everyone will agree that there's enough of those things to warrant the conclusion that it's a human quality, not something we find especially among a particular group.

[John317]

After the change of the title, as it now reads, I completely agree with you, and I apologize for that poster to you. I am going to assume that he did it before he really thought through what he was saying.

[Cosmin M.]

Those that saw those words are probably not Adventists.

“It takes two men to make one brother”

Israel Zangwill

[jasd]

>>That would be like saying that we can blame all democrats...<<

You mean, like, we can’t!? even upon a point of fact?

[jasd]

>>“It takes two men to make one brother”<<

Or, one man and his sister, yes? :-)

[phkrause]

Well its obvious that all blamed the Republicans for what they preceived Bush did! Yes I agree sometimes, or should I say many times, we blame all for the actions of one.

pk

[Cosmin M.]

>>“It takes two men to make one brother”<<

Or, one man and his sister, yes? :-)

Exactly.