Should the Kingdom of Adventistan allow guns...

[Dr. Shane]

Heaven has God's hornets. No need for guns there.

[Planey]

Should the Kingdom of Heaven allow guns?

No.

In that kingdom apparently the standard issue is two swords.

Graeme

[GreatLakesGramma]

There will be no need to defend ourselves or anyone else against attack in Heaven.

[carolaa]

There must be some kind of weapons in heaven since they had a war there.

[phkrause]

Yeah carolaa, our brains.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

The rebels were permanently expelled, so now we have to fight them here instead. Once we get there, we won't have to deal with them any more.

As for Adventistan, even if no evildoers ever set foot in the place, that's not to say there will be no dangerous animals we might need to protect ourselves from.

[Ted Oplinger]

The rebels were permanently expelled, so now we have to fight them here instead. Once we get there, we won't have to deal with them any more.

As for Adventistan, even if no evildoers ever set foot in the place, that's not to say there will be no dangerous animals we might need to protect ourselves from.

Yet if Adventistan becomes famous for its long-lived, wise, and peaceful people...other nations will come knocking to take it over...it seems no peaceful kingdom is left alone by the worldly predators of the national level.

I can count at least 4 reasons for the use of firearms...

1) Acquiring flesh food;

2) Self-defense, whether against the 4-footed or the 2-footed dangers;

3) Keeping the peace - against domestic or foreign threats

and one of my favorites...

4) Marksmanship and sportsmanship - shooting sports

Rolling...and Happy Sabbath all...

[GreatLakesGramma]

I agree with you, Ted.

In one of the natural health email newsletters I subscribe to, the author stated his belief that the American economy and political system is going to collapse. He thinks that would be a good thing, because then like-minded persons could form new, smaller nation-states with more freedom to make their own choices, and at least some could choose health freedom. In other words, no FDA outlawing herbs, no sanctions against naturopaths and other alternatives to MDs, no forced vaccinations or chemotherapy for children, etc.

My thought when I read his article was "dream on!" There are more than enough tyrants in the world whose greatest desire is to dominate and exploit as many people as possible, for their own advantage, who are watching for every possible opportunity to add to their domain. Adventistan must either have the firepower to defend itself against all such tyrants, or be under the protection of a more powerful nation.

Unless of course, Adventistan expects God to be its shield from aggressive nations. But even when Israel was right with God, He did not do that for them. They were expected to do their part - go to war - but then He gave them victories they could never have achieved in their own strength. He did give them peace during most of Solomon's reign, and He could do the same for Adventistan, but only if that were in His plan. And that would not be known by taking an opinion poll of members, only by sincere, persevering prayer for guidance in His will.

[oldsailor29]

I agree with you, Ted.

In one of the natural health email newsletters I subscribe to, the author stated his belief that the American economy and political system is going to collapse. He thinks that would be a good thing, because then like-minded persons could form new, smaller nation-states with more freedom to make their own choices, and at least some could choose health freedom. In other words, no FDA outlawing herbs, no sanctions against naturopaths and other alternatives to MDs, no forced vaccinations or chemotherapy for children, etc.

Sounds like "he" has been reading "Atlas Shrugged."

[Ted Oplinger]

Unless of course, Adventistan expects God to be its shield from aggressive nations. But even when Israel was right with God, He did not do that for them. They were expected to do their part - go to war - but then He gave them victories they could never have achieved in their own strength. He did give them peace during most of Solomon's reign, and He could do the same for Adventistan, but only if that were in His plan. And that would not be known by taking an opinion poll of members, only by sincere, persevering prayer for guidance in His will.

Yet God would still expect His people to play their parts and roles for the nation - just as He expects us to pick up our responsibilities in our churches, and do those "good works prepared before us".

Some are comfortable with the presence and use of firearms... I know many Adventists are not.

Getting off the firearms subject a bit, it appears easy to fall into the trap that, because God has defended and shielded His servants in certain situations in the past, He should do it all the time if we are faithful and peaceful enough. No...He does expect us to shoulder and responsibly defend the freedoms He gives His people. We are no different in this before God as Israel was then.

No, God's Word says that so far as it is possible with you, as it depends upon you, be at peace with all men (Romans 12:18). Implicit in this statement, though, is the fact that there will be some people one cannot exist peacefully with. Because we don't want to? No, Because every relationship is dependent on 2 people, not just self - and some will not return the peaceful intent one may have.

There will always be, on this side of the resurrection, some people we will encounter who, for whatever reason, just don't like us. And there are those that, for whatever reason, we just don't like.

In these situations, it is always best to relate one to the other in a position of peaceful strength, because it is in this situation where it is so very easy to "forget" the value Christ has placed upon all, disrespect what is important to the other person, step on their freedoms, and thus start down the path of grievance and injustice that leads to strife and conflict.

Sane people don't willingly initiate hostilities with someone more powerful than themselves. Unfortunately, today's world has sanity in the precious commodities market...rare and expensive.

Got to get the family ready for church, so I'm rolling on...

[Ted Oplinger]

Yes, Old Sailor, it does appear that way.

And "Atlas" may be shrugging with a little more effort in the days ahead...

[phkrause]

"but then He gave them victories they could never have achieved in their own strength."

exactly, I believe that all he wanted from them was there loyalty to him.

"He did give them peace during most of Solomon's reign,"

Yes it had started at the end of David's reign, because they were following all he asked of them. But than at the end of Solomon's reign, or sometime during his reign he did something to offend God and he allowed other nations to again confront Israel. But after Solomon died.

I'm not sure where I read this, but I read somewhere that God said he would fight for Israel. There where a number of times that when the King would actually ask and listen to the Prophet, that the Lord would show them the armies of the Lord that were standing all around the camp of the enemy. I believe that this started way back when they first came out of Egypt. He opened the sea for them so that they could cross over on dry ground, than when the egyptians sent in after them the water kill the army without the Israelites having to lift a finger to fight them off. Of course there are plenty of other examples, but I think you understand what I'm saying.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

Another thing - if we are going to grow our own food, we may have to protect our food from wild animals also. My husband bought a gun to shoot the raccoons and possums that would otherwise leave his father with no fruit on his cherry trees. And the deer do a lot of damage to the crops on the farm. We can't do anything about it while they are doing the damage, but those responsible persons we know in the area who hunt have open permission to do so on the farm. The more deer they get, the happier we are. And they think that WE are doing THEM a favor!

Man has no choice but to compete with animals for our food. Those of you who live in cities and towns, or even in the country, who do not depend on your own gardens or fields for all of your food or for your livelihood do not usually realize that we might all starve if we did not take measures to save our food from the critters.