Tower of Babel

[oldsailor29]

Sorry, I mistakenly posted on the wrong forum, the original thoughts forum. Since I have no original thoughts, I decided to move my posts to this forum.

[oldsailor29]

HEY OLD SALIOR29

WHEN you said that the sons of GOD took the women

with out regard IN GEN chap 6 ver 2 it says they(meaning

the sons of GOD) took wife's for themselves of all whom

the chose it sounds like they chose many wife's

then in GEN Chap 6 ver 4 yes it does say that

in those days and afterward but like I told CAROLAA

that Goliath had 4 brothers and they were all

the same size and Goliath was 9 feet tall

also when the spies check out the land of ISRAEL

10 said there were giants in the land

now I HAVE not read the book of Enoch so I don't

what it is talking about but I DO NOT see how these

verse can be talking about the devil angels

[oldsailor29]

HEY OLD SALIOR29

WHEN you said that the sons of GOD took the women

with out regard IN GEN chap 6 ver 2 it says they(meaning

the sons of GOD) took wife's for themselves of all whom

the chose it sounds like they chose many wife's

then in GEN Chap 6 ver 4 yes it does say that

in those days and afterward but like I told CAROLAA

that Goliath had 4 brothers and they were all

the same size and Goliath was 9 feet tall

also when the spies check out the land of ISRAEL

10 said there were giants in the land

now I HAVE not read the book of Enoch so I don't

what it is talking about but I DO NOT see how these

verse can be talking about the devil angels

It sounds to me like the sons of God took many wives of their choosing, against the wishes of the women. This was such a heinous sin that the earth had to be cleansed. This is one of the reasons God flooded the earth.

Yes Goliath was one of the sons of Anak, as I have been led to understand. This family of Giants were slain by David and his army. There were amalgamations before the flood, the product of which was destroyed in the flood. And there were amalgamations after the flood with similar results, relative giants were produced by these forbidden marriages, and God handled it differently.

So, before the end, we can expect to see more amalgamations between fallen angels and women. Given the present size of humans, I would expect the giants would be around 12' or more tall.

[oldsailor29]

Just moving my post to this topic so if someone wants to answer it, they won't have to post only their original thoughts.

I'm not sure what you are saying here dgrimm60, but I will try to explain my point.

I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Rich and I are clearly not on the same page here. However, I don't think either one of us said that the giants were angels. That is clearly a misunderstanding. "Sons of God" refers to divine beings, which means direct creations of God.

A question was brought up about the post flood DNA at the time of the tower, and someone said it was all from Noah's family. I merely pointed out that the Sons of God, i.e. fallen angels who raped and impregnated women before the flood, were still around to add their DNA to the mix before they were building the tower of Babel.

Then carolaa said she didn't believe that was true.

Then I said the book of Enoch chs. 6 & 7 says they were the fallen angels. And Dr. Rich said something about Sumerian text, with which I am not familiar. Maybe that is where the book of Enoch came from, I don't know.

What happens sometimes in the Bible is, some things are just a little too rough for the sensitivities of people, so the editors would substitute less offensive words or in this case a less offensive interpretation. One well known substitution is the word "feet," in place of a word for genitals, like in a description of angels with 3 pairs of wings, one pair of which covered their "feet."

Most people would probably say that the sons of God were righteous men, and daughters of men were unrighteous women. This would seem to make sense, except the text says the "sons of God" took the ones they wanted, without regard for what the women wanted. It just seems to me that righteous men wouldn't force the women against their will. And it just makes more sense, that the "sons of God" spoken of there were fallen angels.

This fits so well when I remember the context. It was not a peaceful time on earth. People were committing all kinds of sins. Some things they did were so evil that even some descendants of Cain refused to participate.

Anyway dgrimm60, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say, but I hope this clears up any misunderstanding of my post for you.

[Woody]

Sorry, I mistakenly posted on the wrong forum, the original thoughts forum. Since I have no original thoughts, I decided to move my posts to this forum.

Don't feel bad. I really doubt that ANY of us have any truly 'original' thoughts.

[oldsailor29]

So are you saying Noah's wife was one of the Nephilim, or that she was descended from them?

No. I thought I said they were destroyed in the flood. I also think I said that more nephilim, i.e. giants, were conceived after the flood.

[Lutz13]

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."(1 John 3:1-2)

This is my understanding of the topic of Sons of God:

The sons of God were of Seths line and mixed with daughters of men. Whom came from the line of Cain. What then happened was a lot of compromises and corruption. Oil and water do not mix. The same is happening today. You see a lot of people get married and one usually follows the others belief. This happened and people started to reject God. By rejecting God they hardened their hearts and could no longer hear His voice. Without Gods voice there is not much restraint.

[oldsailor29]

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."(1 John 3:1-2)

This is my understanding of the topic of Sons of God:

The sons of God were of Seths line and mixed with daughters of men. Whom came from the line of Cain. What then happened was a lot of compromises and corruption. Oil and water do not mix. The same is happening today. You see a lot of people get married and one usually follows the others belief. This happened and people started to reject God. By rejecting God they hardened their hearts and could no longer hear His voice. Without Gods voice there is not much restraint.

