Saddest story ever...

[Gail]

I just heard someone tell about her relatives.

The parents were very staunch Adventists of the old school.

Their daughters are strong in the church, but the boys will have nothing to do with it, preferring instead a life of drugs and otherwise unhealthful living.

The grandkids, one of the daughter's children, have also rebelled. They have both "shacked up" and one has already had 2 children without the benefit of a husband.

Even as this relative related the story, she described them as having messed up their lives.

What an eye-opener that has been to these "perfect" Adventists, who have been forced to make changes to their own lives when faced with these situations.

I just see this tragic all the way around, but the most tragic are the attitudes of the rigidity of the older generations.

I'd be willing to say that this scenario has been played out thousands of times within traditional, believing families everywhere.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Even as this relative related the story, she described them as having messed up their lives.

What an eye-opener that has been to these "perfect" Adventists, who have been forced to make changes to their own lives when faced with these situations.

I just see this tragic all the way around, but the most tragic are the attitudes of the rigidity of the older generations.

I'd be willing to say that this scenario has been played out thousands of times within traditional, believing families everywhere.

Our four sons went thru the academy. The three oldest at one time and the youngest 4 years later.

Among their friends during that 8 year span there were classmates that came from very conservative families,some that would probably be viewed as more moderate,those very liberal and those that were SDA on a technicality,sending their children to what was hoped would be a very expensive reform school and that would straighten out the mess they had made.

Those that left the church came from a cross section of each group. Who is to blame? The parents?

The numbers of those that have returned years after high school is not high but it does happen. This also happens across all groups.

[carolaa]

As long as they're alive, there's always hope.

[nuff sed]

"he is still a vegetarian" Why is he 'still a vegetarian"?

[bonnie]

HEY ALL

THE devil is working hard and will use any thing

to get people ( young and old ) away from the truth.

my oldest son is not in the church right now

i would not call him a bad boy

he does not drink or smoke he is still a vegetarian

his job wants him to work on sabbath and he wants

to make money

dgrimm60

Many have children that have rebelled and left the church. I was not in anyway trying to blame those that have children that have left.

I know some parents that have had or are dealing with this and I know how much it hurts and the fact many parents blame themselves whether true or not.

I am grateful our four are in the church and are strong active members. Because they are is not an indication of being a "perfect adventist".

Ours are older with children of their own at this point. As the years pass recognizing the mistakes we made it is with the realization that they are in the church in spite of some of the mistakes we made rather than having the "perfect adventist" home.

It has to be hard,I know many families that have waited and prayed for 10-15 years for their children that have left.Some have been taken by complete surprise to learn that "suddenly" their children have made a complete turn around in their thinking regarding the adventist beliefs and lifestyles.

[carolaa]

"he is still a vegetarian" Why is he 'still a vegetarian"?

Why not?

[Cosmin M.]

I notice it too. At my church. I even noticed it at my SDA academy. Though they are not as bad as that, they will eventually get their if they don't straighten out, not that I don't need to fix some things in my life as well...

[phkrause]

What I never could understand, is why they all felt that they had to leave the church. For me personally, I was probably as bad or worse than most, but never thought of leaving the church. I guess we see the hippocrite, the liar, those that talk but don't do, and so on. But is that not where those people belong? No, I never thought about leaving the church, I figured this is what I needed more than being somewhere else.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

What an eye-opener that has been to these "perfect" Adventists, who have been forced to make changes to their own lives when faced with these situations.

I just see this tragic all the way around, but the most tragic are the attitudes of the rigidity of the older generations.

I suspect the above tells the reason for the children leaving the church - the attitude of their parents, and of other church members. I know a young man, aged 21, who is out of the church. He hasn't turned his back on God, only on organized religion. Why? Because his pastor father cared more about his image before the congregation than about his family's well-being. Because his dad was controlling and abusive. Because church members expected him to be perfect and condemned him when he was not.

It isn't conservative living that drives kids from the church, it's bad attitudes, and bad treatment.

