Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 Should we kick out all of the illegals from our country? My feeling would be no but I thought I would see what the rest of you thought. I think we should only kick out those illegals who are law abiding. Those who have disobeyed our laws while here ... I think we should keep them and provide them lodging and bread and water. Just my idea ... Quote: "There are needy close by us; the suffering are in our very borders. We must try to help them. By the grace of Christ, the sealed fountains of earnest, Christlike work are to be unsealed. In the strength of Him who has all strength we are to work as we have never worked before." Ellen White --Manuscript 65b, 1898. We can't solve all the problems of the world. But we can help those within our borders legally and who are law abiding. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted March 15, 2009 Moderators Posted March 15, 2009 Just take a moment to imagine what it would take to find, round up and deport 12 million people. Some of whom would resist. It would be a larger and more violent undertaking than rounding up the Jews in WWII Europe. **I'm *not* saying the goals are the same or the moral force is the same, not at all. I'm simply talking about the scope and the logistics.** It has the potential to become something awfully close to a civil war. OK, technically, since they're not citizens, it's not a civil war. But in its effects on citizens it'd be the same. Is America ready for the sight of armed men dragging women and children out of their homes and onto trucks? Quote Truth is important
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2009 Members Posted March 15, 2009 I think Redwood that Bravus brings up a good point about kicking out or rounding up all the illegal's to send them home. I do believe we should help those that are in need no matter who they are. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Author Posted March 15, 2009 Good things take time. We could start with the beginning of the alphabet. We could also start by enforcing the law by prosecuting those that we stumble across. It would be a good goal. Not that it would be easy and quick. But we are a strong nation and we can work hard at it. It is far cheaper to do that than the alternative. And if we just stopped the flow of money to them .... they would be leaving in droves. Just think of how we could care for those within our borders like Ellen White is saying. WE could really do a good job of that if we didn't have to support the illegals. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2009 Members Posted March 15, 2009 You also make a good point redwood, and it makes a lot of sense. But to do this I think will be very costly. Maybe those bonuses could go for this instead of giving more bonuses to useless upper management personal that just drive there companies into the ground and make millions and still want there bonuses or they will quit. I say let them quit, we're better of without them. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted March 15, 2009 Author Posted March 15, 2009 It is FAR less costly than supporting an illegal. Do you realize how much we pay to support and keep them illegals here? We have to house, feed and educate them ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2009 Members Posted March 15, 2009 I second that! pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Bravus Posted March 15, 2009 Moderators Posted March 15, 2009 Um, no. They work. Think about how costly it would be to employ Americans to do those jobs (which, by the way, is what I think should have been being done all along) when adding up the costs. And then think a bit about how many hundreds of thousands of new immigration officials would need to be employed to do this work, whether slowly or quickly. There might be grounds to do it, but 'it's cheaper' ain't one of them. Quote Truth is important
Moderators Bravus Posted March 15, 2009 Moderators Posted March 15, 2009 Alternative proposal - amnesty them all and make them citizens, get them paying taxes. Voila, net gains to the treasury. Quote Truth is important
Neil D Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 It is FAR less costly than supporting an illegal. Do you realize how much we pay to support and keep them illegals here? We have to house, feed and educate them ... You are talking 'slavery', are you not? House and feed and educate them??? They pay rent with the money they recieve....they pay for the food they eat with the money they recieve....they pay taxes with the money that they recieve..... And they do that with a forged green card, driver's license, and Social Security card..And it seems to me that if you really want the illegals out of here, go after the employers, as they are NOT checking out their employees, and if they were to check the driver license and SS numbers, they would weed out the illegal ones.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2009 Members Posted March 15, 2009 What you are saying makes sense, but I agree it would costs to have people doing those jobs. And there are plenty of people available. There are 5 million unemployed they could hire, so we do have the man power. Besides with all the companies going out of business, there aren't 5 million jobs available anymore. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 1. Many illegal immigrants are going back on their own because the economy is so slow. Last year the amount of money being sent to Mexico from the US via wire transfer decreased for the first time since it has been tracked. That is because there are less illegals here now. 2. The illegals that are here pay taxes. They pay more than their American citizen counterparts. An American citizen working a low-paying job is going to file taxes at the end of the year and get all the taxes that were withheld from their check back. Since the illegal is illegal, they will not file taxes so the government will keep all the taxes withheld from their checks. Furthermore these illegals pay taxes every time the buy gas, use the phone, and make a purchase. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 So then Redwood's economic argument is fatally flawed. What other arguments are there for trying this impossible task? Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Huh? Nothin' flawed about it at all. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 If, as Shane says, all the illegals are paying taxes, how are you (which I presume means the citizens) paying to house and educate them? They're paying for those services themselves with their taxes. The illegals are contributing to the economy, not draining it. Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: If, as Shane says, all the illegals are paying taxes That would be one big IF. For it is simply NOT true. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 Evidence please. Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Evidence that what Shane said is not true? He provided NO evidence. And anyways ... it is common sense that there are some illegals that don't pay taxes. Comeon Bravus. Some common sense here would help, Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 Some, of course. Most or all, which is what you seem to be claiming... who knows. You're the one making the claim, you need to back it up with some evidence. Common sense will take us part of the way, but when you're contemplating an undertaking as huge as this, isn't it important to check out the most basic premise on which it's based? Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Wake up Bravus. You said that I had to prove that what Shane said was wrong. He never proved what he said was right. He had no references. And I was suppose to prove that HE was wrong. This was what you said: Quote: If, as Shane says, all the illegals are paying taxes Now you say you agree with me that not all are paying taxes. (You used some common sense) Case is closed. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 I'm such a softie, I'll make a start on your homework for you. Heaps of good info here: http://www.google.com/search?client=safa...-8&oe=UTF-8 From the first link on that page: "There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration." Read up, my friend. I'm afraid 'fundamentally flawed' was... fundamentally accurate. Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Wake up Bravus. You said that I had to prove that what Shane said was wrong. He never proved what he said was right. He had no references. And I was suppose to prove that HE was wrong. This was what you said: Quote: If, as Shane says, all the illegals are paying taxes Now you say you agree with me that not all are paying taxes. (You used some common sense) Case is closed. Like I said ... Case closed due to common sense being used. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Neil D Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Like I said ... Case closed due to common sense being used. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 Logically, I should have avoided using the word 'all'. I agree, that was inaccurate. Not 'all' of the illegals are paying taxes. But a significant proportion are. I don't think I said you had to prove Shane wrong. I just asked for the evidence to support your claim that illegal immigrants are a net cost to America, which is the whole basis on which you want them deported. When I looked at the evidence, I found that your basic claim is plain wrong. Case closed due to use of common sense indeed. Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 I never said what you are claiming. All you have done is to disprove what you have claimed. I had no part in this fabrication of yours. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
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