Comments from a dumb guy

[Key Guy]

Quote:

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, 'Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?' And Jesus called a little child unto Him and set him in the midst of them and said, 'Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.' Matthew 18:1-4

I am amazed at the threads here that split hairs, like it matters:

Who make up the 144,000?

Did E White change scripture? Is she a true prophet?

What's the difference between the Old and New Testament messages?

Was Samuel B a Jesuit?

What exactly was Christ's human nature?

Did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

Can we overcome sin before Christ returns?

Is the church pro life or pro choice?

Quote:

'except ye be converted, and become as little children...'

Trivial discussions:

1. They bring out the people who have such great educated insight, obviously coming from some higher-learning institution. They are the ones that have the ability and degree(s) to question the authority of the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. Smart, smart people! Are you impressed, yet?

2. These discussions mean nothing in the grand scope of eternity. Are these answers going to save your soul?

You either accept Christ's sacrifice and gift of His righteousness and obey Him, or you don't.

Quote:

'except ye be converted, and become as little children...'

Seems pretty basic, pretty simple to me.

Quote:

'except ye be converted, and become as little children

If we can't explain the Gospel in terms that a child can understand, then we are missing the boat. I don't recall where Christ dove into deep theological discussions. Not with the church leaders. Not even with Nicodemus. Certainly not with the crowds hungering after truth and righteousness.

Quote:

'except ye be converted, and become as little children...'

In fact, the Gospel was so simple that it tripped up the self-described wise men of the day. The common people understood, the Pharisees were confounded.

It just seems that we get too hung up over the dotting of the I's and the crossing of the T's. We too often lose sight of the simple faith required to be a child of the Kingdom.

I had to get this off of my chest.

[phkrause]

timewarp what can I say but, Some excellent points. I totally agree.

pk

[carolaa]

I couldn't agree more.

[Guest truthseeker007]

You are right Timewarp. It used to be simple, but Ellen White loved to complicate matters and put her own stamp on her writings. This is what is creating the confusion.

And these questions really do matter, as a matter of fact. For instance, in the 80s there was a big controversy about the investigative judgement, and as a result a large part of the seventh day adventists gave up their membership.

It now seems like we are only discussing just to discuss something. But actually we want to get to know the real truth, then we have a biblical answer to everything, and then when it s time for God s army to give the closing message, we can bring the message in all of its fullness. But you are right, these matters are not salvational, although Ellen White made salvation a matter of law-keeping plus works.

Man, if Ellen White was willingly a false prophet, i hate that woman so terribly much. If she was truly working for God, she should have been more meek, and support her claims with scripture. I cannot accept things, just because she says that it is so.

[Guest truthseeker007]

By the way you are not dumb. Otherwise you wouldn t have this insight;)

[Key Guy]

TS, if Ellen White is a hang-up for you, stay with the scriptures and commit to obeying what God has shown you so far. If you are faithful in the truth He has given you, He'll give you more.

[Key Guy]

By the way you are not dumb. Otherwise you wouldn t have this insight;)

(being extremely vulnerable)... I didn't do college. Can you tell?

[Key Guy]

Additional observation:

For thousands of years, the Jewish rabbis have been debating and discussing things scriptural. How much progress have they made?

[phkrause]

In that case there are others who are off base. And like timewarp said the Bible is what you should be reading, if you have a problem with EGW. All she does is show us to the bible TS.

pk

[Guest truthseeker007]

haha timewarp, just because you didn t do college, it doesn t mean you are dumb. In fact college can make people dumb because it is programming people into worldy realms of reality. So for instance, in Nazi germany Hitler had a huge staff of which many were Ph d's and other scientists. But they were not smart. For if they were they wouldn t have let their country being ruined. I believe that insight is far more important than learningskills or having a good memory. If you study the bible, you are able to make sense of this seemingly nonsense world and thereby you are smarter than 90 percent of the academic community that hold on to their man-made theories about everything that is under the sun.

[Guest truthseeker007]

"All she does is show us to the bible TS."

No all she does is give us her interpretation of the bible. And who is she?

[Key Guy]

"All she does is show us to the bible TS."

No all she does is give us her interpretation of the bible. And who is she?

'She' claimed to receive messages from God.

Either she is a fraud or truly God's messenger. If she is a fraud and since the SDA church has accepted and condoned her words, then the SDA church is a fraud and should be shunned.

If she is truly God's messenger and you have read her councils and rejected them, then God will deal with that in His way.

If you have decided to reject her, do you think that constantly questioning her here on this forum will change the SDA church or do you wish to erode believers one at a time?

As for me, you'll be here on that project a long time as I am convinced that Ellen White is a messenger of God and worthy of my attention, not swaying any time soon.

As a self-described Truth Seeker, I hope you discover the truth you are looking for. I do question the method of your seeking on this forum at times.

[Guest truthseeker007]

" I do question the method of your seeking on this forum at times."

Ellen White said "we should never find ourselves in a comfortable state saying "i am saved""

So i thought i help you to get out of your comfort. Am i the only one willing to bear pain to get to the knowledge of truth?

[Lutz13]

I am amazed at the threads here that split hairs, like it matters:

Who make up the 144,000?

Did E White change scripture? Is she a true prophet?

What's the difference between the Old and New Testament messages?

Was Samuel B a Jesuit?

What exactly was Christ's human nature?

Did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

Can we overcome sin before Christ returns?

Is the church pro life or pro choice?