[LynnDel]

It's not only bad attitudes and treatment; we tend to point the finger at ourselves because we all know we've made mistakes as parents and as church families, but there are many other reasons for the loss of our kids.

Over 50% of SDA adults are single, with many of them in their 20s and 30s, and we haven't been able to reach that group, try though we do. I can tell you that in my experience, church is a lonely place for singles. If I didn't have SDA on my DNA, I don't know if I'd still go, since it's always a reminder that I'm humanly alone.

The draw of the world has a lot to do with our kids walking out. TV has changed their mindset; they have a different culture than we do. Many of our kids grew up indoctrinated with the morals of programs such as "Friends" and "Will and Grace." Weekly input of that stuff into your brain, and your thoughts change; what was formerly unacceptable becomes normal. Church, God, and salvation become unnecessary. Heartbreaking.

LD

[GreatLakesGramma]

I know there are other reasons young people leave the church, but I was referring to the type of situation Gail was talking about, with rigid traditional viewpoints. In those cases, it isn't traditional beliefs, it's the rigid perfectionistic attitudes that sometimes go along with them.

[GreatLakesGramma]

When nobody actually said in the other thread what the comment offensive comment was that David Letterman made, I looked it up myself. I read the comments at the bottom of one article, and found a good example of what I'm talking about.

Quote:

There are CONSEQUENCES for bad behavior. And Bristol committed the mother lode! I previously supported Sarah and considered Bristol's behavior to have been beyond Sarah's control. But then Sarah & Todd empathically announced how "proud" (yes,"PROUD") they were of Bristol, right after she had the baby. THIS is why women's groups haven't supported Palin against Letterman. Bad behavior brings CONSEQUENCES and accompanying flack from others. People are gonna whisper and condemn. Sarah can be "proud" all she wants, but the rest of the country thinks Bristol's behavior was replusive. Ethical and sharp people do not look at unwed teenage girls and think, "I'm proud of you!" Letterman's joke (meant for Bristol) was warrented! CONSEQUENCES!

[Tom Wetmore]

"he is still a vegetarian" Why is he 'still a vegetarian"?

I think I get your point. But I have noticed frequently that of all the things the Adventist Church teaches, one of the most frequently retained teachings by former Adventists is dietary. Many former Adventists, and even current Adventist, will start drinking before they touch meat. Sabbath keeping is usually among the first of the teachings to go, right after sexual purity. In terms of what sticks, maybe we should call ourselves Vegetarian Adventists.

[Gerr]

But I wouldn't be surprised if similar tragic stories could be told about families on the opposite end of the spectrum. Extremism, whether to the right or to the left can be just as destructive.

Have you also considered the possibility that what happened had NOTHING to do with the rigidity of the parents? That that could be the reason they are using for the wrong choices they made? Such tragedies even occurs in the most ideal home circumstances. Was God too rigid that Lucifer rebelled?

[Gail]

Great points, all of you!

Since I heard that story, I have thought about it all day and even during parts of today. I know some of the people referred to, but never knew their history.

I think that the rigidity of the family (the first generation) just makes the contrast more stark. My first thought was for the matriarch of the clan, who is a meek and quiet person.

One good thing that was said about the father was that "he's done a lot of learning" over the years. He is supportive now of a youth pastor who is trying to make some contemporary changes in that church congregation. That was a surprise for me to hear that, and a welcome one, because I didn't expect that to come from him. I hand it to him for his open-mindedness, even if it was borne of a hard experience.

I know that it's said that it takes a village to raise a child. Perhaps there is a place for the church family to help ease a child's burden and help him/her gain a well-rounded experience.

[LynnDel]

Was it Adam and Eve's fault that Cain took the direction he did? Just asking; I don't know. There is the often-too-typical story of those who completely home school their children in order to protect them from the world, but at some point the child grows up and leaves the home environment. Often the world draws them and they leave the way in which they had been raised. I don't think it is possible for us to know for sure if the outcome would have been different had they been raised in a less restrictive manner, but it is easy for us to suppose the answer.

