Confrontational

[Stan]

Has anyone really figured out why some folks have to be so confrontational with others??

[Outta Here]

Yes.

[Woody]

Yes Stan .... I have thought of that issue. From what I have observed .... people like to flock to clicks/groups that they can identify. And from there they feel the power to exclude and attack others from a sense of strength. A kind of bully in a sense.

It has troubled me that this exists in the Christian community. But it does thrive there.

What saddens me the most is that for instance .... someone coming to this forum with a honest question will be immediately attacked with Godly wisdom rather than a listening heart. IOWs ... the two religious sides immediately go into their preaching mode and attack. The sincere poster is left in bewonderment on the side lines.

If only we could use the listening skills of Jesus. And respect one another. It would take a major overhaul on this forum. And it would take unity rather than divisiveness. A body rather than "conservatives" and "liberals".

[Dr. Shane]

Many times it is due to fear, other times it is due to an over-inflated view of self and sometimes it is simply an emotional response that is later regretted.

[Neil D]

Has anyone really figured out why some folks have to be so confrontational with others??

Sometimes there is a need for confrontation.

The person drunk with [insert vice] needs to be confronted from other loved ones and tell them quite frankly that they are on the wrong path.

Nico, when she first joined, had that ability to surgically write about the cancerous part in other members. Too bad during her later time here, she became abusive.

[Dr. Shane]

Confrontation is different than disagreeing. I disagree with a lot of people and quite often. I rarely confront anyone. Confrontation is when a person tries to convince another person they are on the wrong path. It is much more than just simple disagreement. When I do confront people I do not do it alone. In my job I sometimes have to confront architects, engineers or subcontractors and when I do this I pair up with another like-minded person and we confront the other party.

Confrontation is when we try to exercise our will over another person. It is a serious thing. We are in essence telling the other person that we know better than they do what is right for them to do in a given situation. It is a form of rebuke.

[Key Guy]

"If the shoe fits...." I'm trying it on.

This forum is composed of many different personalities. Most SDA's are SDA's BECAUSE they are independent enough to stand on issues, 'swimming against the current' of mainstream beliefs so to speak. If you are satisfied with being spoon-fed or buying into the teachings of others without questioning or studying to establish your core beliefs, then you'll float with current like the vast majority of humans. Having strong opinions is not a sin, in my book.

Now, if the charge is that discussions here are hate-filled, I would strongly disagree. Never once, even in the heat of a good debate, have I ever felt hatred expressed. If the charge is that more love and respect could be expressed, I would agree with my head bowed in shame because I tend to go overboard on occasion. Fact is, it's too easy to lose some tact and respect in a setting where you are not actually conversing, whether verbal or in each others face. I need to be reminded at times that there's a possible tender human at the other end of my DSL.

Did Christ confront and disagree? Yes. That is not the issue. The issue is common courtesy and we have to keep working on that. Never discourage another from forming an opinion and holding onto it 'til he/she arrives at a better one.

As for believing I may have a view that is right or may know more than another... Of course!! If I didn't, I would slip into the mainstream with the majority. Ugly thought.

The challenge is having a balanced mind: Closed enough to hold onto the core beliefs with all my heart, open enough to hear another position through to the conclusion before passing judgment of acceptance or rejection of that position in my life's philosophies.

I love the debates and discussions. I read more than I write (it's true!), even if I have a strong opinion on a thread. Many threads make me think - hard - and I've spent considerable time in trying to convert convictions into words on my keyboard, re-typing a sentence or phrase often (think how awful the first drafts must have been) to express my thoughts as distinctly and with as much clarity as possible in as few words as possible. Tough balancing act.

To conclude... if I were brash I would ask the opposite question; Has anyone figured out why there are so many wimps on this forum? Rather, I will ask; How can we encourage members to be more assertive, expressing their core beliefs, yet do it with courtesy?

[Twilight]

It is the essence of self to strive to rule over others.

We are all subject to the flesh.

It is only through Christ that this can be defeated.

