Letterman steps in it...

[carolaa]

Still offensive, of course.

[Dr. Shane]

He didn't just say that Palin looked like a flight attendant. He said she was dressed like a slutty flight attendant. Trying to say he doesn't think flight attendants are slutty is like me saying my kids smell like pigs and later trying to say I don't think pigs smell bad. My use of the pigs shows that I believe pigs are one of the smelliest animals. Letterman's use of flight attendants shows that Letterman thinks flight attendants are among the sluttiest professions. After all, Palin was dressed like a slutty flight attendant.

[carolaa]

No, I don't see it that way. I think he's saying she is dressed like a "bad" flight attendant, but not necessarily that all flight attendants are "bad."

[Dr. Shane]

He didn't use the word bad. He used the word slutty. Flight attendants have a dress code and in some cases uniforms they must use. So stereotyping the dress of a flight attendant pretty much insults all flight attendants. It also sets the tone for the whole monologue that he gave. It was all about degrading women. 1. Flight attendants are slutty. 2. Palin is slutty 3. Palin's daughter is slutty. Can we see the pattern? What do flight attendants, Palin and her daughter all have in common?

[carolaa]

I just think that is a real stretch. I don't think there was a pattern intended. And I don't think he was dissing flight attendants. There would have been no need to use that adjective if he was referring to all flight attendants - he would have just said "flight attendant" w/o the adjective. But he meant a specific type of flight attendant.

I agree what he said was in really poor taste, inexcusable, but I think some people are making more of it than it is.

[Dr. Shane]

Feminists Take Sarah Palin's Side in Letterman Feud

Now Amanda Fortini at Salon has jumped on the anti-misogynist Letterman bandwagon, also calling out feminists who avert their eyes when conservative women are the targets. In an overall good piece just out:

If there was any question that a stubborn strain of old-school sexism persists in Obama's America, one has only to look at certain leaders of what the right wing loves to call the "liberal media" but which is sounding and acting, recently, more like the frat-house media.

There, like a virus hiding in the body before, perhaps, staging a comeback, misogyny has found a place to lurk almost undetected, at least by the usually sharp eyes of progressive feminists.

Examine the symptoms of this infection, beginning with David Letterman's comments....

Shouldn't liberals exhibit the same sort of decorous treatment we demand for ourselves? Sexist comments like Letterman's and Cimbalo's also conjure a troublingly insular, clubhouse atmosphere in lieu of an inclusive political party. What's more, the gender-based stereotypes they conjure are as stale and ignorant as any voiced by the old Neanderthal right: Pretty women are de facto stupid, sexually promiscuous and low-class....

And what's the problem with sexy women, anyway? The facile answer is to say that female sexuality is threatening in some visceral, primitive way. But maybe the deeper fact is that pretty women remind us that the world is essentially unfair -- and if the world is unfair, then the progressive quest for fairness may be quixotic and unnatural. There is no more free market economy than your average singles bar. In any case, stern conservative strength in a woman has undone the left for ages: See Margaret Thatcher. Liberals would probably contend that these women present much to argue with, propounding odious views with real-world implications -- they do, they do -- but why not attack their ideas rather than insult them?

Asking why it is that liberal women do not often take liberal men to task for these attitudes is well worthwhile. Maybe we don't want to appear shrill and humorless, unable to take a joke. Or maybe it's thought that conservative women are too ideologically reprehensible to merit a defense. But to challenge this kind of sexist talk is not the same thing as agreeing with a woman's politics. If the left is allowed to remain a refuge for this sort of misogyny, if this virus in the body politic is allowed to flourish, then it is likely only a matter of time before it is once again directed at liberal women who are threatening in some way, as happened to Hillary Clinton....

Letterman "Jokes" About Palin's Daughter

Offender: David Letterman on "Late Show with David Letterman"

Media Outlet: CBS, aired 6/8/09

The Offense: Late night TV host David Letterman "joked" that during their recent trip to New York, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's daughter "was knocked up by Alex Rodriguez" during a Yankees baseball game. The next night Letterman said that the hardest part of Palin's trip was "keeping Eliot Spitzer away from her daughter."

NOW Analysis: After two nights of "jokes" at the expense of Palin and her family, Letterman tried to explain himself and offer something of an apology. On his June 10 show, Letterman said he was referring to Palin's 18-year-old daughter, Bristol -- not the 14-year-old daughter who actually accompanied Palin on her New York trip. Letterman said "I recognize that these are ugly" jokes. NOW agrees. Comedians in search of a laugh should really know better than to snicker about men having sex with teenage girls (or young women) less than half their age.

The sexualization of girls and women in the media is reaching new lows these days -- it is exploitative and has a negative effect on how all women and girls are perceived and how they view themselves. Letterman also joked about what he called Palin's "slutty flight attendant look" -- yet another example of how the media love to focus on a woman politician's appearance, especially as it relates to her sexual appeal to men. Someone of Letterman's stature, who appears on what used to be known as "the Tiffany Network" (CBS), should be above wallowing in the juvenile, sexist mud that other comedians and broadcasters seem to prefer.

