Mouthy Conservatives are Turning This Forum Into A Toxic Waste Dump

[Cosmin M.]

Why we hate politics.....

[phkrause]

Absolutely cosmin. But I don't hate politics I just avoid it as much as possible. Its actually worse than a married couple building there own home together.

pk

[Bravus]

Hey, isn't Colin Hay the singer from the Aussie band 'Men at Work' who had the huge hit with 'Land Down Under' in 1983 and who later appeared on a couple of episodes of 'Scrubs'?

Probably a different Colin Hay...

[phkrause]

Not sure but I did like them alot.

pk

[olger]

No pushing buttons.

[olger]

Hey, isn't Colin Hay the singer from the Aussie band 'Men at Work' who had the huge hit with 'Land Down Under' in 1983 and who later appeared on a couple of episodes of 'Scrubs'?

Dat be him.

[Dr. Shane]

As far as me I'm neither a conservative, liberal, democrat or republican. Don't care for those so called categories.

pk

We are in the same boat. An Adventist evangelist told me when I was in college that we (Adventists) should beware of political extremes. When he told me that I was politically extreme. I was a radical Libertarian that hung out with some sympathetic College Republicans. I gave this evangelist a ride to the airport which gave me a bit over an hour to have this discussion with him. It didn't change me overnight but it reorientated me.

If other Adventists want to label themselves "liberals" "conservatives" "Democrats" "Republicans" "socialists" "Libertarian" or whatever they are free to do so but I will continue to challenge the reasoning of these groups. That is what the arena of ideas is all about. It is about the healthy exchange of ideas. I think I challenge pretty much all the political identities and don't just pick on liberals or socialists.

[Woody]

What makes it toxic is that a massive percentage of posts are from conservatives attacking liberals and liberal ideas. Just have a look over all the started threads in this forum, plus World Affairs and Town Hall, over the past couple of weeks. How many were started by those identifying as conservatives and how many by liberals? How many bash liberals, in one way or another?

Redwood, you're a good guy, but if you were watching Discovery all day instead of Fox all day and starting threads, perhaps this forum would be about the wonders of God's amazing creation and the marvels of science and adventure, not the hate and fear and contempt for other children of God that we see.

It's not my 'emotional' reaction to the threads that makes them toxic, it's their content and intent, and the heart behind them. If you immerse yourself in poison, it's going to come out in what you post.

As for ichabod, I've spent tens of hours on PM with him over the years, and tried everything from conciliation and apology and explanation to strong confrontation of his behaviour. Nothing has worked, and he just keeps on doing exactly what he does. Read all his posts for the past month, or year if you have the stomach. Has he started a good discussion? HAs he contributed anything? No - he always posts only to be sarcastic and superior, to put people down, to attack, and then hides behind his little semantic dodges of 'oh, I'm all pure, I never judge people's motives, I just talk about their posts'... when he talks about the posts in ways that to every reader except him clearly say that the poster he's talking about is an idiot or in some other way inferior.

The bad thing is, basically none of these changes I'm seeking can be legislated. People could be banned, but that's not what I want. Maybe I just need to stay out of the Politics forum, and the mods need to be even more stringent in banishing all posts from other forums into this one.

But I love the Adventist Forum. It's a big part of my life. I spend hours here every day and have done for years. But it's become a far less enjoyable place to be, and the reason is this massive wash of hardline conservative posting.

I wish I could convince you that I don't only object because I'm a 'liberal' and disagree with the content, but because it pushes this whole site into being a battleground with fixed battle lines, instead of a place where a group of friends can chat about a wide range of interesting topics.

Wow!!! Anyone and Anything else you want to bash. You are one who preaches rules ... yet you are the biggest offender. Just read this post and see how many rules you have offended. And you have the nerve to call on moderators to censure more posts? What about your own? You object to opinion and then bash the ones that give it. What kind of example are you?

If you don't like the opinions given ... express your own. If you don't like the volume of opinions that don't reflect yours ... then post more of your own. But DO NOT bash people just for expressing themselves.

It seems to me that you need a chill pill. Perhaps it would be best if you simply did not read the politics section. We come here to pleasantly have discussions. If you can't handle it ... them maybe this is not the place for you.

