Lurkers

[Woody]

I noticed today that we have some lurkers among us.

One particular lurker has been around for four years and never posted. This is a cryin' shame. What can we do to get these lurkers out in the public?

Some time back it was Neil who went on a rant about lurkers. I will not do that. But what can we do to hear their voices?

Any ideas? (And don't tell me that I have to be nice to them. I hate being nice)

[GreatLakesGramma]

... and say we don't bite

dgrimm60

And you think they would believe that?

[phkrause]

When I first signed up I posted a reply and someone jumped all over me for what i had said. So after that I did the same thing for awhile. I think one of the problems that happens, is if we were actually face to face with the person that we are speaking with, they would never have the b___s to say some of the things that they say since you are not right there in there face. But after awhile I started posting again. And some are shy so they fill like they have nothing to offer, until they get there courage up. It took me awhile because of that also. So I think we should be patient with them. If we were in a face to face situation than we could go over and talk with them but since we are not in that situation we need to give them time. And some just are there to just check things out.

pk

ps: hope no one is offended with my use of b___s, I couldn't think of another way to put it. So I apologies for that.

pk

[Woody]

Well ... this is a good discussion if not for any reason than to let the lurkers know ... that we care about them and would love the opportunity to TRY to be nice to them. But, we are human and we might fail. If I fail you ... lurkers .... I give you permission to kick me in the rear. Just come and join in the discussions.

Please ... would at least ONE lurker be brave enough to come forward and show your face?

[Woody]

Yes dgrimm ... they could just come out and say HI . I am sure no one would object to that. Come on Lurkers. Come forward.

[Woody]

Bump.

I am disappointed that my call for lurkers did not produce even ONE hello from this part of the community. Have I lost my powers of persuasion? Look here looking lurkers ... we are looking for you and would like to locate you. Please come forward.

If this doesn't work ... I may have to establish a more aggressive approach. My next idea is a program called 'Love a Lurker'. Each of the regulars will be assigned a lurker. And that lurker will be hounded to death with Love until they POST.

[Morning Glory]

RW,

Since I am officially a member, and one can read my basic info, I probably don't really qualify as a Lurker. However, since I RARELY post, I would like to comment on this topic.........

I agree with pk about posting only to get your head bitten off, so to speak. I commented on a topic that I feel very strongly about a while back, only to receive a very curt, condescending response by the moderator of that particular forum. I considered responding to that mod, in that discussion and then by pm, however, having read of others experiences, I decided against that plan.

I finally came to the conclusion that the problem is HIS, not mine. A member should be free to comment and share their own opinions, even if they happen to differ from a "so called biblical scholar's" opinions without being castigated. I have decided that the best policy for me is to read anything that is NOT posted by that particular individual, and to stay away from his forums.

I am not a biblical scholar, as such, but I am not stupid in regards to what our church teaches, or in regards to what the Bible says.

It just seems like a lot of discussions have a tendency to go on and on with no end in sight, no agreement, but mostly disagreement. It gets tiring to read some the pontifications some post, others post statistis, etc, and multiple biblical referrences. I feel a bit put off by all of that and dont' feel drawn into the discussion.........esp with the specter of receiving the above type mentioned response!!

So, it is a lot easier, most of the time, to just peruse the discussions and then sign off.

Maybe that will give you a little insight as to why there are lurkers who do not wish to post......

Morning Glory

[Bravus]

Thanks for that, Morning Glory, and there are lots of excellent points there for all of us to consider. Let me say that I have enjoyed your posts.

I think the other reality we need to recognise is that this is just the nature of web discussion forums. They've been going for a bit over 10 years, and the established ratio just about everywhere seems to be 10% active posters and about 90% readers. I think 'lurkers' is a term with negative connotations, and was originally chosen in the context of chat and newsgroups rather than web discussion forums, which is one reason I prefer to call them 'readers'.

I think it's a perfectly valid form of participation to only be a reader. If people feel as though they want to be posters they should be encouraged and supported and not driven away, of course, but I don't think you can compel people who never signed up to be posters in the first place to post.

(there may well also be people who have signed up once and never come back, so the total number of registered usernames is probably not a good reflection of the number of regular readers. Stan probably has stats on the latter)

Guess it behooves us who post to remember the 'great cloud of witnesses' who surround us...

[Woody]

Thank you so much for your insight Morning Glory. I respect you so much. And I value your input into this topic.

Now ... what can be done with your insight?

I am going to have to think on that. I totally agree and can affirm your observation. I know it is real.

CONFESSION time: I have to admit that when I first came here ... I had the same observation as you. I was shocked. I didn't like it. I observed the same as you ... "pontifications some post, others post statistics, etc, and multiple biblical referrences". What bothered me was that I did not feel my words were fairly represented. It seemed they were purposefully picked apart in an effort to "pontificate". There was NO effort to find out what I REALLY meant. There was NO concern for that. They just wanted to attack.

Okay ... now the confession. I have to admit that I have conformed to the method of those on this forum. I think I have followed suit to some degree. Why did I do this? I honestly think it was just a matter of survival. The atmosphere here is not conducive to a respectful discourse. To do that ... one would have to be concerned for the other person. And that attitude would have to prevail. It can be done and has been done on other forums that I have witnessed and participated in.

