To Reform or Not to reform?

[Shekinah]

Hello All,

I was recently doing a search for adventist sites when i came upon a couple of reform sites that alot of discernment said this is out of whack.I just want to throw the topic out here on reforming the church which if done within what we stand for is fine but do any find that the reformation seems to be a confused one?I believe the truth shall set us free buat the same time should we be looking for something new without considering what Gods will is.

[Shekinah]

Hello I've been Adventists all my life and am 47 and have been educated in Adventist schools,the issues I'm noticing is people trying to change but to an extreme that leavess out important parts of our foundation.

[True-believer]

Hey Shekinah...

I first heard about the SDA Church after going to the Reformed Church first... and I was very shock....

This is why I can NOT become a Reformed SDA...

1) I believe in open communion for all believers in Jesus;

2) I believe in open foot-washing for all believers in Jesus;

3) I am not legalistic;

4) Sunday is not the mark of the beast;

5) I do not believe the sda church has lost there way and the reformed church is the only true church;

6) I am only half vegetarian;

7) I am not a vegan--meaning I do eat dairy products;

I hope this helps Shekinah......

This is the Australia website of the Reformed Church that I use to go to before I swapped to mainstream sda church....

www.sdarm.org.au

The Adelaide Group in Somerton Park I was a part of from that website.

[Gerr]

What are being pointed out as objects of reform?

The ones I've heard before most vocally are: 1. Get rid of the Union Conferences, 2. Dump EGW, either as a fraud or at best relegate her to the level of a Billy Graham or McKnight or some pastor 3. Jettison the Sanctuary, 1844, and the Investigative Judgment doctrines

[olger]

The Advent Movement is a reforming movement. As to Sunday, yeah it IS linked to the Mark of the Beast.

Let reform begin in our lives today.

[Taylor]

Hey Shekinah...

I first heard about the SDA Church after going to the Reformed Church first... and I was very shock....

This is why I can NOT become a Reformed SDA...

1) I believe in open communion for all believers in Jesus;

2) I believe in open foot-washing for all believers in Jesus;

3) I am not legalistic;

4) Sunday is not the mark of the beast;

5) I do not believe the sda church has lost there way and the reformed church is the only true church;

6) I am only half vegetarian;

7) I am not a vegan--meaning I do eat dairy products;

I hope this helps Shekinah......

This is the Australia website of the Reformed Church that I use to go to before I swapped to mainstream sda church....

www.sdarm.org.au

The Adelaide Group in Somerton Park I was a part of from that website.

They also believe that only the 144,000 will be saved etc.

The Reformed SDA church has caused much harm to the mission of the SDA church. While we all need to "reform" and "become more like Jesus" and "well acquianted with our Bibles" we do not need to "split off the main SDA Church and join the reformed church."

[knockkneedchicke]

The Reformed Movements just like to denigrate the mainline SDA. EGW told about those kind. There is one thing that I can't figure out is why they are so mean. A loved one has left mainline and joined them. He is meaner than a snake now, just like the others. If they put as much time on their knees as opening their mouth they would be a lot better off.

[olger]

twue

[Tallmark]

There's a reform movement lead by Dale Ratzlaff. Their magazine is nothing but SDA bashing. I came out of a Catholic church. The leaders and most (not all) of their congregants are insane, but I'm not about to start a Catholic bashing magazine. Like the song of the 80's by Styx says: "T-t-Too much time on my hands".

[Daryl]

What kind of reform movement is being led by Dale Ratzlaff?

It can't be an SDA one as he is a former SDA.

[Woody]

Most of the reform movements that I know of ... are not SDAs ... they are former SDAs. But I do agree ... Dale would turn over in his grave ... if he were dead ... if someone called his ministry ... a SDA reform movement.

[Shekinah]

Good I see what I have put out here is making everyone think,not only that but to test the Spirits as we should be doing praise the Lord!!I believe it is imortant we build our faith rather than bash it with one another.I haven't read all that Ellen White has written as over the years I strayed as we humans tend to do,but when I was savd and before I was Baptised the Holy Spirit fiiled me for three months prior to that and convicted me in the truth.During this time I asked Him for reproof and discernment in all things concerning Him.

He did and He opened up a door I will never ever forget for the rest of my days.When Ellen White reffered to skyscrapers in her prophesy we have to remeber in the 1800's she herself didn't understand what she was saying as skyscrapers hadn't been built.We can then look at Noah who at the time was building a boat most likely in the middle of a lush forest where wood waas available and other materials needed,yet those around him tho9ught he was absolutely cookoo and a few fries short of a happy meal.But at the same time he was obedient in the Lord.When i opened patriarchs and prophets for the church and began to read I couldn't stop reading and what was written I understood completely and it not only confirms the word but it gives us further insight to God and His plan.

Further into my walk I began to understand God as I have never understood Him before He became more than what I have known of Him growing up as a child,this time it was personal and it involved more than bringing home my little friend and saying prayers at night He was speaking to me and showing me that He is alive!!Reform to me is like taking a orange,you dont like the peel so you remove it,well your left with the fruit itself.You then decide to remove the fruit and disect it,the juices flow out and run as you remove the skin untill you get down to the seed where the orange first started.Christ said the kingdom of heaven is as a mustard seed that eventually grows into a giant tree.Should we be chopping away at the tree?

If we go back and read of the 144,000 they were sealed out of the tribe of Judah,I dont believe this is the number of everyone who is recieved into the kingdom of heaven these are the saved from Israel as in Paul's letter to the Romans he says as salvation is for the Jew's it is the same for the Gentiles as our Father loves both and salvation is for all.We can change though and sometimes change is beneficial if it's Gods will for us to change within the church,this doesnt mean to throw out the conference or elders or whatever it may be one or the other thinks,but what does God think and what does the word say?What does Christ say when it comes to issues like the Sabbath?Obey my commandments He never excluded us from following guidelines but He saved us from destruction through His sacrifice.So many times I hear tht Adventists are legalistic when actually wwhat are we really?Are we Christians foolowing Christ as He said to do?When we get into reform we begin to cut away the very principles that come out of the word of God and out of Christ's example,we dont know who we are anymore.I choose to follow Christ and I choose to be Adventist because He has shown me what we stand for is inspired by God.Reform loooks appealing from the outside until i started digging further,its losing its luster.

[Shekinah]

I can agree with that,as well I cam across a gay Adventist site that is appended to the reform,which has always had me wondering about gay churches.How long does it take a gay church to get into the word and discover its sexually immoral or do they all have Bibles with those passages clipped out of them?

[True-believer]

The Reformed Movements just like to denigrate the mainline SDA. EGW told about those kind. There is one thing that I can't figure out is why they are so mean. A loved one has left mainline and joined them. He is meaner than a snake now, just like the others. If they put as much time on their knees as opening their mouth they would be a lot better off.

Hello Knockkneedchicke...

Its good to meet you!!!

[John317]

4) Sunday is not the mark of the beast;

What do you believe the "mark of the beast" is?

The Mark of the Beast.--When Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome, and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshiping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome,--"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast."--The Great Controversy, p. 449. (1888);Evangelism (1946), page 233, 234

When Seal of God Is Refused.--If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls "My holy day," you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God.--Review and Herald, July 13, 1897. Ev. 235

[melvin mccarty]

Sola Scriptura?....mel

[melvin mccarty]

Or not? Make up your mind...mel

[Woody]