Anybody heard of Kingdom Adventists and Steve Daily?

[BobRyan]

I received Steve Daily's "Adventism for a New Generation" a few years ago from a former pastor. Since then I am guessing that Steve Daily has changed his views on things like speaking in tongues and laughing in the spirit etc etc.

Anybody else heard of a Kingdom Adventism?

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

No, what's that about?

pk

[olger]

I have heard of Steve Daly. Or is it Steve Case? One of them is quoted several times in Pipim's "Receiving the Word."

[phkrause]

Never heard of them either Olger!

pk

[Neil D]

I have heard of Steve Daly. Or is it Steve Case? One of them is quoted several times in Pipim's "Receiving the Word."

I know Steve Case...I have read Pipim's "Recieving the Word"...I know the character of many people Pipim "rebukes".....If given a choice between Pipim or those he rebukes, I'll take those he "rebukes"....As for Pipim, since when did the ABC lower it's standards on the authors?

[Stan]

Here is his blog

http://kingdomadventism.com/?page_id=2

not to be confused with the Kingdom Of Adventistan

[Dr. Rich]

Good Morning Stan,

Yes, I know Steve personally and he gave me his first--pre printed copy of the magazine they will be printing. They have articles in it about why they call themselves Kingdom Adventists. Steve is the pastor for the Celebration Center in Redlands CA. I volunteer my time to help out with the food give away there and I also set up non-corporation church entities.

They say they follow the words of Jesus but they don't. In fact, they follow the words of Paul--completely saying that there is no reason to obey the law anymore because it was nailed to the cross.

There are about a dozen other churches that belong to the 'Kindom Churches' that do not have a SDA backgroud. If you would like for me to send you a copy of the magazine that explains who and what they are, please let me know and give your address or contact me personally.

Many have left the Celebration Center because of this mess. Dan Simpson started the Celebration Center and I was one of the first to attend. He divorced his wife because he said he believes that people do not have to keep the ten commandments anymore and that everyone will be saved. He attempted to be the first SDA "Benny Hinn".

Blessings, Dr. Rich

[oldsailor29]

Thank you Stan & Dr Rich.

I looked at his website.   Looks like he has something good going there.   If Jesus is his guide, as he says, I am sure he is keeping God's covenant.

I started reading Ronald Lambert's book, and he too states the opinion that the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of all truth.   I agree, and I will better acquaint myself with these people and their ideas.

[Dr. Rich]

You are very welcome,

Most people will agree that the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of all truth but they have not actually studied ONLY the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. They think that Luke, Paul and the writer of Hebrews are also the words and teaching of Jesus so they comingle everything. Our Sabbath School group at Calimesa CA SDA church over 15 years ago started to study ONLY the words of Jesus and found that His testimony is much different than Luke and Paul's words. Now we are pointing what we found to others and have been chastized for doing so.

Isn't the group found in Rev. 12:17 those who keep the Ten Commandments AND the testimoney of Jesus?

Dr. Rich

[oldsailor29]

You are very welcome,

Most people will agree that the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of all truth but they have not actually studied ONLY the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. They think that Luke, Paul and the writer of Hebrews are also the words and teaching of Jesus so they comingle everything. Our Sabbath School group at Calimesa CA SDA church over 15 years ago started to study ONLY the words of Jesus and found that His testimony is much different than Luke and Paul's words. Now we are pointing what we found to others and have been chastized for doing so.

Isn't the group found in Rev. 12:17 those who keep the Ten Commandments AND the testimoney of Jesus?

Dr. Rich

Yes, you certainly have put your finger on a hot button. All my life I have heard SDA evangelists say and sing, "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus."   And yet, when they begin preaching, they read everywhere else in the Bible except what Jesus said.

Well, maybe they did read a little bit of what Jesus said, but mostly other stuff.   You know what I menan.

For the past couple of years I have been saying that the EGW vision recounted in chapter xxx of "Life Sketches" tells us where we are today. (we being SDAs)   It tells of a ever narrowing road which leads to nowhere, except to faith in Jesus when they are forced to get off that road.

I have also been saying that the vision recounted in chapter vii (LS) tells us of the straight and narrow path which we should travel, being led by Jesus to the Holy City.   To me the narrowness represents the slender portion of the Bible taken up by the teachings of Jesus.

Eating His flesh and drinking His blood means studying His teachings.   And He says we should do that to the point where, when we open our mouths, His teachings gush out from our overfullness.

His teachings are the new wine and the living bread from God, and I say, let us be drunkards on His new wine and gluttons on His living bread.   And may we live forever.

[Dr. Rich]

I'll eat and drink to that my Brother!

[BobRyan]

Steve Daily has a sermon in May talking about the "Full Gospel" ministry at his church of Laughing-in-the-spirit to effect supernatural healing etc, speaking in tongues (the old pentecostal and charismatic way), casting out demons etc. I think he is asking other non-SDA charismatic groups to come in and demonstrate to the SDAs at his church "how its done" from the things he said in his sermon.

I believe that Daily is part of a larger movement in Adventism called "Progressive Adventists" that Fritz Guy also agrees with (apparently).

in Christ,

Bob

[Kevin H]

I know that Daily was involved with Progressive Adventists, but this new direction I don't think can be counted as typical progressive adventists, and that critics will unfairly use this to give progressive adventists a bad name. Also even with his involvement in "Progressive Adventism" was sort of on the side as he tended to be more legal standing focused than fits into Progressive Adventism. He tried to unite the relationship, God himself is hell fire as opposed to the fire from say lighting a match, with the legal standing focus of Desmond Ford. While I believe that all beauty is a making one of opposits, this is not a good relatioship of opposits, but having one leg on a horse headed east with the other leg on a horse headed west. He also while somewhat interested in exogesis, tended to have a tendency towards the more emotional religion. I think that if he had a choice between attending a Jim Fleming seminar or a highly charged emotional and musical sticky sweet jesusiee meeting that Fleming's lecture would have an empty seat.