Mark :-)

[Outta Here]

The challenge is having a balanced mind: Closed enough to hold onto the core beliefs with all my heart, open enough to hear another position through to the conclusion before passing judgment of acceptance or rejection of that position in my life's philosophies.

Well said. I do believe this strikes at the very heart of the matter.

Confrontation often stems from emotions tied to one's own beliefs. When there is disharmony between ideas and opinions concerning these deep-seated beliefs, one often feels a compulsory need to defend one's own position. It's not a matter of "I'm right and you're wrong." Nor is it a matter of wielding power over others. Rather, it is a matter of defending one's own stance. It is a personal matter. How uncomfortable it is when someone else's opinion (which differs from one's own) might have validity!

[Dr. Shane]

One can defend their position without being confrontational. In Biblical terms we call that giving reason for our hope.

This is the psychological definition for confrontation given on dictionary.com:

Quote:

a technique used in group therapy, as in encounter groups, in which one is forced to recognize one's shortcomings and their possible consequences.

This goes far beyond just disagreeing. A classic example of confrontation is two parents sitting down a child and explaining to him that his behavior is not acceptable. Another would be two elders from a church visiting a back-slidden member to inform them they are about to be disfellowshipped if they do not change.

I do see posts that are confrontational. These are normally posts that are trying to direct other members to apologize or repent for posting something they posted. They are posts that focus on the behavior of other members rather than on the topic of a given thread.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: KeyGuy

The challenge is having a balanced mind: Closed enough to hold onto the core beliefs with all my heart, open enough to hear another position through to the conclusion before passing judgment of acceptance or rejection of that position in my life's philosophies.

Well said. I do believe this strikes at the very heart of the matter.

Confrontation often stems from emotions tied to one's own beliefs. When there is disharmony between ideas and opinions concerning these deep-seated beliefs, one often feels a compulsory need to defend one's own position. It's not a matter of "I'm right and you're wrong." Nor is it a matter of wielding power over others. Rather, it is a matter of defending one's own stance. It is a personal matter. How uncomfortable it is when someone else's opinion (which differs from one's own) might have validity!

This is a very good point. I think that one of the difficulties on this forum is that we are SDAs. And of course .... SDAs have the truth and thus we are not good at looking at the merit of how ANY one else believes. This was the one thing that shocked me when I arrived here. My attitude was that most are sincere and the way we think has merit. God lead each of us step by step and perhaps in different ways.

This is heresy with some die hards. After all .... THEY have the Truth. And they are going to confront you and 'rebuke' you if you don't agree with their perception of 'Truth'.

I think we are able to confront the issue. But I don't think we need to confront the person. We are all 'saints' here. We are going about God's business. We don't need to attack one another.

This name calling issue is foremost in my mind. The forum moderators for whatever reason are not going to address it. Sure they may just eventually close down entrire threads or censure certain News agencies because one side is not able to handle certain news. But hey .... I think it is time for each of us to be responsible. When we see name calling .... we need to call it for what it is. And suggest more kind methods of approaching each other.

If we as members can't make this happen ... It ain't going to happen. Just draw a line in the sand and don't tolerate personal name calling.

Just my two cents.

[Stan]

Always correcting people and not backing down just makes them leave here.

Reread as needed.

[Woody]

Quote:

Nothing Will Atone for Lack of Courtesy.--Those who profess to be followers of Christ and are at the same time rough, unkind, and uncourteous in words and deportment have not learned of Jesus. A blustering, overbearing, faultfinding man is not a Christian; for to be a Christian is to be Christlike. The conduct of some professed Christians is so lacking in kindness and courtesy that their good is evil spoken of. Their sincerity may not be doubted; their uprightness may not be questioned, but sincerity and uprightness will not atone for a lack of kindness and courtesy. The Christian is to be sympathetic as well as true, pitiful and courteous as well as upright and honest. {AH 427.2}

Any negligence of acts of politeness and tender regard on the part of brother for brother, any neglect of kind, encouraging words in the family circle, parents with children and children with parents, confirms habits which make the character unchristlike. But if these little things are performed, they become great things. They increase to large proportions. They breathe a sweet perfume in the life which ascends to God as holy incense.

