Some EGW questions

[Guest truthseeker007]

I am struggling with the issue of Ellen being a true or false prophet of God. In general we could say that she measures up to the test of a biblical prophet, but there are details that do concern me:

- I ve heard that the first adventist people kept the sabbath on the wrong hours. When EGW asked her angel why God allowed them to be sabbath breakers for years, the angel said" ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet". I ve heard that she passed away without ever knowing the reason!...

- EGW claimed that in vision she travelled with wings to other planets. This sounds very far-fledged. I mean, God would have been smart enough to realise that such trips cause doubt and confusion among his followers...

- In vision she said that "They fell all the way along the path one after another, until we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming". Isn t this in direct contradiction with the bible which says that we don t know the hour of Jesus his coming, and only the father knows.

- Does EGW teach that we can overcome sin by our own strength?

- Why does EGW has a huge phallis symbol on her grave?

- She claimed that some who were present at a meeting would be alive when Jesus would return. This never happened. I know that adventist state that this is a conditional prophecy. But then we don t have a standard to verify her predictions. Why are there no real concrete predictions made by EGW that would without a doubt prove her to be a true prophet?

Well i am sure nobody is able to help me out here satisfactionally, but maybe you are able to convince me on some points. I know God s prophets are often not acknowledged and despised by this world, but on the other hand i also know that satan is subtile. Which means he can preach a message containing 99 percent truth mixed with 1 percent of toxic doctrines that destroy the whole basis of christianity, which is being saved by grace, being sealed by the holy spirit etc. I know the sda church teaches tangible doctrines and that is very helpfull when you want to know things, but maybe that is just not what God wants us to do. i don t know, i wish i knew

[BobRyan]

1. Are you a Seventh-day Adventist? If not then these questions are secondary -- the first set of questions should be in the area of doctrines that you find in the bible - that differ from Adventists and therefore - are likely to be different than something Ellen White affirmed as confirmed by God.

2. There are a number of incidents where Ellen White wrote corrective counsel in Australia regarding future incidents in America. Letter arriving often the day after or the week of the event in question.

3. Conditional prophecy is not always stated "with a condition" as you see in the case of Jonah.

4. Ellen White claimed to hear the day and hour of Christ's appearing - but never claimed to have that knowledge while awake or not in a vision.

5. We have no "angel wings in the lab" to see if they can in fact enable angels to travel from earth to heaven. Arguing a case based on "what we know about Angel wings" is arguing from the void of what we do not know.

in Christ,

Bob

[Key Guy]

Rather than address each individual point that you brought up (there are folks that can do that much better than I), I would like to share the simple aspects that work for me.

First, there will ALWAYS be room for doubt in anything. If you focus on the 'holes' in the Bible, you too can be a doubter of the infallibility of God's Word. There comes a time in everyone's life when he/she will individually have to decide on the anchor of truth for themselves. Nothing will happen of value until this basic philosophy is addressed. I have decided that the Bible will be my infallible anchor and will accept at face value what God's Word say to and for me. My main client claims the Bible is 90% accurate. He cannot tell me which 10% is wrong. His anchor is obviously weak and his life reflects that.

The same principle applies to Mrs. white. As you stated, her writings have clearly passed the Biblical test. Are there areas in her life or writings that could be considered 'holes'? Sure. We do know that we have seen issues be resolved as time goes on and there are fewer 'holes' now than ever before. I have chosen to trust even though I cannot presume to explain everything that she has written. Frankly, I cannot prove everything in the Bible either, but I have chosen to take God at His word.

Mrs. White was a messenger of God. She saw and experienced things in vision that were not literal body-presence things. Was she actually in Heaven? No. But she would have enjoyed the same perception while in vision. See saw future events that she could not recall immediately. Some she recalled later (when the timing was appropriate for her hearers), some she could never recall, like it was God giving her an inside secret that she would have enjoyed as a benefit to being that close to God. That would have been cool! Writers in the Bible saw things that they were not to share, either.

Lastly, just like the writings of Daniel were not understood until the right time, I believe we will be granted additional insights into Mrs White's writings when God deems it appropriate. Our faith will receive additional rewards.

As for the phallic thing, that's news to me. I have no clue nor would I jump to any conclusions quickly.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thnks Keyguy for your perception. I think we agree on these matters. Of course there are loop holes, and that s why we ve got to be very carefull. Sometimes things sound great and logical, but the information has a demonic source. Now as for EGW i really don t know whether to believe her or not. I mean there are great theologians and scientists who believe EGW received visions from God, and then there are also evangelicals who say that she got her visions from the devil.

But if we choose the evangelical side, it doesn t make much sense to me. A lot of em created their own pleasant gospel that fits the needs of men, and thus offer an easy path. I believe we have to strive and fight, i believe this is something Jesus ordered us to do.

About the wings-stuff, i believe that God adapts his messages differently to different kind of persons. I believe EGW had quite a childish worldview, she propagated racist views (don t try to argue this, i can come up with many many examples), spoke about angels who needed a golden pass to visit the earth etc. I think these visions were not actual happenings like you stated, but rather visions or dreams that God gave to EGW. But what i ve always wondered, when she was in vision, did she really talk with Jesus?or was this part of her dream/vision?

[Woody]

Hi TS.

