What Liberals Hate More Than Bush

[Key Guy]

Most conservatives do believe the mainstream press is liberal.

Shane, that statement is true. However, many libs feel that the press is too conservative. The facts reported by objective media watchdogs support the concerns of the conservatives and that's the point I want to stress. We all can make statements or claim this or that. A good discussion is predicated on facts, not feelings.

We may disagree on the source of those facts and that's something we'll have to work through.

Remember the interview on the View with Ann Coulter? Her book (Guilty) was well-researched and no one disputes her facts. So, what can the girls use to argue their points? Feelings and personal attacks. Emotions really need to be in control on sensitive topics.

[Woody]

Quote:

Emotions really need to be in control on sensitive topics.

Thank you for saying that Key Guy.

[Bravus]

The Fairness Doctrine is a horrible idea, for one simple reason - it assumes that there are two and only two sides. Kurt Vonnegut summed it up perfectly: "Because of television, and for the convenience of television, you can only be one of two kinds of people, a liberal or a conservative".

We're all more complex than that. But the more we tune in to media that draw that sharp dividing line, the more sharply divided we become. If I look at my whole set of beliefs and values, some would fall in the 'liberal' and some in the 'conservative' column... and most aren't anywhere on that continuum at all.

What I object to with this thread is that the implication is that liberals want Fox and Rush destroyed. Not true. They just don't want to watch, and they think it's important to set factual things straight. If Fox is consistently reporting that Ingmar Guandiqu is an illegal immigrant when he's not, for example, setting that straight is not 'hating Fox', and it's certainly not hating freedom of the press. It's loving the truth.

[phkrause]

But the thing is Bravus Fox is not the only station saying that. I think when I first heard and saw that the other day, it was on almost every station I tuned into. But I agree with you on that liberal and conservative issue. I personally don't except those labels. Its like many years ago when I had long hair, a beard etc. I was label a hippy, well I was far from that. Because someone came up with a certain label for certain people doesn't make it so.

pk

[Bravus]

I do think (I said this in the other forum but it was about this forum) that it's disingenuous to say something rude and untrue about a whole group of people - 'liberals hate freedom of the press' - and then when they object to tell them that they're taking it personally and being overly emotional and it's their problem. Why not just avoid the insults in the first place? Or if you *must* make them, write clearly - 'You know, Arriana Huffington really hates Fox'. To make a comment about liberals is to include liberals - it's how language works. And this "now wife, when I said 'women are terrible drivers', it didn't mean you, so stop being all emotional"... it's nonsense.

[olger]

Grandpa said if you throw a rock into a dog pack, the one that yelps is the one that got hit. I think Grandpa was right.

`oG

[Bravus]

I think so too: but we're all friends here, why throw rocks?

[Bravus]

To put it another way, what purpose does this thread serve?

[phkrause]

pk

[olger]

I could be a healthy exchange of ideas, from non-Pavlovian types.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Bravus, don't you know the mantra from the uber conservative? The press IS LIBERAL!!!!!

.....'cept Fox.

Some would say that this comment is trying to push buttons. And maybe it would push some people's buttons. I happen to think this is a fair comment. Most conservatives do believe the mainstream press is liberal. I don't even think we have to go to the "uber" or far right to find that sentiment. I am a moderate that leans conservative and believe that, for the most part, the mainstream press is liberal. Now I give them credit for improving over the past decade. I can see liberal bias in the GMA every morning. Even this morning they were interviewing a Democrat congressman that was bad mouthing the banking CEOs but did not interview anyone from the banking industry to get the other side. So I agree that conservative believe the mainstream media is liberal. And agree that they are right.

First off, aren't you being a bit wrong in taking my quote out of context?

Second, if my quote is out of context, then anything else you are saying is advancing YOUR ideas and your agenda, isn't it?....

3rd, if my quote is out of context, are you not, by using my quote, being manipulative....?

