Scripture Altering in Ellen G White's book "The Great Controversy"

[truth seeker]

Im going to present a clear example of "Selective Citing" in the popular EGW book "The Great Controversy". This misuse comes when only a portion of the relevant texts is cited. You can "prove" almost anything from the Bible if you are allowed to select verses or portions of verses as if they told the whole story. This misuse can be clearly seen in the following example I am about to present. What you will find is a deliberate deletion of words from verses in the Bible, by deleting these particular words it is made to appear that these particular verses align perfectly with SDA doctrine, but in reality they dont.

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To see this deletion for yourself, find a copy of "The Great Controversy", go to the 15th paragraph, of the chapter called "The Earth In Ruins" or "Desolation Of The Earth", depending on which copy of the book you have. Compare Ellen G White's and the editors quotes on Isaiah 24: verses 1,3,5,6. They were using a King James version of the Bible and you should carefully compare each verse, using that same version of the Bible. You will find that she quoted verses 1 and 3 word for word, but when she got to verses 5 and 6, she left out key words, which clearly disprove the SDA belief of an earth de-void of all men at Christs second coming.....as the end of verse 6 clearly says!.... "and few men left"

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Isaiah 24:1,3,5,6. Here is how it reads in "The Great Controversy" 1. "Behold the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." 3. "The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled; for the Lord has spoken this word." 5. "Because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. 6. Therefore has the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned."

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Isaiah 24:1,3,5,6. Here is how the Bible reads 1. "Behold the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." 3. "The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled; for the Lord has spoken this word." 5. "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the Everlasting Covenant." 6. "Therefore has the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Leaving out these 13 words that I underlined changes the whole story presented in these verses, the point is not whether the words are there, but whether the concept is there. By this example of "selective citing" of Scripture, it is clear that all the relevant lines of evidence have not been considered. In closing, please remember that these were God's Holy Words that were deleted, its shameful amd completely unacceptabe to put a period at the end of a line when God still had words to convey.

[Gregory Matthews]

Truth Seeker:

Sometimes it is not as easy to find truth as it first appears.

One of the issues that we face in reading the Bible is that Biblical passages my have a dual application. This is often true in the books of Isaiah and Jeremiah. A classic example of this is found in Isaiah 7:14. Here the prophet states that a virgin (could be translate as young woman) shall give birth to a child who shall be named Immanuel. In context that verse could can only be taken to apply to an actual child born to a young woman in the time of Ahaz. After all the prophet states that before that child shall be old enough to know the difference between good and evil the kings of Assyria would lanch a war agains Isreal.

Yet, in Matthew 1:23 the prophet applies that verse in Isaiah to the first advent of Christ.

[To be continued in the next post.]

[Gregory Matthews]

NOTE: I do not know if Stan has set a maxilmunm number of words taht one can post. In any case, for some time I can not respond beyond some specific number and at that point I have to continue in a second post.

Getting back to your comment: The books of Isaiah and Jeremiah, in context, often apply to what would happen on earth if Isreal filled the place that God had for it. A classic example of this is found in the passage in Isaiah 65:17-20 where it is stated that at the time of the creation of a new heavens and earth. In verse 20 it states that the sinner will die at a hundred years of age.

It should be noted that many of us would applly Is. 65:17ff to the second advent. Yet no one would suggest that in the New Earth, after the second advent, death would continue.

[To be continued in the next post.]

[Gregory Matthews]

That is the same issue that applies to your passage in Isaiah 24. That passage, as applied to God's promise to Israel if they filled the role that God had for them would certainly have people alive on earth at that time. EGW used that passage to apply to the time of the second advent. As such she made partially quoted the Biblical verse, but did not quote it is full.

One might argue that it would have been better if the GC had dwelt with it in one of the following ways:

1) Isaiah 24: 1, 3, 5a, 6a.

or

2) "The earth is also defiled . . ." Isaiah 24:5.

and

"The curse has devoured the earth. . ." Isaiah 24:6.

[To be continued in the next post.]

[Gregory Matthews]

But such an arguement is more an editorial argument than it is an arguement of what EGW wrote.

NOTE: It is due to my inability to post more than a specific amount or text that is why I sometimes do not post. But, I thought the issue you raised was so important that I decided to post the multiple responses that I have had to do.

[True-believer]

Interesting Truthseeker...

You raised some important points for us all to ponder.