Jude seems to hold Enoch in high esteem, and the book of Enoch says these sons of God in Genesis 6 were fallen angels. And they were actual sons of God because He created them. All the beings God actually created were known as sons of God and divine beings. Through Adam and Eve, mankind was sons and daughters of God. Through Jesus Christ, if we believe, we are sons and daughters of God.

I know it is a difficult thing to believe, but wait and see if it happens again before the end of time. There are two interpretations of the Genesis 6 text. One is correct. The most evil one is the one I believe. God flooded the earth because of the evil. And many say it was because sons of Seth and daughters of Cain were attracted to each other, fell in love, and got married? That doesn't really sound very evil to me. Much more evil, and something for which I could imagine God flooding the earth, would be the amalgamation of man and beast. The fallen angels are referred to as beasts. Satan, the leader, is referred to as "the beast." Amalgamation between man and beast, does that sound familiar? And the book of Enoch says they were the fallen angels. It is either one or the other, and as I said, I now lean toward the most evil.

On the other hand, I could be wrong.

[oldsailor29]

I know the importance of rules, and I suggest that all discussion of the tower of babel be posted here instead of in townhall. That would seem more in line with the townhall rule.

[jasd]

>>And Dr. Rich said something about Sumerian text,<<

The Sumerian texts relate that men were created in a lab from a blending of the essence of [loosely] ‘sons of god’ and protohumans.

It may have been generations later that the ‘sons of god’ saw that the women of men were beautiful and leaving their natural habitation, that is, they kept not their first estate – “knew earth’s women”.

A commingling seems to have occurred after the flood as well, and per my supposition – will occur again – shortly.

Dan 2:43 ...they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men:

It is bruited that, using the latest generation of night vision devices, one sees – by the activities of formations of light blips – what appears to be a war being waged in earth’s near and farther space. If I could see that personally,

I’d probably be inclined to Biblical inferences...

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven:

One wonders how extensively that war will range or how long it will continue...

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots...

Chariots? how might they be identified? perhaps, they will simply be unidentified, as in, flying objects.

[Dr. Rich]

jasd, I see that you have done your homework. Not too many people would catch the Dan. 2:43 statement and I almost threw that in before. Yes, this is all quite interesting and I am still in the process of researching into this. thanks for your post!

[Lutz13]

I know it is a difficult thing to believe, but wait and see if it happens again before the end of time. There are two interpretations of the Genesis 6 text. One is correct. The most evil one is the one I believe. God flooded the earth because of the evil. And many say it was because sons of Seth and daughters of Cain were attracted to each other, fell in love, and got married? That doesn't really sound very evil to me. Much more evil, and something for which I could imagine God flooding the earth, would be the amalgamation of man and beast. The fallen angels are referred to as beasts. Satan, the leader, is referred to as "the beast." Amalgamation between man and beast, does that sound familiar? And the book of Enoch says they were the fallen angels. It is either one or the other, and as I said, I now lean toward the most evil.

Oldsailor, the things that did happen in Noah's day are already happening today.

"For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."(Matthew 24:38-39)

The majority of the people that I do know really well. They seem to just talk about women, drinking and food. Anything Godly is rubbish to them. The days of Noah are already here! The message is going out to the world, yet the world is too busy drinking, eating and marrying to even consider it. Just like the days of Noah...

[carolaa]

I think this text simply means that people were going about their business, unaware that destruction was coming.

[carolaa]

the sons of GOD did come from the lineage of SETH

and yes the daughters of men did come from the lineage

of CAIN

That's how it is commonly explained, but in reality I'm sure Seth was not the only godly child of Adam and Eve's. The many, many descendants of all their other godly children would have been included in the sons of God, not just Seth's descendants.

Probably there were other children of theirs besides Cain who turned away from God, as well. So I try to stay away from referring to the lineage of Seth vs Cain and just call them the followers of God and the rejecters of God.

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

So are you saying Noah's wife was one of the Nephilim, or that she was descended from them?

No. I thought I said they were destroyed in the flood. I also think I said that more nephilim, i.e. giants, were conceived after the flood.

OK, I saw what you posted about amalgamations before *and* after the Flood. I was thinking you were saying it was a genetic thing through Noah or his wife. I understand.

[carolaa]

I have a problem with your reasoning that these amalgamations were the reason for the Flood. I think it is a real stretch to say that they even happened at all, but I don't see any indication that these unions - whatever they were - were the cause of the Flood. The Bible simply says it was man's wickedness and that their thoughts were evil continually. It is not specific.

[carolaa]

Jude seems to hold Enoch in high esteem, and the book of Enoch says these sons of God in Genesis 6 were fallen angels.

How can you be sure that the book of Enoch was actually written by Enoch? Do you think Noah managed to get this book, or a copy, onto the ark in order to survive the Flood? Are there other antedeluvian books besides the book of Enoch, or is that the only one?

I have a feeling there must be good reasons why the book of Enoch is not considered canonical by the vast majority of biblical scholars.

[Dr. Rich]

Carolaa, You can read this book on line if you want. The author was thought to be Noah. When you read it, you should also read the account of creation and the flood in the Septaugint. It will open you eyes and provide a new perspective.