True-believer Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 www.heaventour.org/testimony The link above speaks from the Bible alone and also tells us of other people's near death experiences... For example... Eternal torment in hell... Life in heaven... Check out the link above and lets discuss this very troubling issue... This is something that ALL Christian Churches besides "Catholic" teaches from the Bible alone... Why??????????? Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
LifeHiscost Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 This is something that ALL Christian Churches besides "Catholic" teaches from the Bible alone... Why??????????? Perhaps you meant all but Seventh Day Adventists. The answer for many, if not all, is at least partially because they have believed the adversary's first lie. God said___"...but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Genesis 2:17 NASB "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"Genesis 3:4 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
True-believer Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Yes, why don't the Seventh-day Adventist Church teach that when you die you either go to a place of eternal torment called Hell or either you go to a heavenly place called Heaven upon death? Yes, I already know what most of you will say, but I have been struggeling in this area of doctrine for a very, very very long time... Why... Because I don't want to go to Heaven knowing my loved ones are in Hell in everlasting torment... Can someone please help??? Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
BobRyan Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Becuase when you die you go to a dormant state that the Bible calls "sleep". in 1Thess 4 Paul says "I do not want you to be uninformed about those who have fallen asleep". in John 11 when Lazarus dies -- Christ says "Our friend Lazarus sleeps - I go that I may wake HIM". in 1Cor 15 at the end of the chapter Paul says "We shall not all SLEEP but we shall all be changed". As you can see This is the clear teaching of the New Testament text. And it is the "best kept secret" among many Christian groups. But Adventists are very clear on all of our outreach that soul sleep is the condition at death -- not instant heaven or instant hell. There is a wonderful debate that takes place in Matt 22 where Christ PROVES the resurrection by arguing for the condition of "soul sleep" during death where the thoughts perish and all worship and praise to God ends until the resurrection. At death the spirit of ALL mankind goes to God. That spirit is then returned at the resurrection of the body when that person is no longer asleep in death - but rather a living soul. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Stan Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Take your choice... of what Jesus taught (John 3:16) For God so love loved the world he gave his only begotton Son that whosoever believes in him shall not burn in hell forever and ever (Man's version) or For God so love loved the world he gave his only begotton Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish... (The Jesus version) and (Romans 3:23) The wages of sin is everlasting life in hell (Man's version) or The Wages of sin is death... (The Jesus version) THOUGHTS?? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
fccool Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 But that was not the original question though. The original question was about the OBEs (Out of body experiences). These are very well documented and can can not be explained away as mere hallucinations due to the accuracy of the reported facts that people described after experiences were over. Many of these studies were published in the pier reviewed scientific journals. One particular study actually dealt with OBEs of blind people who were able to see everything going on in the room at the time of their OBEs. Which would mean 3 things. 1) These people somehow hallucinating and somehow accurate occurrences of events are pumped in their hallucinations. 2) They are actually experiencing what they did. 3) Satans faking their visions, while portraying accurate events taking place. THOUGHTS? Quote
SouthAfrican Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 I'll take the Jesus version, thank you. After all, He is my Savior, come to rescue me from eternal death. edit : OBE's cannot be explained at present. Quote
Members phkrause Posted March 18, 2009 Members Posted March 18, 2009 I always wondered about that also. I would go with #3 fccool. The reason I say that is, Satan can fake anything! I;m not sure he can see into the future. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
LifeHiscost Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 [video:] Sounds very much like man's best effort to explain the origins of life over millions of year. As to the scripture speaking about the spirit returning to God at death, it is my understanding, the word "spirit" used there is the same word in the original language that referred to the "breath of Life", that which God breathed into Adam when he was formed by God. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit)of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7 KJV brackets mine LHC " Remember him—before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well, and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit (breath) returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:6,7 NIV brackets mine LHC "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward"Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV I thank God, that, God forbid it should happen this way, but even through some stupid decisions of my own that could separate me from the Life Who is the Lord Jesus and all I would have to look forward to was the wrath of God, still in His mercy, for He cannot deny Himself, I would be permanently removed from the misery of this planet into oblivion. "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." 2 Timothy 2:13 KJV "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."1 John 5:12 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 I have read that some people have had nearly identical experiences when on drugs, though they did not "die." Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