Timewarp,

I disagree. A lot of these topics may lead people through scripture. I know some topics have lead me throughout lots of scripture. Going back and forth in the bible, what has it done for me? Though I went in circles with a lot of people, I have learned that it is a blessing. I have memorized lots of scripture, I have learned new things about how deep Gods love really is for us. Those are just a couple examples.

Could I learn this all on my own? Sure, but we are to fellowship with one another because we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We can still have fellowship over the internet. If these topics bother you, do not read them and just move on.

[Key Guy]

" I do question the method of your seeking on this forum at times."

Ellen White said "we should never find ourselves in a comfortable state saying "i am saved""

So i thought i help you to get out of your comfort. Am i the only one willing to bear pain to get to the knowledge of truth?

1. All Christians should be 'Truth Seekers'. We all have unique ways of finding it with the help of the Holy Spirit.

2. Your statement as above assumes that I am A) in 'comfort', in need of getting out of 'comfort', and C) grateful that someone like yourself is willing to bear some kind of 'truth-seeking' pain. You are assuming up the wrong tree.

3. I find it odd that you quote Mrs. White as above even though you are so bent on rejecting her.

4. Rather than approaching Mrs White from a point of rejecting her first, I'd like to invite you to approach her writings from a point acceptance. It might be refreshing. It would be to me.

[Key Guy]

We can still have fellowship over the internet. If these topics bother you, do not read them and just move on.

Thanks! Good show. I was wondering how long it would take to receive a response like that.

I am pleased that the endless debates, going back and forth and 'in circles' are good for you.

I'm not advocating shutting down the fun. I just question the overall purpose.

[Key Guy]

"The Dilemma of Neo-Antinomian Dispensationalism"

Now, THAT will make my walk with Christ and entrance to Heaven so much better!

This makes my original point. I can't even wrap my head around the title. Dumb guy indeed.

[jasd]

>>'except ye be converted, and become as little children...'<,

What do you think Jesus Christ meant by the above quote?

>>2. These discussions mean nothing in the grand scope of eternity. Are these answers going to save your soul?<<

So, why aren’t you out testifying of Jesus Christ and His love for the world – rather than wasting your time here disparaging the efforts of others? Is that a prerequisite for the “saving of your soul”?

Tchah! the hypocrisy! mebbe being dumb is not so smart, eh? else, why do you persist with such as the following”

Quote:

Quote:timewarp

As for me, you'll be here on that project a long time as I am convinced that Ellen White is a messenger of God and worthy of my attention,..

So, how do you square your endorsement of one who wrote 30,000,000 words re the things of Gd vis-à-vis the ‘simplistic’ statements following?

Quote:

Quote:timewarp

You either accept Christ's sacrifice and gift of His righteousness and obey Him, or you don't.

Quote:

Quote:timewarp

Seems pretty basic, pretty simple to me.

Quote:

Quote:timewarp

If we can't explain the Gospel in terms that a child can understand, then we are missing the boat.

Is that what Jesus Christ meant? or is that how you read Holy Writ?

Sounds sorta three ways from Sunday to me. Guess the Holy Spirit erred badly when inspiring St Luke to write of the Bereans in the following manner:

Acts 17:10 ...Bereans:...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I am reminded of the indolence of 'sloppy agape' fundamentalism.

[Key Guy]

I'll pass

I'm not getting sucked into your 'smart guy' debates. I made an observation. I prefer to stay with simple and basic. It works for me. I assume you don't mind.

[phkrause]

Oh they were smart enough, God was just a little smarter.

pk

[jasd]

>>I made an observation.<<

No, you made an unprovoked and uncouth disparagement re members of the list.

A clinical "observation" addressing the specifics of any of the several topics/threads would not have elicited my above response.

'Rude' is best appreciated when it is correlate to 'rustic'.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, it reminds of a sermon suggestion I made to a pastor in view of all the hair splitting theological dissections that seem to dominate our doctrines and discussions. I said I want to hear a sermon on the topic, "Are you too dumb to be saved?"

By our complex doctrinal mumbo-jumbo we discourage at least half of the population to just give up trying since it seems salvation is beyond their intellectual reach because they think if they can't understand it, they just must be too dumb to be saved. I have a friend in that category that got tears of relief in his eyes when he finally was given a simple explanation of the grace that saves. He really thought that salvation was all beyond him, out of his reach, because he didn't understand it.

God doesn't save just the smart ones. But He does save all the loving ones. (See Matthew 25)

The sign God's people in the end is just as Jesus said it, "Everyone will know you are my followers because you love one another." Revelation confirms those saints are the ones that follow the Lamb wherever he goes.

Tom

[jasd]

Love is indeed pivotal to Gospel teaching; however, before we go off on a tear re those who, per Writ, attempt to make a meal of the meat of the word – let us bear in mind this observation...

The Gospel of Jesus Christ can be encompassed in equivalently the same space and number of words represented by any paragraph above; that noted, why is there almost 800,000 other words which comprise the ‘Word of Gd’ – with every one of them – inspired by the Holy Spirit?

Let those who are fat and happy indulging in the milk [and porridge] of the Word – remain fat and happy – without ascribing this or that negative to those who find that their own constitution requires something more ‘filling’. Lastly,

nowhere in Writ does it forward or otherwise imply the idea that those who seek to emulate the Bereans re Holy Writ either lack the same capacity to love or will not be among those who follow the Lamb...

as those entirely satisfied with a more cursory 'reading' of Writ.