{AH 427.3}

"He who takes upon himself the work of judging and criticizing others, lays himself open to the same degree of judgment and criticism. Those who are ready to condemn their brethren, would do well to examine their own works and character. Such an examination, honestly made, will reveal the fact that they, too, have defects of character, and have made grave blunders in their work. If the great Judge should deal with men as they deal with their fellow workers, they would regard him as unkind and unmerciful." {ChL 59.2}

"Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye," the Saviour asked, "but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."--Review and Herald, Sept. 14, 1905. {ChL 59.3}

I would add though that at times apologizes are needed to be called for as with this example:

"Richard, this was an uncalled for statement. Both you and Icabod etal were having an awesome debate. Why the slur? I would like to see an apology given to ichabod. There are rules about besmurching another members character."

Amelia

If only the rules were consistantly dealt with. When any of us see name calling .... we need to stand up as Amelia did here. If we don't is just esculates into a long drawn out battle as witnessed between Neil and Bonnie.

We as members do need to step up to the plate and request that the combatants take their fighting elsewhere. When we don't do this ... we end up losing good members who just don't want to stomach the UnChristian display.

Personal attacks are against the rules and those who violate them should be told to go to their corner and do it in private.

Are we each willing to stand up and make this a better place for all?

[Stan]

Always correcting people and not backing down just makes them leave here.

Reread as needed.

Quote:

Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.

And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with – even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message

If you want someone, generally of the opposite sex to leave, just have a discussion with them showing they are wrong, you can make this happen faster if you do this for every post they make.

It does not have the same effect with folks of the same sex.

[olger]

Very good information, thanks.

oG

[LifeHiscost]

"

To conclude... if I were brash I would ask the opposite question; Has anyone figured out why there are so many wimps on this forum? Rather, I will ask; How can we encourage members to be more assertive, expressing their core beliefs, yet do it with courtesy?

Excellent post, KeyGuy. However you must realize the reason I say that is because I agree with almost all of what you say. My own maturity will be revealed when I say "good post" to something I didn't agree with but instead I believe it to be well written with very good logic, whether I believe the conclusion or not.

And BTW, the sting of ridicule or disdain, for the most part is largely of none affect when a person is confident of his/her place in God's plan of salvation.

"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward."Hebrews 10:35

KJV

Regards!

[Key Guy]

Quote:

And BTW, the sting of ridicule or disdain, for the most part is largely of none affect when a person is confident of his/her place in God's plan of salvation.

That is correct!

If we can't stand the 'heat' in a forum of mostly like believers, how will we expect to stand the slings and arrows, the highly personal and spiritual attacks of the representatives of our adversary. The term 'ridicule' will seem kind.

As you stated, confidence is the key to withstanding anyone's attacks.

[Kountzer]

People are confrontational on all msg boards, not just this one. It's just the nature of the beast. Msg boards allow people to say things to others that wouldn't dare say in person. You're isolated, hidden behind a pc monitor, at a safe distance from physical contact. Then you have the option of being anonymous. So you can drop whatever evil innuendo that comes to mind, and then later play coy about it. "who me, I didn't mean that"? It happens all the time.

Msg boards are limited and one dimensional. In the real world you have, vocalization, and all sorts of nuances of expression, body language, etc. We have five senses, we can feel, hear, talk, etc. If some one has an opinion or position that runs counter to what I believe, I tend to listen to how this person speaks, how he presents what he has to say. How he or she controls an audience. I can sit down for an hour and listen to a preacher who I don't agree with, if he or she is a captivating speaker. TD Jakes comes to mind. On sda oriented msg boards someone will always come along with some radical counter msg, they back it up with long threads filled with verses, etc. I don't have time to read all that.