BobRyan Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 www.heaventour.org/testimony The link above speaks from the Bible alone and also tells us of other people's near death experiences... For example... Eternal torment in hell... Life in heaven... Check out the link above and lets discuss this very troubling issue... This is something that ALL Christian Churches besides "Catholic" teaches from the Bible alone... Why??????????? The Catholic church invented - Sunday replacing Sabbath Immortal soul Purgatory and indulgences Infant Baptism Priests performing magic sacraments Praying to the dead Praying to graven images in church etc. SOME of those SAME doctrinal errors continue in protestant churches -- but not all of them. However -- when making the case sola-scriptura... none of them hold up. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Actually, the Catholic church didn't invent any of those things. It just brought them into Christianity. Catholicism is really just baptized paganism. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Outta Here Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I have a lot of really nice, spiritually-minded, Christ-serving Catholic friends. I think highly of them and am proud to call them friends. Quote
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 A person can still be Christ-centered and spiritually-minded, even if their church is teaching falsehood. God knows the heart, and He will lead anyone who seeks Him with all their heart and all their soul. That does not change the fact that Catholic doctrines are pure paganism, just renamed. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
True-believer Posted March 23, 2009 Author Posted March 23, 2009 The Catholic church invented - Sunday replacing Sabbath Immortal soul Purgatory and indulgences Infant Baptism Priests performing magic sacraments Praying to the dead Praying to graven images in church However -- when making the case sola-scriptura... none of them hold up.in Christ,Bob Protestant Christian Churches do NOT teach: Puratory and Indulgences; Infant Baptism; There is NO priest out the front, we are all priests in Christ; We never pray for the dead; We never pray to graven images in any Protestant Churches; Sunday has NOT replaced the seventh-day Sabbath; The Sabbath is now everyday in Jesus Christ 24/7--entering God's presence through His Son; We always use Sola-Scriptura; We believe in an immortal soul up until Revelation 21 when Jesus says, "And behold, I make all things new," and then unbelievers will then perish. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Moderators Gerr Posted March 23, 2009 Moderators Posted March 23, 2009 Quote: Protestant Christian Churches do NOT teach: Puratory and Indulgences; Infant Baptism; There is NO priest out the front, we are all priests in Christ; We never pray for the dead; We never pray to graven images in any Protestant Churches; All true. Quote: Sunday has NOT replaced the seventh-day Sabbath; False. Many Protestants claim Sunday is the New Covenant Sabbath, or claim that it is the new Sabbath because of the resurrection. Quote: The Sabbath is now everyday in Jesus Christ 24/7--entering God's presence through His Son; False. No Scriptural support. The Sabbath has always been a time-specific; always will be. Quote: We always use Sola-Scriptura; We believe in an immortal soul up until Revelation 21 False. God "ALONE has immortality," 1 Tim 6:16. Man has to "seek for glory and honor AND immortality," Rom 2:7 because he does NOT have an immortal soul. Quote: when Jesus says, "And behold, I make all things new," and then unbelievers will then perish. If man has an immortal soul, how then can it perish? Quote
Amelia Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Hiya True, Well it's been a while since I was an Episcopalian, the religion I was born into. And I attended a Presbyterian youth group for a time. I know for a fact that both of those churches practice infant baptism. The Episcopalians and Catholics pray to graven images in the form of saints. The Catholics do this too. Not only are they graven but they are also dead. So yeah, they do pray to dead people. Now the Presbyterians don't pray to dead saints or images that I can remember. Episcopalians believe in the immortal soul. Not sure where the Presbyterians stand on that. I have to admit that the whole time I spent in the Presbyterian church they never taught anything on the Sabbath, Sunday or Saturday, that I can remember. But hey, if you went to church on any day other than Sunday, you were looked askance upon. So I guess that made Sunday "THE" day. Both the Catholic and Episcopalian churches teach and practice indulgences. That's about all I can remember at the mo. Quote: Protestant Christian Churches do NOT teach:Puratory and Indulgences; Infant Baptism; There is NO priest out the front, we are all priests in Christ; We never pray for the dead; We never pray to graven images in any Protestant Churches; Sunday has NOT replaced the seventh-day Sabbath; The Sabbath is now everyday in Jesus Christ 24/7--entering God's presence through His Son; We always use Sola-Scriptura; We believe in an immortal soul up until Revelation 21 when Jesus says, "And behold, I make all things new," and then unbelievers will then perish. Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
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