On that point, it's important to note that when Chelsea Clinton was 13 years old she was the target of numerous insults based on her appearance. Rush Limbaugh even referred to her as the "White House dog." NOW hopes that all the conservatives who are fired up about sexism in the media lately will join us in calling out sexism when it is directed at women who aren't professed conservatives.

[text taken from links]

[bonnie]

Quote:

On that point, it's important to note that when Chelsea Clinton was 13 years old she was the target of numerous insults based on her appearance. Rush Limbaugh even referred to her as the "White House dog." NOW hopes that all the conservatives who are fired up about sexism in the media lately will join us in calling out sexism when it is directed at women who aren't professed conservatives.

[text taken from links]

This is false. Not at all what happened

[Tom Wetmore]

Quote:

On that point, it's important to note that when Chelsea Clinton was 13 years old she was the target of numerous insults based on her appearance. Rush Limbaugh even referred to her as the "White House dog." NOW hopes that all the conservatives who are fired up about sexism in the media lately will join us in calling out sexism when it is directed at women who aren't professed conservatives.

[text taken from links]

This is false. Not at all what happened

Columnist Molly Ivins reported (Arizona Republic 10/17/93) this incident from Limbaugh's TV show--"Here is a Limbaugh joke: Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" And he puts up a picture of Chelsea Clinton. Chelsea Clinton is 13 years old.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Quote:

On that point, it's important to note that when Chelsea Clinton was 13 years old she was the target of numerous insults based on her appearance. Rush Limbaugh even referred to her as the "White House dog." NOW hopes that all the conservatives who are fired up about sexism in the media lately will join us in calling out sexism when it is directed at women who aren't professed conservatives.

[text taken from links]

This is false. Not at all what happened

Columnist Molly Ivins reported (Arizona Republic 10/17/93) this incident from Limbaugh's TV show--"Here is a Limbaugh joke: Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" And he puts up a picture of Chelsea Clinton. Chelsea Clinton is 13 years old.

Were you watching at the time??

Is molly Ivins spin on what happened without question in your mind.?

There are those that actually saw it take place

[bonnie]

Rush Limbaugh can be abrasive when it come to the democrat party and deliberately so. He is about many republicans as well.

He does not refer to any woman as slutty,nor does he go after anyone's children.

[bonnie]

Didnt happen that way.

Transcript from lexis nexis:

Copyright 1992 Multimedia Entertainment, Inc.

RUSH LIMBAUGH

SHOW: RUSH LIMBAUGH (9:00 PM ET)

November 6, 1992, Friday 11:15 AM

David Hinckley of--of the New York Daily News wrote this, and what he has--he's got--it's very strange. He says, In: A cute kid in the White House. Out: Cute dog in the White House.' Could--could we see the cute kid? Let's take a look at- -see who is the cute kid in the White House.

(A picture is shown of Millie the dog)

LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) No, no, no. That's not the kid.

(Picture shown of Chelsea Clinton)

[Dr. Shane]

Letterman re-addresses Palin: 'I had no idea [Willow] was there'

“And then I was watching the Jim Lehrer ‘Newshour’ – this commentator, the columnist Mark Shields, was talking about how I had made this indefensible joke about the 14-year-old girl, and I thought, ‘Oh, boy, now I’m beginning to understand what the problem is here. It’s the perception rather than the intent.’ It doesn’t make any difference what my intent was, it’s the perception. And, as they say about jokes, if you have to explain the joke, it’s not a very good joke. And I’m certainly – ” (audience applause) “– thank you. Well, my responsibility – I take full blame for that. I told a bad joke. I told a joke that was beyond flawed, and my intent is completely meaningless compared to the perception. And since it was a joke I told, I feel that I need to do the right thing here and apologize for having told that joke. It’s not your fault that it was misunderstood, it’s my fault. That it was misunderstood.” (audience applauds) “Thank you. So I would like to apologize, especially to the two daughters involved, Bristol and Willow, and also to the governor and her family and everybody else who was outraged by the joke. I’m sorry about it and I’ll try to do better in the future. Thank you very much.” (audience applause).

[text taken from link]

[bonnie]

Letterman re-addresses Palin: 'I had no idea [Willow] was there'

“And then I was watching the Jim Lehrer ‘Newshour’ – this commentator, the columnist Mark Shields, was talking about how I had made this indefensible joke about the 14-year-old girl, and I thought, ‘Oh, boy, now I’m beginning to understand what the problem is here. It’s the perception rather than the intent.’ It doesn’t make any difference what my intent was, it’s the perception. And, as they say about jokes, if you have to explain the joke, it’s not a very good joke. And I’m certainly – ” (audience applause) “– thank you. Well, my responsibility – I take full blame for that. I told a bad joke. I told a joke that was beyond flawed, and my intent is completely meaningless compared to the perception. And since it was a joke I told, I feel that I need to do the right thing here and apologize for having told that joke. It’s not your fault that it was misunderstood, it’s my fault. That it was misunderstood.” (audience applauds) “Thank you. So I would like to apologize, especially to the two daughters involved, Bristol and Willow, and also to the governor and her family and everybody else who was outraged by the joke. I’m sorry about it and I’ll try to do better in the future. Thank you very much.” (audience applause).