If God gives a msg to a person to convey to His people, he is also going to equip that person with the ways and means to get that msg out. If the only place you see a new idea being expressed is on a msg board, chances are that msg is not about anything. DB

[Planey]

I usually only post things I would say to a person's face.

I have many scars and bruises.

Graeme

[Stan]

As I said before, if you want someone to leave just keep on correcting them.

One of the reasons why there are some available pews in Churches.

Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.

And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with

– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.

Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message

[Stan]

I usually only post things I would say to a person's face.

I have many scars and bruises.

Graeme

I understand.

There is a time to speak, and a time to keep silent.

[Twilight]

People are confrontational on all msg boards, not just this one. It's just the nature of the beast. Msg boards allow people to say things to others that wouldn't dare say in person. You're isolated, hidden behind a pc monitor, at a safe distance from physical contact. Then you have the option of being anonymous. So you can drop whatever evil innuendo that comes to mind, and then later play coy about it. "who me, I didn't mean that"? It happens all the time.

Msg boards are limited and one dimensional. In the real world you have, vocalization, and all sorts of nuances of expression, body language, etc. We have five senses, we can feel, hear, talk, etc. If some one has an opinion or position that runs counter to what I believe, I tend to listen to how this person speaks, how he presents what he has to say. How he or she controls an audience. I can sit down for an hour and listen to a preacher who I don't agree with, if he or she is a captivating speaker. TD Jakes comes to mind. On sda oriented msg boards someone will always come along with some radical counter msg, they back it up with long threads filled with verses, etc. I don't have time to read all that.

If God gives a msg to a person to convey to His people, he is also going to equip that person with the ways and means to get that msg out. If the only place you see a new idea being expressed is on a msg board, chances are that msg is not about anything. DB

I personally came to a deep understanding of Righteousness by Faith through a message board, so it can be positive. :-)

Mark

[Key Guy]

Quote:

I personally came to a deep understanding of Righteousness by Faith through a message board, so it can be positive. :-)

Mark, I'm glad you said that. I was just going to question the purpose of msg boards and forums if they are so prone to abuse and misunderstanding. Your comment brings balance.

I understand the value of posting information. But when it comes to sharing opinions and beliefs, that's where the problems arise.

On a related note: This was found in my morning studies (by accident):

Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you. Titus 2:15

[phkrause]

good post keyguy

pk

[Twilight]

Quote:

I personally came to a deep understanding of Righteousness by Faith through a message board, so it can be positive. :-)

Mark, I'm glad you said that. I was just going to question the purpose of msg boards and forums if they are so prone to abuse and misunderstanding. Your comment brings balance.

I understand the value of posting information. But when it comes to sharing opinions and beliefs, that's where the problems arise.

On a related note: This was found in my morning studies (by accident):

Originally Posted By: Paul speaking to Titus

Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you. Titus 2:15

Another:

Originally Posted By: Paul to the Galatians

When Peter came to Antioch. I opposed him to his face, because he was in the wrong. Gal 2:11

Was Titus perfect? No. Yet he was counseled to act with authority

Wasn't Peter also an apostle? Yes. But that didn't make him always right. Paul wasn't an original disciple, but that didn't make him always wrong.

When 2 people, who disagree, actually spend time with open minds to search for the truth, it will be found! How cool is that? There is only one truth, right?

The first and most important rule for myself is knowing this:

I am spiritually blind, it tells me so in the message to the Laodiceans.

So that means that when someone presents something that seems strange or new, I must first make sure that I am not hitting out with my walking stick...

We all have a level of spiritual blindness, we just need to remember that I think. :-)

We should remember as a people that as we draw closer to the end, our understanding of truth will converge like spokes on a wheel.

The most dangerous people though, are those that are trying to lead people astray purposely (I have identified a few that seem to make it their life work to "play" with people), or the people that think they have arrived at "all truth" and starting beating everybody up who does not agree with them...

Why is it that when we come into a "truth", we often feel the need to brow beat everyone into accepting that?

I know that I am in danger of being in the second group, unless the Lord constantly pulls me back into place.

Mark