[Woody]

Quote:

Excellent post brother. The problem as I see it is those calling others names yet complaining that those others are calling them names. example would be the title of this thread.

I agree. Good post. No matter how good of an example one sets ... we have people fly off on the handle and get upset calling others names. People get hurt and leave. People get discouraged. Is this what Christianity is about?

We should not be 'fighting' as this poster has declared he intends to do. We should be able to speak nicely and abide by the rules set forth in the forum. May I ask why the rules have been suspended for this poster?

There is no virute in this discussion ... this thread or this title. My advice to the poster is to chill.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

No pushing buttons.

Yes Olger. Meltdown. What a shame.

[Bravus]

I did need a chill pill last week, and probably shouldn't have posted in one of the most stressful weeks of the year. I may have gone further than I should have.

But I stand by every point I made. This site is getting worse and more hostile because of people making hostile political posts.

I do not 'preach rules': I was always with Stan in his stand that rules are unhelpful, and I remain of that opinion. When John317 started the rules discussion I participated, but I firmly believe that the only rule of any worth is courtesy and common sense, and in the absence of that no other rules will work.

I have attacked only those who have repeatedly attacked me and others. If you read the 'What Liberals Hate...' thread you will see that Shane and I have been able to work it through to a positive outcome.

Posting left-wing hostility to balance out right-wing hostility would be completely counterproductive. The goal is to reduce to the total level of political hostility on this site, not to increase it.

I have nowhere called for posts to be censured. At every stage I am asking people to be responsible for their own posts and to change their behaviour of their own free will because they recognise that they are damaging this forum.

I have not suggested or requested that anyone by banned, although I did suggest to Stan by PM that he might like to ban me over my actions in this thread, and that I'd be happy to abide by that.

I still regard you as a friend, Redwood, and didn't want to hurt you. I apologise if I have. But I also love this site, and couldn't stand idly by and see it destroyed.

I'll respond to this thread if anyone has challenges or wants to talk, but as far as I'm concerned I've said what I believed needed to be said and the issue is closed. Everyone should do with it exactly as they want.

[Woody]

Quote:

But I also love this site, and couldn't stand idly by and see it destroyed.

What you have done is causing it to be destroyed. It was doing fine till you went on your rant.

[Bravus]

I beg to differ, but that's a matter of perspective.

[Jeannieb43]

What makes it toxic is that a massive percentage of posts are from conservatives attacking liberals and liberal ideas. Just have a look over all the started threads in this forum, plus World Affairs and Town Hall, over the past couple of weeks. How many were started by those identifying as conservatives and how many by liberals? How many bash liberals, in one way or another?

Redwood, you're a good guy, but if you were watching Discovery all day instead of Fox all day and starting threads, perhaps this forum would be about the wonders of God's amazing creation and the marvels of science and adventure, not the hate and fear and contempt for other children of God that we see.

It's not my 'emotional' reaction to the threads that makes them toxic, it's their content and intent, and the heart behind them. If you immerse yourself in poison, it's going to come out in what you post.

As for ichabod, I've spent tens of hours on PM with him over the years, and tried everything from conciliation and apology and explanation to strong confrontation of his behaviour. Nothing has worked, and he just keeps on doing exactly what he does. Read all his posts for the past month, or year if you have the stomach. Has he started a good discussion? HAs he contributed anything? No - he always posts only to be sarcastic and superior, to put people down, to attack, and then hides behind his little semantic dodges of 'oh, I'm all pure, I never judge people's motives, I just talk about their posts'... when he talks about the posts in ways that to every reader except him clearly say that the poster he's talking about is an idiot or in some other way inferior.

The bad thing is, basically none of these changes I'm seeking can be legislated. People could be banned, but that's not what I want. Maybe I just need to stay out of the Politics forum, and the mods need to be even more stringent in banishing all posts from other forums into this one.

But I love the Adventist Forum. It's a big part of my life. I spend hours here every day and have done for years. But it's become a far less enjoyable place to be, and the reason is this massive wash of hardline conservative posting.