[Kevin H]

The problem with this opening post is that the writer is too stepped in proof texts and tradition, and shows a complete ignorance of what Mrs. White claimed her job is and what visisons do and don't do for us. (And I can't really blame Truthseeker for not knowing, we as a church have been following the methods of Stephen Haskell in trying to make Mrs. White fit popular theology)

If you study the Bible you would discover that there are three correct ways of using the Bible. The first is exogesis. That is what the text means in it's context, literary, historical, geographical cultural etc. This is the most important way to study the Bible and a tool of the 20th century.

The second way is drawing analogies: Analogies are a re-applicaiton of the principles of the text to other situations. A prime example of an analogy is the reapplication of the primised child of Isaiah 9 that was to give King Ahab hope that before the child was weened that the kings he worried about would no longer be a problem, and applying it to another child of promise 700 years in the future. (Can you picture Isaiah saying "Don't worry king but in 700 years your enemies will not be a threat") Another example is in Daniel 2 it is talking about four INDIVIDUAL KINGS, and Daniel has 4 individual kings of import: Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, Darius and Cyrus. Starting in Daniel 7 it gets expanded to four kingdoms.

A third way is homoletical: or using the words of a text because the words fit perfectly the discription that you are trying to discribe. An example is when Mrs. White said that we are preaching the law the law the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa. David was not talking about the Adventist church when he wanted the hills of Gilboa to be dry. Analogies are not exact.

Prophets occasionally use some minimal exogesis. But they leave that job to us. Mrs. White keeps repeating that is our job to learn what the Bible means, but we are too interested in tradition to fulfill her command.

What prophets usually do are use the text either in making an analogy or using the words homoletically.

Mrs. White is NOT talking about the same thing that Isaiah is talking about. Isaiah is talking about events that surrounded the geo-political-spiritual events of Isaiah's day. Mrs. White was drawing analogies from those events to the millianiam and using the words of the destruction that the nations were facing back then to the situation of the desolation of the earth.

Mrs. White is doing no more and no less. And learning these three correct ways of using scripture we can become more aware of the scriptures and through them have more knowlege and a deeper relationship with the God of the Bible.

So burry your vendetta towards Mrs. White and develope a knowlege of the scriptures and the God of the Bible.

[truth seeker]

Gregory Matthews

Quote:

Sometimes it is not as easy to find truth as it first appears.

One of the issues that we face in reading the Bible is that Biblical passages my have a dual application. This is often true in the books of Isaiah and Jeremiah. A classic example of this is found in Isaiah 7:14. Here the prophet states that a virgin (could be translate as young woman) shall give birth to a child who shall be named Immanuel. In context that verse could can only be taken to apply to an actual child born to a young woman in the time of Ahaz. After all the prophet states that before that child shall be old enough to know the difference between good and evil the kings of Assyria would lanch a war agains Isreal.

Yet, in Matthew 1:23 the prophet applies that verse in Isaiah to the first advent of Christ.

I am very much aware of dual application, and the many examples of it in the Bible.

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Getting back to your comment: The books of Isaiah and Jeremiah, in context, often apply to what would happen on earth if Isreal filled the place that God had for it. A classic example of this is found in the passage in Isaiah 65:17-20 where it is stated that at the time of the creation of a new heavens and earth. In verse 20 it states that the sinner will die at a hundred years of age.

It should be noted that many of us would applly Is. 65:17ff to the second advent. Yet no one would suggest that in the New Earth, after the second advent, death would continue.

First off Isaiah 65:17-20 are not conditional Prophecy verses. Verse 17 tells us what will happen after the Millennial Kingdom on earth, Verse 17. "For behold, I create new heavens and a new Earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." This Scripture, as given by the Holy Spirit through Isaiah, leaps ahead, even beyond the coming Millennium, to the time of the "new heavens and new earth" The phrase "And the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind," means that the Glory of the new heavens and Earth will be such that the absolving of the former ones will not only not be regretted, but will not even be had in remembrance. No one will so much as even think of them. The Millennial Kingdom is the beginning of God's Everlasting Kingdom. Now continuing on to verse 18. "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy." Whereas the Holy Spirit in verse 17 spoke of the coming "new heavens and new Earth," now He, through Isaiah, beginning with this verse and continuing through the end of the chapter, proclaims the Glory of the coming Kingdom Age, when Christ will reign Personally and supremely from Jerusalem. Actually, this is the reason that "Jerusalem" will be a city of "rejoicing, and her people a joy." And yes there still will be death in the Millennial Kingdom. Isaiah 65: 17-20 is a un-conditional Prophecy.