So, Shane, I will say this only once....quit putting words in my mouth, as I don't like the taste of your words...If you quote me, quote me in context...And of late, I haven't been saying anything that is worth repeating...I know, there are some here who would go so far as to say that NOTHING I say is worth repeating....So, Shane, why are you quoting me now, and out of context now????

[Bravus]

How could it be a healthy exchange of ideas, olger? I could have either said 'true, liberals do hate freedom of the press', which is a simple lie, or 'oh no they don't', which is a pointless contradiction. Care to outline a thoughtful, non-Pavlovian response that can be given to such a ridiculous charge?

[Neil D]

To put it another way, what purpose does this thread serve?

I can answer that....

it serves to vent...to rehash old bumper stickers and to grip about percieved myths that society has..to validate those same myths and value systems that some are too lazy to investigate and update. It serves to picture the society of man as the lowest of the low, and to validate that **MY** values are superior than yours...It is to undermine the true worth of the individual who may have fallen on hard times, and to replay platitudes that have no skin on them and only serve to bolster shallow religious values.

This thread, Bravus, is what makes Adventist truely come up to the true values we hold dear....

[Bravus]

If Shane had been willing to leave it at 'Liberals hate Fox and Limbaugh', then a discussion might be possible: it was the sting in the tale that made it ridiculous. But...

OK, let me give it a go.

Are liberals asking for Fox and Limbaugh to be banned? No, they are not. So they don't hate freedom of the press. They dislike (hate is much too strong a word) certain networks and programs, as is their inalienable right. They dislike them because they believe they (a) spin things in ways that are dishonest, ( sometimes spread things that are directly untrue and © focus on fear and contempt for other people.

What, do conservatives hate freedom of selecting which channel we watch?

See, even with a best effort, it's still going to end up as a stoush. This thread was meant to start a fight, and there have been a lot of threads started lately, 95% by conservatives, with that goal. You can say all you like that it's intended to start thoughtful debate, but really, deep in your heart, you know that the question was set up the way it was in order to start a fight.

That's my point, that's my whole point, and it's pretty simple. Starting threads like this one degrades the forum discussion experience.

[phkrause]

pk

[Dr. Shane]

This thread points out the logical conclusion of the hatred out there in the liberal blogosphere. Do liberals want to ban Limbaugh and FOXNews? Some of them do. Absolutely! However most just want to discredit them so that no one will listen or watch them. The results are the same.

Just surf the liberal blogs and this agenda becomes clear. Now I do not want anyone to think that by pointing out this erring philosophy of so many liberals that I am somehow defending conservatives. Conservatives have a number of erring philosophies too but that is a topic for another thread.

Now many liberals will jump back aghast at the suggestion that they are not in favor of freedom of the press. But when we walk through it we see that is where their ideologies take us. Again, that is not to say conservatives have everything right. They don't. I firmly believe that Seventh-day Adventists tend to fall more into the moderate area on the spectrum. Adventists cherish our First Amendment freedoms perhaps more than any other denomination of Christians.

So when I hear liberals belly-aching about Conservatives in the media it makes me rather grateful that those liberals have something to bellyache about. Democrats now control both Congress and the Presidency but that isn't enough for some liberals in the media. They want to silence those that disagree with them. So I keep that in context when I hear their criticism of FOXNews and Limbaugh.

[Neil D]

I don't want to bring this thread to a new low....But Shane, if you were to switch every "conservative" for Liberal and every 'Liberal' for conservative, you would have a good idea how I feel about your views and those of every other ultra conservative...[Ya, I know, you are not a conservative, you are "a moderate with conservative views"....uh huh...that's a side issue.]

As for the advenstist church taking sides of moderate or conservative or liberal views, for most of the issues, the Adventist Church is to afraid of taking issues and doesn't want to appear to offend. Hence, it is a non-issue church...Gone are the days where it took a stand against race, and other issues for humanity.

