Sabbath under attack still

[True-believer]

Adam and Eve would have know the natural laws of God as soon as they opened their eyes upon being created, in my opinion, or they would have learned it very quickly thereafter. Since they had to tendency toward evil, they would scarcely have been aware of the existence of laws. For example, I do not smoke. When I go into a restaurant where no smoking is allowed, I probably do not even formulate a thought about that rule (law) while I am in the restaurant because I am not a smoker and I am not tempted to smoke and have no interest in it.

Before Adam and Eve at the fruit, they were only aware of good. Good things always happened to them, and there was no death to worry about, and no selfishness to marr their pefect relationship. With these three statements the Bible seems to teach that by eating the fruit, they added an understanding of evil, which they did not have before. They understood, after that point, that they and their descendents would have to die-- a very scary thing, I am sure.

While there is a relationship between understanding the laws of God and understanding evil that they had not known about before, they are not one and the same thing.

Then 10 Commandments do not even begin to cover all the aspects of morality. Under the New Covenant, a hasty temper and homosexual behavior, as two examples, are forbidden. The 10 Commandments do not address either problem at all. The TORAH, of which the 10 Commandments were a part, did forbid homosexual behavior, but still did not address the problem of a hasty temper. The New Covenant is much stronger for a standpoint of setting the standard for moral behavior, including our motives.

I hope this helps. In regard to Luke, if he is determined to believe in the Sabbath, there is no amount of evidence that will convince him otherwise. I will keep him in my prayers.

Thanks!

Kerry

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From: vicki nikolic <nikolic@adam.com.au>

To: KERRY WYNNE <k.wynne@sbcglobal.net>

Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 7:04:22 PM

Subject: Re: The tree of knowledge must be the answer.

Thanks Kerry,

1. then the eyes of both of them were open, they realize that they were naked.

2 .who told you that you were naked, have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat,

3.the man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

that all these 3 statements, indicates that man, now knows right from wrong, just from consuming the fruit.Does that mean, from eating the fruit he knows, the natural Laws of God, from Vicki....(did Luke send you a email about the sabbath that he has a knowledge so far)

----- Original Message -----

From: KERRY WYNNE

To: vicki nikolic

Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:16 AM

Subject: Re: THE TREE OF KNOWLEDLGE

Thanks for your question, Vicki. You ask some very profound questions.

With a question like this, all I can do is to explain what I personally believe about it, since the Bible does not tell us. Knowing God's character of love and the nature of God's laws, which are 100% natural, just like gravity, I believe it is possible to suggest a highly possible theory.

Adam and Eve were created to be perfect. They had no natural tendency to be selfish or sinful. With no bent toward sin, and with the principles of right and wrong as easy to understand as the natural laws of gravity, I am not certain that God ever had to sit down with Adam and Eve and go over a list of all the bad things they COULD NOT do.

There was one rule he had to talk with them about, and it was not strictly a natural law as I have been describing. The human race was subject to a test. Satan was probably allowed access to Adam and Eve only at the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It took a "special" rule to keep them from danger and to help them "pass the test" of loyalty to God.

I assume, but can not prove, the idea that probably after going a few months or years of avoiding the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, God would have kicked Satan out of Planet Earth and sent the bad three with him. Adam and Eve would have passed the loyalty test, necessary, perhaps, to assure that Adam and Eve had real freedom of choice-- something that Satan had probably accused God of not giving His created beings.

It is evident that God's laws were known to Adam and Eve by the time they left the Garden. Cain killed Abel, and God clearly viewed it as a violation of His laws. Again, we are back to the self-evident. Does anyone really need a formal law to tell them that killing someone is wrong?

The real law of God is to love others as we love ourselves and to love God supremely above anyone and everything else. This kind of law would apply anywhere in the universe.

Let us say that the United States eventually puts a man and a woman on Mars and they grow crops with the water scientists think is under the soil there. Sabbath-keeping from Sundown to Sunset might be totally different, and perhaps impossible, but the principle of "Thou shalt not commit adultery" applies on Mars or on Earth. Picture a group of men and women astronauts in a community on the Moon. The Moon rotates something like one a year. Sabbath-keeping would be impossible, but God's other natural laws still apply-- no stealing, no killing, and, definitely, no adultery.

How can Christians keep the Sabbath in Heaven. There is no night or day there, so there is no reference point for an Earth-time 24-hour period of time and 7 days of reckoning.

You must regard what I have just explained as my own personal theory. I can not prove what I have just told you from the Bible, and I was not "shown" it by an angel in vision!

Thanks!

Kerry

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From: vicki nikolic <nikolic@adam.com.au>

To: KERRY WYNNE <k.wynne@sbcglobal.net>

Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 7:09:06 AM

Subject: THE TREE OF KNOWLEDLGE

Hi Kerry, by man eating of the tree of good and evil, was that the first time that man got knowledge of God laws,? You have answered my question's very good and I have sent it of to Luke to read, from Vicki...

[True-believer]

Hello everyone,

The above article is between my mum and Kerry--the exAdventist.

Trying to proof that the Sabbath is not in existence.

Please pray.

I realise that their email addresses also came up in the above article.

Please pray.

[John317]

Does Kerry "keep" Sunday now?

Does he attend church, and if so, which one?

Have you ever read a book called The History of the Sabbath, by J.N. Andrews?

It's one of the best books written on the Sabbath:

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/history/History_of_the_Sabbath.pdf

[Gail]

Luke, we know that the Sabbath will PARTICULARLY be under attack, especially in these last days. What you are going through will not only be your cross to bear, but will be the same for many of us.

There will come a time when the disasters of the world will be blamed on people's not keeping God's commandments. But the commandments they propose that they keep will include Sunday, the substitute Sabbath. They will think that they are doing God's will, but they will be teaching, and eventually forcing, people to continue to disobey God's law.

Are you old enough and independent enough to move out on your own? I ask this because it is even more difficult to endure when it is your family which is persecuting you.

Yes, if you can find a copy of the book that was suggested, the History of the Sabbath, that may give you some support.

You are not alone, Luke! We are praying for you!

[Cosmin M.]

Correctly said.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Kerry

How can Christians keep the Sabbath in Heaven. There is no night or day there, so there is no reference point for an Earth-time 24-hour period of time and 7 days of reckoning.

You must regard what I have just explained as my own personal theory. I can not prove what I have just told you from the Bible, and I was not "shown" it by an angel in vision!

Thanks!

Kerry

That last part is key -- Kerry admits to just "making stuff up". Which is fine if that is the basis for doctrine for some folks -- but I would never recommend that method to Christians in general.

Christ has made the point clear that in the 7 day Creation week when BOTH the Sabbath and mankind are made "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not Mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27.

Pretty hard to miss that point.

Further in Is 66 we are told that in the New Earth "From one Sabbath to another -- shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

So in these cases we DO have the Bible speaking to the point of the time of origin of the Sabbath, the scope of the sabbath (all mankind), and the eternal continuing nature of the Sabbath.

Kerry on the other hand -- admits he is just making stuff up.

Seems like a clear contrast to me.

Thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob

[True-believer]

Does Kerry "keep" Sunday now?

Does he attend church, and if so, which one?

Have you ever read a book called The History of the Sabbath, by J.N. Andrews?

It's one of the best books written on the Sabbath:

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/history/History_of_the_Sabbath.pdf

Kerry attends a non-denominational pentecostal church.

[John317]

Kerry attends a non-denominational pentecostal church.

I'm sincerely very sorry to hear that, Luke. We need to pray that the Holy Spirit will open his eyes. Never give up hope.