What it would take is a 'safe zone' . I am not so sure that we have one functioning here on the Adventist Forum . Perhaps you could start one. I think you would be an excellent person to assist in that. I know for fact that you could do great job.

Interested ? Do you think it could work without being invaded by the rest of us? Just imagine a safe place to come and ask questions and share concerns and confess to your lack of knowledge in some areas that you might like help in. A person who would be a great ... and I do mean a GREAT assistant in this effort ... would be RUDYWOOFS. Wow ... talking about someone who knows how to do it and do it respectfully . Well ... I won't say more because you all know what I mean. But, there are a number of others here that I think could help.

And I want to hear from MORE lurkers and see if they agree on this. Maybe there are more out that that would voice if they would participate in such a plan.

So, you all ... speak up now. Let us know. This is your opportunity. What do YOU think Morning Glory?

[phkrause]

MG I think you should respond to the Moderator and let him or her know the way you feel. I would think that they will respond to what you have to say. I'm very sorry for the fact that you can't converse with others. And if like you say its the moderators problem than I think you should continue to post with others. I think you will find that you are missed and that others will be happy to see you post.

pk

[Morning Glory]

PK,

Thank you for your kind words. I know of ones on this board who were "banished" for speaking w/ that particular person, and I really have no wish to be involved in something as ugly as that........I will, however, give it some consideration.

MG

[Morning Glory]

Bravus,

Thanks for your comment. I realize that in an "impersonal" setting such as this that the kinds of comments, etc that happen take on a life and a culture all their own. I do, however, appreciate your comment about "the great cloud of witnesses" to these proceedings.......

Guess it should behoove each and every one to remember that no matter where we are, no matter what the situation, we are always being observed, and like it or not, we do have the power to influence those in our sphere: for good or evil.

MG

[Morning Glory]

dgrimm60,

Thanks, that was very sweet of you!!

MG

[phkrause]

I think if you don't you'll never know. But I understand. My main problem with posting has been those that like to bully, would never do that if they had to speak face to face. Anyway think about it and even if you don't directly speak to this moderator at least try to get back into posting.

pk

[Morning Glory]

RW,

You have given me much to think about. You have also thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak..........you have a way of doing that, you know!! I will get back to you on that........

I have observed your metamorphasis over time on this forum. "Funny" how that happens......I do not have the kind of time to spend here that you do, or I may have followed suit. Because of that fact, I am not sure about your challenge...

More later,

MG

[Morning Glory]

Considering........

[Woody]

RW,

You have given me much to think about. You have also thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak..........you have a way of doing that, you know!! I will get back to you on that........

I have observed your metamorphasis over time on this forum. "Funny" how that happens......I do not have the kind of time to spend here that you do, or I may have followed suit. Because of that fact, I am not sure about your challenge...

More later,

MG

Cool. I appreciate that you have seen my metamorphasis. It is real. I know. Not that I like it. I think you know ... I would RATHER have a reverse-metamorphasis. Perhaps ... a safe zone could be small and by invitiation only??? I am just throwing out ideas. I have no idea if any of this is possible.

Glad you are wrapping your mind around it.

[Woody]

Thinking more ...

The 'by invitation only' though would not help draw 'lurkers' who felt it was not safe to be here. And that was the original goal of this thread.

How to 'police' a safe zone is one thing I just don't have an answer for.

[Morning Glory]

RW,

Sorry that I took your thread off topic. Didn't really mean to do that, but now I see that I did. On the other hand, how about it if I PM you later after I have had some time to digest your suggestion??

MG

[Woody]

Oh. I don't see that you have taken it off topic. I hope I didn't say that. I think if you are comfortable with it ... you should feel free to post here. Either way. Whatever you are comfortable with.

[phkrause]

Well I did see that you at least posted on one of the threads. So keep it up. :)

pk

[Neil D]

Some time back it was Neil who went on a rant about lurkers. I will not do that. But what can we do to hear their voices?

Redwood....

I did not "rant"....Please note the difference between a "rant" and a farce....I never ranted against the lurker, as you are doing here....If I did 'rant' it was against myself, placing myself in a humorous impossiblity supported by extraordinary facts that bore little weight against anyone other than myself...

But since you are demanding the response of the lurker, I cead the responsibilty to you.

[Woody]

The invitation for LURKERS is still on ...

[Woody]

What we need is for them to "de-lurk"!!

I won't 'de-bunk' that theory.

[LynnDel]

All kinds of things can happen to discourage a lurker on that first post in a forum. For one thing, usually it takes a topic that produces strong feelings before it induces someone to share his or her thoughts on the internet for the first time. The strong feelings are very likely to be in disagreement with someone else on that topic; therefore you get the jump-down-the-throat effect.

I remember my first post here. I felt as shaky as if I were stepping up to a microphone in front of a crowd of well-dressed intellectuals. I'm too embarrassed to relate what I said, but I did get some people pointing out that I was an idiot (which could not have been true, of course), and then about a week later when I finally figured out a good response (typical time frame for me), I came back and the thread was gone. For a long time I felt personally insulted by Stan, thinking he'd deleted my post because he didn't like it, but later I realized that any number of things could have happened to that thread, and most likely it was not my post that was being singled out for such disrespectful treatment. I finally posted again in the forum, after about a year or so.

You and your software have long been forgiven, Stan.

LD