But back to the issue of Rush and Fox news....I see more hatred in those shows...Shoot, Rush was using hate speach many years ago, with "feminazi" and "pinkocommie"...and Shane, if you defend these words, what makes you any less of a hate speach spin meister? These are words used to hurt and offend, and I have seen you defend these words before....where you use them to describe women who are trying to advance women issues such that they become independant, whole female human beings.

That may clash with your idea of a 'help meet', but to some of these women, help meet is a synonim[sp] for 'slave' or second class citizen.

I have seen/heard the principles of greed, not only defended, but held as a model for others on Rush's show and on Fox. To many times, you and I have seen the dollars of others squandered on boats and luxuary items when others in the church could have had a helping hand. And when Adventists commplain of the 'taxes that they are force to give to the goverment instead of the church' when they have a motor home, boat, and a two story house, I tend to be very skeptical of thier complaints....

[Bravus]

Just went for a long ride in the sunshine on my motorbike, so my blood pressure is much lower and I've had some time to think. Here's some fruit.

If you want to have a thoughtful, friendly discussion about the media, what you don't do is yell "LIBERALS HATE MOM, APPLE PIE AND EVERYTHING AMERICA STANDS FOR!!!" and then say "OK, my liberal friends and brothers, let's sit down and have a friendly chat about media". (And then act all offended about their 'Pavlovian' responses...)

What you might do is something like this:

Quote:

Different media universes?

It seems to me as though most liberals focus on the mainstream media networks - MSNBC, CNN, ABC and so on - and on liberal sites like Salon and Huffington. Most conservatives seem to focus on Fox and on conservative web sites like Drudge and {fill in some here}.

Which media do you enjoy, and why?

And do you think we might all be healthier with a more balanced diet, rather than just sticking to one flavour?

[Tom Wetmore]

This thread and others of similar ilk have spawned an idea for yet another subforum. We could call it simply RANT!!! .

This would be the place for those who only want to vent, go on a rampaging tirade posting their favorite soap box hobby horse diatribe. Such person's typically do not want to hear, much less actually consider any other point of view. Any other point of view even remotely on the topic, serves only to calcify their view and further inflame their hyperbole and rhetoric. There is no dialog as even attempting rational discussion is futile - it is just people shouting past each other.

So to meet the need of such folk, there would be but one simple rule for this forum - Nobody else may respond to anything or anyone else posted on that forum. Basically you have a one shot chance of shouting into the wind to get the catharsis you feel you apparently so desperately need. Get it off your chest and move on...

I envision that forum as an perfect place for pompous political

pontificators...

Tom

[olger]

How could it be a healthy exchange of ideas, olger? I could have either said 'true, liberals do hate freedom of the press', which is a simple lie, or 'oh no they don't', which is a pointless contradiction. Care to outline a thoughtful, non-Pavlovian response that can be given to such a ridiculous charge?

You're too emotional today. I'll check back, Monday.

`oG

[olger]

So when I hear liberals belly-aching about Conservatives in the media it makes me rather grateful that those liberals have something to bellyache about. Democrats now control both Congress and the Presidency but that isn't enough for some liberals in the media. They want to silence those that disagree with them. So I keep that in context when I hear their criticism of FOXNews and Limbaugh.

Very succinctly put.

`oG

[Bravus]

olger, what's your response to this post:

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthrea...html#Post221382

[phkrause]

I wonder than where I fit? Like I've said before I'm neither. I like MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS. I dislike Salon and Huffington. I love Fox, but dislike Drudge. The thing I dislike on all the networks is the weather, just the way they present it drives me bonkers.

pk

[Bravus]

Sounds to me like you're that healthy person with a balanced diet.

And that view is borne out by your thoughtful posts here.

[Dr. Shane]

Matt Drudge is a conservative but his site, Drudge Report, is mostly links to other sites with news stories that interest conservatives. Sometimes that means there are links to liberal sites. If it is an story that interests a conservative, Drudge links to it. So the Drudge Report is not a real good example of a conservative, ideological site. Newsmax.com is a better example of a conservative, ideological site.