Oregon Senate approves Thomas Paine Day

[Amelia]

Oregon Senate approves Thomas Paine Day

Friday, March 6, 2009

Associated Press

SALEM, Ore. (AP) -- The state Senate this week voted to designate Jan. 29 as Thomas Paine Day in Oregon.

Paine, who was born that day, is best known for his 1776 pamphlet "Common Sense," which made the case for American independence.

Sen. Brian Boquist sponsored Senate Bill 367, which now moves to the House.

According to the Statesman Journal newspaper, the Republican quoted Paine's observation: "That government is best which governs least."

But Paine also raised questions about organized religion, opposed slavery, and supported free public education and a guaranteed minimum income.

A similar bill stalled in Arkansas earlier this year, when some lawmakers criticized Paine's writings as anti-religion.

[Woody]

According to Ellen White ... he's goin' to HE double L.

Quote:

"IF SUCH A MAN AS PAINE COULD FIND ENTRANCE TO HEAVEN AND BE HIGHLY HONORED THERE, ANY SINNER, WITHOUT A REFORMATION OF LIFE AND WITHOUT FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, COULD FIND ADMITTANCE." EW 301

[Cosmin M.]

Took me a bit to make this..... BTW that is me right now...

[Woody]

How much do you have?

[SivartM]

Did Thomas Paine have any common sense?

[Cosmin M.]

Redwood,

What do you mean? How do much do I have of what?

SivartM,

Maybe.... Maybe not.

[Woody]

Common Sense Cos. It's Common Sense.

[Bravus]

EGW, wrong again.

[Woody]

teehe

[SivartM]

EGW, wrong again.

Why?

[Bravus]

"But Paine also raised questions about organized religion, opposed slavery, and supported free public education and a guaranteed minimum income."

And EGW said he's damned. Translation: be right-wing or go to hell. 'Fraid not. (Incidentally, this was before the over-simplistic classifications we have today, so he could hold those opinions and also be for small government.)

[SivartM]

"But Paine also raised questions about organized religion, opposed slavery, and supported free public education and a guaranteed minimum income."

And EGW said he's damned. Translation: be right-wing or go to hell. 'Fraid not. (Incidentally, this was before the over-simplistic classifications we have today, so he could hold those opinions and also be for small government.)

So you think he'll probably be in heaven?

[aldona]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

"But Paine also raised questions about organized religion, opposed slavery, and supported free public education and a guaranteed minimum income."

And EGW said he's damned. Translation: be right-wing or go to hell. 'Fraid not. (Incidentally, this was before the over-simplistic classifications we have today, so he could hold those opinions and also be for small government.)

So you think he'll probably be in heaven?

That's something that only God knows. I don't think any human being - even Mrs White - can make the call as to whether another human is headed for salvation or destruction.

Besides, if opposing slavery is one of the criteria for going to h%ll, then we are likely to find people like Wilberforce there.

And if raising questions about organized religion is a one-way ticket to the hot place, then Jesus Himself would not stand a chance.

Thank God that salvation is not influenced by our publicly expressed religious and political views.

aldona

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

So you think he'll probably be in heaven? [/quote']

That's something that only God knows. I don't think any human being - even Mrs White - can make the call as to whether another human is headed for salvation or destruction.

Besides, if opposing slavery is one of the criteria for going to h%ll, then we are likely to find people like Wilberforce there.

And if raising questions about organized religion is a one-way ticket to the hot place, then Jesus Himself would not stand a chance.

Thank God that salvation is not influenced by our publicly expressed religious and political views.

aldona

I don't think Ellen White doubted his salvation because he opposed slavery. And from what I know of him I don't think "raising questions about organized religion" is the most accurate way to word his problem.

[Dottie]

Is that the only part of the quote by EGW? Isn't there more context? It doesn't explain adequately what exactly she found wrong with him. I've always heard that she said he wouldn't go to heaven, but that's not enough to know exactly why? ? ?

[Woody]

Not sure what you are after but the quote is quite clear. And Ellen White has quite a history of telling us who will be lost and who will be saved. Check out previous threads to find the list of names.

[Cosmin M.]

Common Sense Cos. It's Common Sense.

I have more Common Sense then this guy...

[Woody]

I'm goin' to have to have a little talk with you Cos.

[Cosmin M.]

Oh boy. Can't wait.

[John317]

I don't think Ellen White doubted his salvation because he opposed slavery. And from what I know of him I don't think "raising questions about organized religion" is the most accurate way to word his problem.