His apology with disclaimers is as insulting and demeaning as his so called joke

[text taken from link]

[Tom Wetmore]

Exactly how much groveling is enough for you!?!? DO you want him to make it right ancient Japanese style by committing hari kari?

[bonnie]

Exactly how much groveling is enough for you!?!? DO you want him to make it right ancient Japanese style by committing hari kari?

What would be nice is if had not given such a self-serving apology.

There is not any mentally competent 60 year old man that can think this is simply funny. He can explain it away as a "bad joke". He claims to have not understood what he did until told. The only thing he didn't bank on was the backlash that erupted.

If he can not say "I am sorry,I should not have been making sexual jokes about teenage girls" and leave it there without all the lame self serving disclaimers he should just plain shut up.

When a apology is forced it means nothing.

There is only one way to take a joke from a 60 year old man concerning teenage girls.

I had made this indefensible joke about the 14-year-old girl, and I thought, ‘Oh, boy, now I’m beginning to understand what the problem is here. It’s the perception rather than the intent.’ It doesn’t make any difference what my intent was, it’s the perception. And, as they say about jokes, if you have to explain the joke, it’s not a very good joke. And I’m certainly – ” (audience applause) “– thank you. Well, my responsibility – I take full blame for that. I told a bad joke. I told a joke that was beyond flawed, and my intent is completely meaningless compared to the perception.

[carolaa]

At some point, when a person admits they made a mistake and apologizes, it's time to let it go, rather than quibbling over whether the apology was worded just right. Yes, it would have been nice if he had worded his apology differently. Maybe he could have sent the Palins a bouquet of flowers - but then again, that probably would have been misconstrued and criticized. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he "gets it" and move on. If he does it again in the future, we can come down like a hammer at that time. But maybe the ball is in our corner now to show a little forgiveness and put it behind us.

[bonnie]

At some point, when a person admits they made a mistake and apologizes, it's time to let it go, rather than quibbling over whether the apology was worded just right. Yes, it would have been nice if he had worded his apology differently. Maybe he could have sent the Palins a bouquet of flowers - but then again, that probably would have been misconstrued and criticized. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he "gets it" and move on. If he does it again in the future, we can come down like a hammer at that time. But maybe the ball is in our corner now to show a little forgiveness and put it behind us.

It has nothing to do with the apology being worded just right.

It was self serving .

I have nothing to forgive him for. It would be insulting to Sarah Palin to tell her I forgave Letterman. He didn't do anything to me or mine.

However he seems to have forgotten that Sarah Palin looks like a slutty flight attendant.

He would have understood immediately he should not say Michelle Obama looked like a slutty flight attendant or make those kinds of disgusting remarks about the daughters of the president.

[Dr. Shane]

Sarah Palin accepted his apology. Robin Roberts and Diane Sawyer on GMA seemed a little more reluctant. One has to wonder if Letterman didn't plan this scandal to happen the first week the Night Show has a new host.

[bonnie]

Sarah Palin accepted his apology. Robin Roberts and Diane Sawyer on GMA seemed a little more reluctant. One has to wonder if Letterman didn't plan this scandal to happen the first week the Night Show has a new host.

I heard a clip from Letterman on the news tonight. This was thought out and accepted as "a joke" from the beginning.

He made reference to checking to see which daughter before the show aired, if it were the older or the 14 year old. He was assured it was the older.

When you are a dirty old man it may have been wise for you to claim you were referring to an adult not a minor.

His "looks like a slutty flight attendant" stands as said.

[Tom Wetmore]

May I strongly recommend the book The Art of Forgiving by the late Lewis Smedes?

[bonnie]

May I strongly recommend the book The Art of Forgiving by the late Lewis Smedes?

Forgiveness on this issue is not mine to give,nor is it yours.

An apology with disclaimers is self serving. It was not the wife of Tom Wetmore that was compared on national television to "looking slutty as a flight attendant"

Nor were the crude,entirely inappropriate sexual remarks made concerning Tom Wetmore's children.

Trying to excuse it because Letterman claims he was talking of the older one. In his sleezy mind going from 14 to 18 somehow makes it understandable

The "looking like a slutty flight attendant" still stands by the way.

[bonnie]

May I strongly recommend the book The Art of Forgiving by the late Lewis Smedes?

[carolaa]

I have nothing to forgive him for.

Then there's no problem. The person he insulted has forgiven him. Time to move on.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

I have nothing to forgive him for.

Then there's no problem. The person he insulted has forgiven him. Time to move on.

Go for it. Sorry if you thought I was preventing you from doing so. This is a forum you come to voluntarily by request