I wish I could convince you that I don't only object because I'm a 'liberal' and disagree with the content, but because it pushes this whole site into being a battleground with fixed battle lines, instead of a place where a group of friends can chat about a wide range of interesting topics.

Bravus, your post bears repeating.

I stay away from these combative threads most of the time. They're just a waste of energy. But you say things so succinctly that I wanted to read your post again. You're a good Moderator. Keep up the good work.

[Woody]

I would still like to ask why the rules have been suspended for your rant? You can dislike Ichabod all you want. But it is not appropriate for you to attack him in public. I again refer you to Matt. 18 and the rules of this forum.

[Bravus]

I have followed the Matthew 18 process with ichabod - as I said above, I have spent literally tens of hours with him on PM. Nothing has changed. His every post is to put someone down.

I'm happy to be banned or sanctioned for my post.

[Woody]

Oh. Don't worry. You won't be. But this is not what Matt. 18 nor the rules of this forum had in mind.

After saying this:

"His every post is to put someone down."

I would think it is you that needs to do the apologizing.

[Bravus]

Go look at the evidence.

[Woody]

Redwood shaking his head. He doesn't get the point.

Redwood ... going to bed.

[Bravus]

Incidentally, in case people have missed it, as they seem to have missed so much else of the substance of what I was saying, the title of this thread is a direct parody of the title of Shane's. If you can find another thread I started with an attack title like this I will voluntarily take a one month hiatus from this site.

[Neil D]

Quote:

But I also love this site, and couldn't stand idly by and see it destroyed.

What you have done is causing it to be destroyed. It was doing fine till you went on your rant.

I strongly disagree, Redwood...

You have a preconcieved bias against moderators, which I have found to be misleading at best. That preconcied bias is that moderators can not be banned, and as such, they can say anything they want. This is simply not true. Granted, we have been given a lot more lattitude, but both Bravus and I have been willing to be banned for things that we have said against people who have been abusers. But this is a side issue.

No, this site has been turned into a toxic waste dump because of the attitudes of ubber conservatives that are here. They seem to think that it's ok to agressively lable the liberal or progressives or anyone who has a different idea than thier bumpersticker platitudes. To Shane's credit, he has done some correction of his attitude, but it hasn't affected his chronic perceptions. Do I dare talk of YOUR attitude that has turned this place into a toxic dump? You post here more than I so don't try to put the majority of the blame on me...I may have my faults, but I am willing to look for solutions...and I back off..You don't.

..and your threads have nearly always been toxic. Your replys in other threads have at least one toxic post to them among the ones you THINK are funny, but mask the hurtful/unhelpful post as well.

And don't think that Olger is gonna get off this without some blame either. His post have always been reflective of people takin' his money from either him or his business. And I just don't talk about Ichy things.

Bravus is curteous enough not to name names..I have no such values...You've been a major instrument in causing problems here. Why don't you try changing tact...?

[Woody]

You guys don't stop do you?

Anyone else you want to personally trash while Administration is allowing all these personal attacks? Oh ... am I to believe that no moderators or Admin. (other then those participating in this trash) .... are actually seeing this toxic dump? After all ... they can't read everything ... they are too busy.

After all these toxins are spewed ... and all is said and done ... I have to wonder the effect that the 'Bravitization' of our rules will have on this forum. A mockery has been made of them. And I wonder if they will ever have any validity after this. I fear that all the hard work that John317 put into them ... will have been for naught.

[Stan]

Very few folks view their own posts as toxic, sometimes we all, including myself, need to listen to friends, and sometimes even those we might have trouble putting their name in the same sentence that begins with My friends name is....

[Woody]

Redwood...redwood...redwood...here, have some cheese and crackers, lean back in the hot tub and relax! Thats the best way to enjoy wine!

I don't enjoy whinning. And I would only use a Redwood hot tub. Ya got one?

[phkrause]

Redwood I'm not taking any sides, so don't get me wrong when I say, I think we're all to blame for this thread getting out of hand, knowingly or unknowingly. So I think we should all lighten up and chill. If you think I'n wrong just let me have it. And just to let you know I'm ducking down!

pk