Two quotes from the Spirit of Prophecy:

This should be enough to remove the vail from every mind and discover unto them the dark, mysterious works of satan;--that he has got one whom he loved so well, and who hated God so perfectly, with the holy apostles and angels in glory: virtually saying to the world and infidels, No matter how wicked you are; no matter whether you believe in God or the Bible, or disbelieve; live as you please, heaven is your home;--for every one knows that if Thomas Paine is in heaven, and so exalted, they will surely get there. This is so glaring that all may see if they will. Satan is doing now what he has been trying to do since his fall, through individuals like Thomas Paine. He is, through his power and lying wonders, tearing away the foundation of the Christian's hope, and putting out their sun that is to lighten them in the narrow way to heaven. He is making the world believe that the Bible is no better than a story-book, uninspired, while he holds out something to take its place; namely, Spiritual Manifestations! Supplement to the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White (1854), page 9, paragraph 2

I feel the most intense anguish for our youth. I warn you, as one who knows the danger, not to be entrapped by Satan through the little knowledge of science which you may have acquired. It is better to have a pure and humble heart than all the knowledge you can possibly gain without the fear of the Lord. The youth of today will be likely to meet skeptics and infidels wherever they may go, and how necessary that they be equipped, so that they may be able to give a reason of their hope with meekness and fear. Thomas Paine has passed into his grave, but his works live to curse the world, and those who doubt the truth of God's word, will place these infidel productions in the hands of the young and inexperienced, to fill their hearts with the poisonous atmosphere of doubt. The spirit of Satan works through wicked men to carry on his schemes for the ruin of souls. The Signs of the Times , April 21, 1890, paragraph 4; on the danger of skepticism.

[phkrause]

I think those quotes put that into a little better perspective. At least for me it does. From that it seems she really is not saying that he is not going to be in heaven but that at that moment he is not there. It does seem to me that if people believe that if so in so is in heaven well it doesn't matter what I do I'll will be there no matter what.

pk

[BobRyan]

John provides this quote

Quote:

This should be enough to remove the vail from every mind and discover unto them the dark, mysterious works of satan;--that he has got one whom he loved so well, and who hated God so perfectly, with the holy apostles and angels in glory: virtually saying to the world and infidels, No matter how wicked you are; no matter whether you believe in God or the Bible, or disbelieve; live as you please, heaven is your home;--for every one knows that if Thomas Paine is in heaven, and so exalted, they will surely get there. This is so glaring that all may see if they will. Satan is doing now what he has been trying to do since his fall, through individuals like Thomas Paine. He is, through his power and lying wonders, tearing away the foundation of the Christian's hope, and putting out their sun that is to lighten them in the narrow way to heaven. He is making the world believe that the Bible is no better than a story-book, uninspired, while he holds out something to take its place; namely, Spiritual Manifestations! Supplement to the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White (1854), page 9, paragraph 2

I feel the most intense anguish for our youth. I warn you, as one who knows the danger, not to be entrapped by Satan through the little knowledge of science which you may have acquired. It is better to have a pure and humble heart than all the knowledge you can possibly gain without the fear of the Lord. The youth of today will be likely to meet skeptics and infidels wherever they may go, and how necessary that they be equipped, so that they may be able to give a reason of their hope with meekness and fear. Thomas Paine has passed into his grave, but his works live to curse the world, and those who doubt the truth of God's word, will place these infidel productions in the hands of the young and inexperienced, to fill their hearts with the poisonous atmosphere of doubt. The spirit of Satan works through wicked men to carry on his schemes for the ruin of souls. The Signs of the Times , April 21, 1890, paragraph 4; on the danger of skepticism.

1. I don't think the point Ellen White is making is that "Thomas Pain like the Apostle Paul is not awake while in death". I think she is making the point that Pain is sooo wicked that any presentation of him AS IF he too is saved undermines and clouds the distinction between the wicked and the saints.

2. It appears that Ellen White is claiming that Apostles also will be made as if to appear at the end of time - SHE does Not say of them "that this is a great sign for if Paul can make it then anyone can make it". Her argument is not that sins in this life can not be forgiven - -her argument is "It is appointed unto man ONCE to die and THEN comes the judgment" for "We must ALL stand before the Judgment seat of Christ" 2Cor 5:10. Her argument is "Be not deceieve" about the wicked "not inheriting eternal life" as Paul also points out in 1Cor 6 and Romans 2.

3. So then when satan presents the case of Pain - and argues that the wicked DO get eternal life just like the saints - he has destroyed the Gospel entirely.

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Amelia ... look what you've started.