In order for the village/church to help with the child, a connection is needed between the homes in the church. Over the years our church families have become less connected to each other. The weekly Saturday night social, that used to connect the members and give a feeling of belonging to the kids, is a thing of the past. The church used to be filled with families and now is filled with retirees, and the church school (if it still exists) and its activities are no longer a focal point for church activities, either. Is there anything that will pull us together?

LD

[LifeHiscost]

It isn't conservative living that drives kids from the church, it's bad attitudes, and bad treatment.

Everyone who sins against God or others, always has someone or something to blame it on besides themselves. It started with Adam and Eve.

"And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

Genesis 3:12 KJV

If others are perfect people, that makes it easier for others to be better, but it doesn't promise perfect for anyone. We can all find someone to blame for our failures, but until we take responsibility for ourselves, we'll still end up hurting worse than we would had we shouldered our own weaknesses.

Regards!

[oldsailor29]

I just heard someone tell about her relatives.

The parents were very staunch Adventists of the old school.

Their daughters are strong in the church, but the boys will have nothing to do with it, preferring instead a life of drugs and otherwise unhealthful living.

The grandkids, one of the daughter's children, have also rebelled. They have both "shacked up" and one has already had 2 children without the benefit of a husband.

Even as this relative related the story, she described them as having messed up their lives.

What an eye-opener that has been to these "perfect" Adventists, who have been forced to make changes to their own lives when faced with these situations.

I just see this tragic all the way around, but the most tragic are the attitudes of the rigidity of the older generations.

I'd be willing to say that this scenario has been played out thousands of times within traditional, believing families everywhere.

Much of the disenchantment with religion is set up by well meaning people. I have often said that, taken to its logical conclusion, the doctrines of fundamentalism will cause people to reject God. Indoctrination of people that the Bible is inerrant or infallible, and the words are literally from God, and that it is either all true or it is all a pack of lies, is behind a lot of the falling out of membership. They don't even have to take this to total understanding. All they need is finding something in the Bible which they know is not true, and bango! Out they go. It is almost as if fundamentalism, with its misunderstanding of divine inspiration, is an invention and tool of the devil.

A better understanding of the nature of divine inspiration would provide needed answers to many interpretation problems and help many people retain their faith. It could well be a diabolic plan of an evil being, to set up the Bible in people's minds as inerrant/infallible, then just sit back and laugh as it destroys people's faith in itself.

On the other hand, I think it is probably true, that those who lose their faith may have wanted to, and may have been looking for any reason to do so. The Bible says that God gives us the desire to follow Him, and also the power to do so. So I have to believe that God, being fair to everyone, must eventually give everyone the desire and the power to follow Him. Regardless, even if God doesn't eventually draw all people to Himself, in the end everyone will have what they really want.

[LifeHiscost]

Is there anything that will pull us together?

LD

Friendship with Jesus! There is no other answer sufficient to meet our needs or able to make us useful in giving others a hope and a future.

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11 NIV

Blessings!

[Gail]

Another thing that I think might have made this story run much more smoothly is if the children had been allowed to make decisions on their own without being berated if they goofed.

I think that most people, especially teenagers, want to learn how to live as individuals, not someone that is dissed if s/he chooses a path which is seen as contrary to what the older generation considers less desirable.

Just wanting some space. It is sad that the outcome hurt some, but I cannot fault them for that.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Not everyone who leaves the church was looking for an excuse. I've known of some who have, but also some who have not. The young man I mentioned still prays, and is studying his Bible to find out what is really truth. His dad, though an Adventist pastor, doesn't believe half of what the church teaches. He has chosen to conduct his search for God outside of the church, where he never received any help or encouragement, or at least not enough to counteract all the negative experiences.

[Planey]

Was it Adam and Eve's fault that Cain took the direction he did?

Good question, LynnDel.

Just a thought - who counts as Satan's parents?

Graeme