I am very nervous when people start using the term "Full Gospel" as the only place there is full gospel is in Jesus himself. Once you get to the disciples you have the mingling of their encounter with Jesus and their background and perspective. Then when you get to the written record it is from the schools they started. We have 4 gospels due to the four of the major schools. Then we are with our perspective of the texts, how do we shape and color the words, how much do we know of the historical, geographical, political, religious, specific issue being addressed and cultural context of the text.

The best that we can say is that we are worshipers of the creator God and students of the Bible to try to learn more about the infinite God we worship.

As for the Charismatic movement: There is a tendency of their Holy Spirit to call attention to the fruits of the spirit. This is too much Holy Spirit centered. Members of the trinity always focus on the other two members of the trinity, not on themselves. The trinity lives in a righteousness by faith, self sacrificing love between each other. Revelation 12 and 13 is the doctrine of the trinity but where the aspects of the trinity are either working independent of each other, or cooperating for their own self interests, incontrast to the righteousness by faith and self sacrificing love that unites the true trinity.

[BobRyan]

Any time you see a "full gospel" church of any stripe - any denomination it means "Charismatic speaking in tongues" etc etc. That is exactly what SDA pastor Steve Daily means as well for his own church.

Only he is going for pure Rodney Howard-Browne laughing in the spirit and the "Great Awakening tour".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

He claims the Southern Calif Conference has given it's blessing to the "Great Awakening Tour" -- can anyone confirm that?

Bob

[John317]

Steve Daily has a sermon in May talking about the "Full Gospel" ministry at his church of Laughing-in-the-spirit to effect supernatural healing etc, speaking in tongues (the old pentecostal and charismatic way), casting out demons etc. I think he is asking other non-SDA charismatic groups to come in and demonstrate to the SDAs at his church "how its done" from the things he said in his sermon.

I believe that Daily is part of a larger movement in Adventism called "Progressive Adventists" that Fritz Guy also agrees with (apparently).

Where did you hear or see that Fritz Guy supports what Steve Daily is doing in this Laughing in the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

I see the casting out of demons as a separate issue. At least it is not necessarily related at all.

[John317]

It is wrong to try and make it seem that there is a conflict between Paul and the rest of the writers of the NT and Jesus Christ. It is all inspired by the Holy Spirit.

It's fine to concentrate one's study on the Gospels or just the words of Jesus or to compare the teachings of Paul with Christ or with James, John, and Peter, but it isn't right to try to persuade people to reject any of those books or writers. Nor is it right to imply or say that the Apostle Paul was a liar or not telling the truth, or that He didn't really meet Christ on the road to Damascus.

I know of people who are trying to do the same thing with the Old Testament. There are some claiming to be SDAs who teach that the Old Testament, or least much of it, was inspired by the Devil, and the Yahweh is actually Satan.

This is what Satan wants people to think.

Jesus said, "Your word is truth," and that word is the entire Bible, not simply the words of Jesus.

[Planey]

...what Steve Daily means...

Am I to understand that at last we have agreement on the "daily"?

Graeme

[John317]

I started reading Ronald Lambert's book, and he too states the opinion that the teachings of Jesus are the foundation of all truth.

But is he saying that Paul is a liar or can't be trusted? Is he trying to drive a wedge between Jesus Christ and the Apostle, saying that there are true contradictions between the teaching of the Lord and Paul?

[oldsailor29]

But is he saying that Paul is a liar or can't be trusted? Is he trying to drive a wedge between Jesus Christ and the Apostle, saying that there are true contradictions between the teaching of the Lord and Paul?

Lambert does? I haven't got to that part yet, or missed it. However, whoever does not agree with Jesus has no light.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Steve Daily has a sermon in May talking about the "Full Gospel" ministry at his church of Laughing-in-the-spirit to effect supernatural healing etc, speaking in tongues (the old pentecostal and charismatic way), casting out demons etc. I think he is asking other non-SDA charismatic groups to come in and demonstrate to the SDAs at his church "how its done" from the things he said in his sermon.

I believe that Daily is part of a larger movement in Adventism called "Progressive Adventists" that Fritz Guy also agrees with (apparently).

Where did you hear or see that Fritz Guy supports what Steve Daily is doing in this Laughing in the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

I see the casting out of demons as a separate issue. At least it is not necessarily related at all.

I did not mean to imply that Fritz and Daily agree with each other. The term "progressive Adventist" has a broad meaning and both of these guys claimed to be included in that -- however when you look at the term it really just means " does not hold to all the 28 Fundamental Beliefs".

so really it is only in that sense that their claims to it are both valid.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

John 317 wrote: "It is wrong to try and make it seem that there is a conflict between Paul and the rest of the writers of the NT and Jesus Christ. It is all inspired by the Holy Spirit."

Well now, who made you the judge and the jury? Haven't we been told to test everything? Isn't this what people are doing here with Steve Daily and his church? Tell me, what are the limits and who sets them?

What IF I could point out a clear conflict--not just 'try to make it seem'? Or--what would it take to convince you—one way or the other?

Blessings, (SDA)

[BobRyan]

If you want to start a topic on why you reject scripture - go ahead - but trying to change every topic to your same ideas about rejecting the word of God is distracting to the topic.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Basicly if what they say matches the Bible than its good if not its not. But I agree with you that everything that comes out of Daly, Guy, etc. should be compared to what the bible says. If they say we should be worshipping on tuesdays and not Sabbath per the Bible, guess what? They have no truth in them. That's the way I see it.

pk

[BobRyan]

As my friends on the baptist board say quite often - "preach it"!!

in Christ,

Bob