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That is the same issue that applies to your passage in Isaiah 24. That passage, as applied to God's promise to Israel if they filled the role that God had for them would certainly have people alive on earth at that time. EGW used that passage to apply to the time of the second advent. As such she made partially quoted the Biblical verse, but did not quote it is full.

One might argue that it would have been better if the GC had dwelt with it in one of the following ways:

1) Isaiah 24: 1, 3, 5a, 6a.

or

2) "The earth is also defiled . . ." Isaiah 24:5.

and

"The curse has devoured the earth. . ." Isaiah 24:6.

Again, as in your last example this is not a conditional Prophecy. Isaiah 24: 1-12 speaks of The Tribulation: Chaos, Waste, Judgement. Verse 13-15 The Jewish Remnant Rejoices. Verse 16-22 A New Age Following Judgement. And Verse 23 The Millennial Reign Of The Messiah. 23. "Then the moon shall be confounded and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of Hosts shall reign in Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously." The Chapter closes with the Glorious promise of the coming Kingdom Age. This is un-conditional Prophecy!

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But such an arguement is more an editorial argument than it is an arguement of what EGW wrote.

You have to keep in mind that EGW is the Author of " The Great Controversy" or at least thats what it says on my copy. Ellen White knew exactly what she was writing in the paragraph, she had no other choice, but to leave out these words , otherwise the beginning of her paragraph would not align, if she quoted the Verses entirely. Another speculation without Scriptual proof (in "The Great Controversy") can be seen two pages later(page 559 in my copy)......On the bottom of that page, in my copy it reads.....Footnote #12....."Genesis 1: 2; the word here translated "deep" is the same that in Revelation 20: 1-3 is rendered "bottomless pit." Thats not the rendering my Strongs Concordance gives. I have posted my complete study on the Millennium in the "Theological Talk" section of this forum. I will also be adding my study on the bottom less pit in that same section. God Bless to everyone, John.

[LifeHiscost]

"the SDA belief of an earth de-void of all men at Christs second coming....."

I've been an Adventist for close to 40 years and have never heard of the doctrine you indicate, by any Christian, let alone Adventists. Perhaps you are speaking of another coming or the aftermath of His second coming. It's not a point our salvation depends upon, so seems to me to be a moot point.

BTW, if you would spend more time making effort to lead people to Jesus instead of picking His servants apart, you might find greater joy in His presence in your own life.

If you are truly a truthseeker, you will find more truth by reading the Scriptures and asking for the guidance of the Holy Spirit than you ever will by depending upon the guidance of men.

Anyone who uses their efforts to get you to disbelieve the Words of the Scriptures, is leading you away from the Words of Life.

"“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

So bury your vendetta towards Mrs. White and develop a knowledge of the scriptures and the God of the Bible.

"sufficient to the disciple that he may be as his teacher, and the servant as his lord; if the master of the house they did call Beelzeboul, how much more those of his household?" Matthew 10:25 YLT

Blessings!

[truth seeker]

Kevin H

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The problem with this opening post is that the writer is too stepped in proof texts and tradition, and shows a complete ignorance of what Mrs. White claimed her job is and what visisons do and don't do for us. (And I can't really blame Truthseeker for not knowing, we as a church have been following the methods of Stephen Haskell in trying to make Mrs. White fit popular theology)

I have a copy of Stephan Haskell's book "The Cross and it's Shadow" and have read through it. Your quote....

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(And I can't really blame Truthseeker for not knowing, we as a church have been following the methods of Stephen Haskell in trying to make Mrs. White fit popular theology)

this doesnt pertain to me.....but this part of your quote says it clearly.....

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"in trying to make Mrs. White fit popular theology"

Heres a little info about myself , I was a second generation Adventist of 30 plus years, but then..... 2 years ago, by the leading of my Creator, I was lead to do a thorough study on Revelation 20:1-3, EG White, and some of the unique SDA doctrines. This all came about at the same time that I had ordered a dozen copies of "Last Day Events" by EGW and was in the process of giving them out to friends and family. My heavenly Father had a different plan! First I was lead to study Revelation 20, specificly the binding of satan and what that exactly meant.. I spent over 2 months studying every resource available, the majority of the study was using the Bible and my Strongs Concordance. I ended up with a 20 page study guide that I have shared with at least 800 people (Via email and 100 copies I had made in a booklet form.) A new truth had been revealed to me and I had to share it with as many people as possible! And once again, if anyone here wants a copy of that study, I can send it via email, contact me at jwjgbw@yahoo.com. Because of my findings, I had no other choice but to remove my membership from the SDA church. (My church was not teaching the truth about the Millennium) I have no "vendetta towards Mrs. White" but I do have a "vendetta" towards unbiblical teachings! I have a post in the "Books Wanted/ Books For Sale" section of this forum and I am going to repost a response I got from "Roadsalt" as I feel he brought up some excellent points.

