True-believer Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Luke, as soon as you start your car you are igniting, or fireing, the sparksplugs of your car, because you have turned the iignition switch, that is just like starting a fire, God command was not to light a fire on sabbath day.Original Message ----- From: KERRY WYNNE To: vicki nikolic Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 12:29 AM Subject: Re: How this. Good observation, Vicki. Paul teaches that the LAW was given to Israel because it was such a stubborn group of people, bent on doing wrong. The LAW was given to them because,, in this case, they needed a "schoolmaster" to keep them in line. The Old Covenant was very clear about Sabbath breaking. Death by stoning was the penalty for picking up sticks on the Sabbath! At first God might seem a bit unfair to be so strict with Israel, but let us keep in mind that God appeared to Israel in spectacular supernatural displays at that time. He manifest Himself as a pillar of light that was continually with the Israelites. There was no chance for doubt about the existence of God and no excuse for disobeying His commands. If Sabbath keeping is required for Christians today, Christians can't use electricity because someone is lighting a fire at the power station. They can't drive a car to church because they are lighting a fire every time the engine cylinders fire. And what would happen to Adventists who gathered fire wood on the Sabbath? That would put a new twist on the concept of "getting stoned." Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vicki nikolic <nikolic@adam.com.au> To: KERRY WYNNE <k.wynne@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 3:06:49 AM Subject: How this. Hello Kerry, the sabbath keepers really perplexes me, when they have the sabbath keeping, they have light in there room, Now we know, that there is somebody at the power sation, making sure light is provided. When God said not to light a fire on the sabbath He meant NO action taken by anyone, so therefore all these people having sabbath are breaking God's Symbolic Law Deliberate, as small as this sound, they don't realize whets really evolved here. In my opinion this is looking very ridiculous by what they are doing, what is your opinion?. Do you in Australia. Vicki... Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
guibox Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 The problem here is that Kerry seems to think that this form of Sabbath keeping was God's ideal, that times don't change. Israel was a theocratic society where the people had different rules and reasons for following what they did. We are not a theocratic society and I don't believe that we are called to live or follow the rules they had back then. Trying to apply the way a set apart, theocratic nation 4000 years ago kept rules and regulations to apply to us today is ludicrous. Kerry would be hard pressed to find any Jews today that follow the Sabbath that strictly...and yet the Sabbath is still followed. The strictness of the Sabbath millenia ago is not a cause for Sabbath abrogation. Just because the Sabbath served a specific function for a specific people in no way makes it invalid for us. Christ came and turned that legalistic way of thinking on it's head. It was not God's ideal. Christ came and summed up the Sabbath: It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. That is what he did. The Pharisees made the Sabbath a heavy burden of ludicrous rules. That doesn't mean that this was how Sabbath was meant to be kept. Quote www.corbel.theacaistory.com
Moderators Gerr Posted March 7, 2009 Moderators Posted March 7, 2009 I suggest we go back and read that story again. Was it the gathering of sticks that was the sin? Or was it the attitude towards a specific command? How much work do you think it would require to find enough sticks to build a fire in a barren land? Quote
True-believer Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 I suggest we go back and read that story again. Was it the gathering of sticks that was the sin? Or was it the attitude towards a specific command? How much work do you think it would require to find enough sticks to build a fire in a barren land? Whenever I read the story it states very clearly it is the attitude towards the specific command and not the picking up of sticks. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Luke, as soon as you start your car you are igniting, or fireing, the sparksplugs of your car, because you have turned the iignition switch, that is just like starting a fire, God command was not to light a fire on sabbath day. That is the most pitiful argument against Sabbath-keeping I have ever heard. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Neil D Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: Luke Adam Goss Luke, as soon as you start your car you are igniting, or fireing, the sparksplugs of your car, because you have turned the iignition switch, that is just like starting a fire, God command was not to light a fire on sabbath day. That is the most pitiful argument against Sabbath-keeping I have ever heard. You are correct, Catherine...but for a legalist with a legalist mind set, this is the logical outcome. Because we insist on "keeping the Sabbath", a legalist thinks of all the rules to keep regarding the Sabbath. Even down to opening the referator and not allowing the light on in the fridge. [reason: someone at the dam is working to produce YOUR electricity] And there is a Jew, modern day Jew, who does keep the Sabbath rules that strictly. The Orthodox Jew. ....Having said all that, we have a better plan regarding the Sabbath that is from God...a time set aside for a date with the Lord of the Universe.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 We are coming close to a time change. I believe it is this weekend or next. And the legalist refuses to do the time change on that basis of belief that it is wrong to think of changing times and laws. HA HA HA ... HE HE HE ... HO HO HO Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BobRyan Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 The "don't light a fire" statement was made when they were in the desert - and had a pillar of fire by night. It made perfect sense. But once they got to Canaan and had winters that were indeed cold - they had fires every day -- yes even on Sabbath. To light a fire when one wasn't even needed - was Sabbath breaking then -- and now. But Kerry is FAR from "keeping Sabbath except for when he starts his car". That hollow argument is simply random shots at the wall to see if something will finally stick. next. BTW - since "Kerry" has no real interest in Bible study - why does this go on and on and on? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 That hollow argument is simply random shots at the wall to see if something will finally stick. I LOVE that description! It is so accurate, but also very, very funny! I will have to remember it, and hopefully to find a good place to use it someday! Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
guibox Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 To light a fire when one wasn't even needed - was Sabbath breaking then -- and now.Bob Care to explain this comment, Bob? If it is the amount of 'work' that entails to light a fire, I could find a dozen things that you probably do every Sabbath that requires much more 'effort' to do. If it is because 'there is no need to light the fire', then 'breaking the Sabbath' is more about frivolity than actual 'work'. By these accounts, Jesus healing and the disciples plucking grain would indeed have been breaking the Sabbath. Jesus came not to further the legalism of the 'dos and don'ts' of agregious Sabbath keeping practices. Why should we continue to do so? Quote www.corbel.theacaistory.com
Members phkrause Posted March 7, 2009 Members Posted March 7, 2009 Neil just because Jews observe the Sabbath the way they do, doesn't mean that they are keeping it legalisticly. They could be doing this from the bottom of there heart. They obviously having been taught to do this way just as SDAs have been keeping the sabbath there way. Some legalistic, others not. Only God knows the heart. But I do understand what you are saying. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
SivartM Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 If Ned down at the power station wants to keep the Sabbath, he can arrange his schedule accordingly or get a new job. If he doesn't want to keep the Sabbath, he'll break it whether he's at the power station or not. If the whole world kept the Sabbath, we'd probably have everything totally automated by now. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
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