Obama & Torture

[Dr. Shane]

So should have President Obama released the details about the torture of the terrorists.

[Woody]

What torture?

[Dr. Shane]

Obama Publishes Torture Memos

Quote:

The US has published four secret memos detailing legal justification for the Bush-era CIA interrogation programme.

Critics of the programme say the methods used amounted to torture.

President Barack Obama has also issued a statement guaranteeing that no CIA employees will be prosecuted for their role in the interrogation programme...

It contained legal authorisation for a list of specific harsh interrogation techniques, including pushing detainees against a wall, facial slaps, cramped confinement, stress positions and sleep deprivation.

The memo also authorises the use of "waterboarding", or simulated drowning, and the placing of a detainee into a confined space with an insect.

Announcing the publication of the memos, Mr Obama said: "I believe that exceptional circumstances surround these memos and require their release.

"Withholding these memos would only serve to deny facts that have been in the public domain for some time," he explained.

But he also gave an assurance that "those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice... will not be subject to prosecution."

[Woody]

Personally ... I know of no torture to be disclosed. Vice President Chaney says there were none so I have to believe him. I assume that most of this talk is just from the left wing talking heads trying to discredit President Bush. Hey ... the election is over. Bush is no longer president. Can we let sleeping dogs lie.

[Taylor]

I hope you are right Redwood, but I am certainly not comfortable with water boarding no matter how long it has been used in the military.

[Woody]

One of the alleged torture activities was putting a catapellar in the cell of a terrorist. Give me a break. THAT is torture?

[Taylor]

lol that is funny! Of course, I suppose someone could be unreasonably scared by a catapillar...having some sort of weird fear of them.

Now if it was a rattle snake...I can understand why that would be torture. I went hiking yesterady with a friend and we saw three of them within striking distance...and one did try to strike me..hlpe us all...it is at those times one realizes how fast one can run or how high one can jump. lol We decided to leave the area and walk somewhere safer.

[Joe_in_RP]

Yes well you apparently don't know how poison a caterpillar is.

Quote:

Possible Symptoms

Some people experience severe reactions to the poison released by the spines and require medical attention. Others experience only an itching or burning sensation.

Also

Some species of centipedes can be hazardous to humans because of their bite. Although a bite to an adult human may only be painful, those with allergies that are similar to that of bee stings and small children are at greater risk. Smaller centipedes usually do not puncture human skin, while larger centipedes may cause anaphylactic shocks. Also, many species of centipedes are considered to be poisonous and therefore can kill humans with their bite.

This is no joke.

[Woody]

This was the harmless variety ... I am sure. But if in doubt ... just step on it.

[Taylor]

Good point Joe...there is no way of knowing till the report comes out as to what kind of caterpillar it was. There are also poisenous lizards that can kill you just as much as a snake's venom can kill. Those I have seen and knew a missionary who was bitten by one...and who almost died.

[Woody]

It just seems that a caterpillar is rather easy to defend oneself against. Unless they have a spitting variety.

[Taylor]

It just seems that a caterpillar is rather easy to defend oneself against. Unless they have a spitting variety.

No but if you have no shoes and nothing in your cell how are you supposed to kill it? Some caterpillars have a poisenous sting if you just touch them. (Now most are not deadly but I am sure some are.) But yes, this does seem a bit over the top in the silly department...but if it is a poisenous variety then that is a different story.

[Woody]

I guess one could take off yur shirt and squash it.

[Taylor]

:)

[Woody]

I admit that I try to have some fun on these serious topics and that can get me in trouble with some.

I do recognize that there may be some serious issues here. But on the other hand ... I feel that many of the issues are over blown.

[Taylor]

Personally ... I know of no torture to be disclosed. Vice President Chaney says there were none so I have to believe him. I assume that most of this talk is just from the left wing talking heads trying to discredit President Bush. Hey ... the election is over. Bush is no longer president. Can we let sleeping dogs lie.

I don't see it as a "Bush era" problem. I see it as a problem in policy. If we use toture ever, no matter who is the president, that needs to change. We can't complain that people use torture on their american prisoners, if we are willing to use any form of torture on our prisoners. We can be decisive and stand for liberty without resorting to acting in a way which we would not want used on our american soldiers should they ever end up as prisoners. So this is a policy issue that needs to be looked at, no matter who is president.

[Woody]

It is hard when our enemies use such severe torture such as slamming jets into high rise buildings. And no one mentions about their techniques.

[Taylor]

Hey that is wrong and just becuase it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it is condoned, but two wrongs don't make a right. I believe in justice but I don't believe in torture, no matter who it comes from. And yes the terrorist of 9/11 were dreadfully in the wrong. I don't hear anyone denying that.

[Woody]

I don't either.

[Woody]

However ... we are comparing putting a caterpillar in ones cell compared to slamming jets into buildings.

[Taylor]

I think we are comparing torture no matter what form it takes. I hadn't read anything about catipillars, specificaly, but I have read about water boarding, being locked in very small metal sheds with only one small window in dreadful heat (115+ degrees) with no water, (yes that came out in the news a few months back with documentation....scary), and then of course there is the case of Abu Ghraib prison, being naked infront of snarling german shephard dogs who are just itching to attack, stress positions etc etc etc.

I just don't think that we need to sink the to level of our enemy in how we deal with them when they are our prisoners.

[Dr. Shane]

Regarding the caterpillar, from what I understand it was not done but it was being considered. Remember it was memos that were released. The memos show that putting a caterpillar in with a terrorist suspect was being considered. The caterpillar would have been harmless but the terrorist suspect had a phobia of insects and they were going to tell him the caterpillar was deadly. So like waterboarding, it was psychological torture.

I don't have too much heartburn about releasing these memos. I do think the media has been going crazy over them. Most of this information was already known. There was no smoking gun in the memos. So it isn't really such a hot story as the media has made it out to be. If any damage is done it is that 1. Terrorist groups will use this information to recruit more and 2. Terrorist groups will use this information to prepare for capture.

[Taylor]

Exactly.

[Woody]

The question is:

If you could save a thousand lives by frightening someone ... what would you do?

I can tell you that these are hard questions ... but personally I have no doubt as to what Jesus would do.

Some on the left ... would call what Jesus did in the Temple as torture. I don't.

[carolaa]

You're absolutely right about the psychological torture issue. The government used psychologists to determine the best methods of doing that. Those psychologists should all lose their licenses, imo.

If this information has already been known, then the terrorists can already use it. No further damage has been done by releasing the memos. Oftentimes, the truth is less dramatic than all the scenarios put forth when it is kept secret. To me, the bigger deal is the progress it shows that the government released them at all. It's a small step toward more transparency and honesty.