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I agree with truthseeker. The Lord shall reign on this earth for one thousand years after He returns. The earth will not be the abyss for the fallen angels. The earth shall be rebuilt and repopulated by those who are left after the Lord's coming with His saints and angels. There will have been much desolation and destruction and death, but some will come through to inherit the kingdom and it shall reign and cover the whole of the earth. This is scriptural. There is alot of scripture stating this truth, many many passages. Seek with an open heart for the truth, throw aside prejudices, and be like the Bereans who tested all things for the truth of scripture. If the millenial kingdom on this earth will not be, then many of God's promises to the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will not happen. One promise is stated in Ezekiel 36:33-38;

33 "Thus says the Lord God: 'On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt.

34" The desolate land will be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by.

35 'So they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden;and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.'

36 "Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I , the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it."

37 'Thus says the Lord God: "I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock.

38 "Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I Am the Lord."'"

This promise and prophecy of Ezekiel 36 is a prophecy mainly concerning Israel, as a nation, at the end of the age, at the return of the Lord jesus Christ, the Son of God. Israel is still under the chaJtisement of God at this time, this prophecy is of the end of the age , the beginning of the Lord Jesus' reign in all His power and glory on this earth, the millenial kingdom. Ezekiel 36 has not been fulfilled as of yet. There is alot of scripture showing forth the truth of the millenial kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ on this earth for the thousand years.

Shalom and Godspeed

God Bless, John.

[Stan]

I have requested that Townhall not have Politics or Religion.. there are other places for this.

[True-believer]

Scripture Altering in Ellen G White's book "The Great Controversy"???

Its meant to be the great battle between Jesus Christ and Satan...

Jesus defeated Satan on The Cross...

Jesus Himself said, "It is finished"...

The curtain torn in two... giving us complete access to God through Jesus by the Holy Spirit...

Judgment for sin finished on The Cross.

[oldsailor29]

This promise and prophecy of Ezekiel 36 is a prophecy mainly concerning Israel, as a nation, at the end of the age, at the return of the Lord jesus Christ, the Son of God. Israel is still under the chaJtisement of God at this time, this prophecy is of the end of the age , the beginning of the Lord Jesus' reign in all His power and glory on this earth, the millenial kingdom. Ezekiel 36 has not been fulfilled as of yet. There is alot of scripture showing forth the truth of the millenial kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ on this earth for the thousand years.

Shalom and Godspeed

God Bless, John.

[Dr. Rich]

Oldsailor29, You are absolutly right. In prophecy, many of them found in the old testiment were conditional and since the conditions did not happen, neither will the prophecy.

I find three Kingdom of Heaven--or Kingdom of Gods in the bible. The first was when Israel was taken out of slavery by Moses. The second was given a specific time to get rid of sin (found in Daniel 9:24) but that never happened. They never accepted Jesus as thier King.

The third Kingdom is the Dan. 2's 'rock cut out w/o hands and was to be set up at a given time found in Dan. 8:14 (1843) You can find that Jesus spoke about these three Kingdoms in Matthew 20:1-16 and 21:33-46. Take special not of verse 43.

There was NO "Kindom of Heaven" after the death of Jesus until 1843 when the SDA church was set up. Matthew 25 is the prophecy about them and every point found there is associated with Seventh Day Adventists.

Revelation's seven messages to this same group (SDA) can be found in Rev. 2 and 3. For more a deeper understanding of this go to the web site: www.spiritoftruthministry.net and you can read about the Sabbath School Studies given and recorded and broadcast live from the Calimesa Ca. SDA church at www.blogtalkradio.com/spiritoftruth

In Jesus Christ, Dr. Rich

[True-believer]

There was NO "Kindom of Heaven" after the death of Jesus until 1843 when the SDA church was set up. Matthew 25 is the prophecy about them and every point found there is associated with Seventh Day Adventists.In Jesus Christ,Dr. Rich

The SDA Church is NOT the Kingdom of heaven, stop being so legalistic Dr Rich!!!