With Ellen White ... if you don't know whether to believe her or not. Do as she says and test all that she says against the Bible. Then say the words:

"In with the Good ... Out with the Bad."

No need to take all that she says. Now the amount that you accept may grow over time. But then ... that is fine. No need to digest all of the meal at one setting.

But please don't reject all the wonderful things that you can find in EGW ... just because of some things that you don't fully understand ... or think are heresy.

[Key Guy]

There is a difference between what Mrs White said or did personally and the messages she received from God. God's messages are infallible but Mrs White wasn't. Every prophet has issues because they were weak humans.

It is not safe to project the weak humanity on the messages from God.

[Woody]

You are right KeyGuy. The messages from God are not weak. But the one who brought us the messages from God was not that perfect. Have you seen the originals of her books. She would add and delete so much that it is a wonder it all made sense. The originals show her crossing out and adding over and over again.

[Key Guy]

She was VERY serious about the accuracy of her wording and gist of the messages. God did not dictate to her word for word, so she had this tremendous responsibility to stay true to the theme.

I can imagine her on her knees pleading for a specific word or phrase to best convey the message. Heady responsibility.

I struggle often just here on the forum and have rewritten posts several times (then did editing after the fact), so I'm quite sure she had intense struggles, perhaps especially with the letters of correction written to individuals or groups.

[teresaq]

... she propagated racist views (don t try to argue this, i can come up with many many examples),

[phkrause]

Yes I'd to see those myself. Never read anything that she said that was racist. I do recall reading something about working for African Americans, same for Jews and others.

pk

[GoLions]

Originally Posted By: truthseeker007

... she propagated racist views (don t try to argue this, i can come up with many many examples),

please share. what i have read says the opposite.

I have seen this accusation offered on the anti-ellen white web sites. I think it has more to do with the words that were common for the time and have different meanings for today. Basically the examples offered up were really quite lame.

[phkrause]

Or just taken out of context!

pk

[Woody]

The 'N' word was frequently used in our church's writings and perhaps used by Ellen White ... I don't know. But it was used during her time. However I don't see how that makes her a racist.

[Kountzer]

Ellen White was a true christians, and those type of people have no time to be racist. They are too busy preparing for heaven. Some of the stuff that she said were perfectly alright in the accepted vernacular of that time. If someone said it now it might be considered offensive, but things have evolved some what in the last 100 years.

A lot of things and institutions, like Oakwood, would not exist without Sister White's inspired efforts to bring them about.

[phkrause]

When you say the "N" word Redwood, do you mean negro or the derogatory one. If you are talking about the later, I've never seen this in any books from EGW, or even other adventist writers.pk

[Robert]

When you say the "N" word Redwood, do you mean negro or the derogatory one.

I've have all her writings on CD. She uses "negro" 26 times. She doesn't use the derogatory one even once.

Rob

[phkrause]

Thanks Rob.

pk

[BobRyan]

The 'N' word was frequently used in our church's writings and perhaps used by Ellen White ... I don't know. But

Better to have an actual quote rather than tossing out a "perhaps used by Ellen White" when making that kind of accusation.

in Christ,

Bob

[Key Guy]

A lot of things and institutions, like Oakwood, would not exist without Sister White's inspired efforts to bring them about.

There is a book called "The Southern Work" that is very informative regarding the influence, messages and support of Mrs White for the spreading of the Gospel among Southern Blacks.

-----------------------------------

Paperback

96 pages

Copyright: 2004

Review & Herald Publishing

ISBN: 0-8280-1823-5

In answer to Ellen White’s historic 1891 testimony her son James Edson White began evangelistic and educational work among Southern Blacks, using a missionary boat that plied the Mississippi River. Ellen White produced an ongoing series of testimonies on this subject, which Edson gathered up and published in 1898 and 1901. This reprint of that work, with the inclusion of additional material, reminds us that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and one in the Spirit.

[LifeHiscost]

Better to have an actual quote rather than tossing out a "perhaps used by Ellen White" when making that kind of accusation.

in Christ,

Bob

Moses murdered someone. God used him.

David murdered someone, committed adultery, had 6 children by six wives. God used him.

Paul was responsible for uncounted deaths of the disciples of Jesus. God used him.

How many times must we stab Ellen White in the back before we recognize God has the right to use her as He wishes.

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand."Isaiah 64:8 KJV

"And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it."

Jeremiah 18:4 KJV

Regards!

[True-believer]

I have seen this dvd called, "Prophetic Inspiration", it is about how to test Ellen White to be a True Prophet of God, and goes through the Biblical Test...

Ellen Write did past that test of a true prophet...

Even though I am not officially affiliated with the Seventh-day Adventist Church, I do recognize Ellen White as a True Prophet of God, and this dvd has played a powerful part (along with the Bible) in me making that decision about her.

You can get the dvd at the conference office//bookshop of the Adventist Church.

Currently my life is so complicated with where I belong concerning my Christian walk and deciding my home Church. --Please keep this sentence in your prayers.

God bless you all on this forum.

[Haldog]

Actually, she doesn't meet the test for a prophet of God. Sorry.

[Woody]

Actually, she doesn't meet the test for a prophet of God. Sorry.

Could you expound?

[True-believer]

Actually, she doesn't meet the test for a prophet of God. Sorry.

Could you please explain what you mean Haldog?

[phkrause]

I'm also interested to see the proof of this statement!

pk